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I mean, they kind of have to be far off. You can't overturn your entire energy economy overnight. The problem is that this legislation should have been passed 50 years ago.
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Sep 10, 2018 22:16
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Yeah long term targets are the only way this poo poo gets done on the scale necessary. CA has nearly met the old 2020 target already (33%). But it's the early bits that are easy and the last bits that are difficult.
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Sep 10, 2018 22:42
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Slightly more ambitious targets would make this bill much more reasonable. 2045 is quite a bit slower than "overnight".
Lambert fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 22:45
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As others have pointed out, the late dates are for the last fiddly bits, the plan isn't to wait till december 31 2044 or whatever to even start. Most of it should be ahead of that date.
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Sep 10, 2018 22:52
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california will finally be carbon neutral just in time for the abandonment of most of the state due to water shortages
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Sep 10, 2018 22:56
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Shear Modulus posted:california will finally be carbon neutral just in time for the abandonment of most of the state due to water shortages Start investing in fireproof housing near Lake Tahoe
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Sep 10, 2018 23:03
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Hey I'm all for more aggressive targets requiring a wartime level national mobilization, but that requires the kind of deficit spending that's only possible when you can print money, which the state of CA can not currently do. So here we are.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:03
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Like, you can poo poo on Jerry Brown for any number of reasons but LOL at doing it because he didn't single-handedly win a war that was likely lost in the 80's.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:11
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Jaxyon posted:Like, you can poo poo on Jerry Brown for any number of reasons but LOL at doing it because he didn't single-handedly win a war that was likely lost in the 80's. https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1039274836567252994
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Sep 10, 2018 23:13
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loving death cult
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Sep 10, 2018 23:17
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Decarbonizing California before 2045 would actually be a massive and meaningful change in the future emissions potentials. Just in California's potential emissions alone, and that's ignoring the vanguard effect.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:21
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It's a giant leap ahead of everything else we've done or planned to do. But it's NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
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Sep 10, 2018 23:29
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So when will Silicon Valley start raining down cash on green energy startups? We're ready for a check any time...
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Sep 10, 2018 23:36
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bawfuls posted:So when will Silicon Valley start raining down cash on green energy startups? We're ready for a check any time... Sorry. Too busy inventing the next Juicero, but this time for freshly-squeezed blockchains.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:42
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bawfuls posted:So when will Silicon Valley start raining down cash on green energy startups? We're ready for a check any time... When somebody figures out how to turn green energy into an app.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:44
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Sydin posted:When somebody figures out how to turn green energy into an app. My dad's solar panels have an app to monitor how much energy they're producing. 
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Sep 10, 2018 23:46
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I predict they just fudge the numbers by moving poo poo off of the California books and giving the ugliest, most pollutiest crap to the federal government to manage.
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Sep 11, 2018 00:05
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El Mero Mero posted:I predict they just fudge the numbers by moving poo poo off of the California books and giving the ugliest, most pollutiest crap to the federal government to manage. https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/on-to-the-governors-desk-what-100-clean-energy-means-for-california quote:Furthermore, the text of the law stipulates that California must do this without causing additional greenhouse gas emissions elsewhere in the Western grid, meaning it cannot simply outsource fossil fuel combustion beyond state borders.
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Sep 11, 2018 00:15
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bawfuls posted:So when will Silicon Valley start raining down cash on green energy startups? We're ready for a check any time... thats what tesla was marketed as, and well... really though silicon valley and private capital are not interested in giving juicero and theranos levels of funding companies that do something as mundane as sell solar panels. you only get money from andressen horowitz if you are creating a new private market and anyone who ever wants to drink juice or test blood or buy a product online is going to give you a cut. so installing solar panels or a new low-cost way to insulate old houses? nah. a proprietary platform built off proprietary machine learning to predict and display power needs, costs, and generation capabilities of intermittent renewable power (like solar and wind) and a few local utilities are already relying on your demo version you arent charging for (yet) but are already locked in? you betcha
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Sep 11, 2018 00:26
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There's a bunch of solar panel companies and lots of htem have gotten venture capital actually. It used to be a darling of the stock picking thread. There's also companies that finance the industry-scale solar plants, and VC money can go there too. It's just not particularly focused on silicon valley.
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Sep 11, 2018 00:29
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yeah there are lots of goofy silicon valley funded energy startups https://kairospower.com/ https://x.company/makani/ https://www.natelenergy.com/ http://www.cyclotronroad.org/calwave/  Fig.1 - Makani's Wind Power Kite
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Sep 11, 2018 00:39
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Again, California has a metric gently caress ton of water, the issue is that the infrastructure to get it where it needs to go doesnt exist or would severly damage state and national parks. If it came down to it I would expect a fuckton of pipelines to starting being put up from norcal down. Also water rights and poo poo.
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Sep 11, 2018 00:51
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Telsa Cola posted:Again, California has a metric gently caress ton of water, the issue is that the infrastructure to get it where it needs to go doesnt exist or would severly damage state and national parks. If it came down to it I would expect a fuckton of pipelines to starting being put up from norcal down. Also, rivers are kinda important
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Sep 11, 2018 00:52
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Desalination 
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Sep 11, 2018 00:54
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More money for solar panels and wind kites and wave energy is great but even if all of those technologies are gangbusters we still need large scale energy storage to manage the transient nature of renewable production and consumer demand. Fund me you fuckers 
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Sep 11, 2018 01:10
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bawfuls posted:solar panels and wind kites and wave energy Admit it, you just started making up names
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Sep 11, 2018 01:12
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bawfuls posted:More money for solar panels and wind kites and wave energy is great but even if all of those technologies are gangbusters we still need large scale energy storage to manage the transient nature of renewable production and consumer demand. Fund me you fuckers The Energy Storage Train people got some local permits in NV and are aiming for a 50MW plant online in 2020  Of course there's the plan to turn Eagle Mountain into pumped storage:  
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Sep 11, 2018 01:18
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bawfuls posted:More money for solar panels and wind kites and wave energy is great but even if all of those technologies are gangbusters we still need large scale energy storage to manage the transient nature of renewable production and consumer demand. Fund me you fuckers replace Fresno with a gigantic flywheel
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Sep 11, 2018 01:19
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Trabisnikof posted:Of course there's the plan to turn Eagle Mountain into pumped storage: -worthy? I'm a layperson but I had the impression pumped storage was an acceptable method of evening out power generation/consumption. Or is it something about that particular mountain (in...Riverside County?)?
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Sep 11, 2018 01:33
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bitprophet posted:Why's this Nah its more I was teasing bawfuls about these other companies getting press/funding/etc. I have no idea if Eagle Mountain is a good idea or not. It does seem like it might happen. It is certainly in a place where no one would notice it, you can't ever really see into the pits from public land. But I always assume companies downplay water needs and aquifer risk. The train thing is certainly goofy too, but makes some (limited) amount of sense.
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Sep 11, 2018 01:38
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Desalination I think we'll get there eventually, it's just too expensive compared to other forms of obtaining drinking water at the moment. Also IIRC most current industrial desalination techniques discharge a ton of brine which can play hell with ocean life at high volumes.
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Sep 11, 2018 01:45
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desalination is insanely energy-intensive. using it as an actual water source only makes sense if energy is basically free and nonpolluting.
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Sep 11, 2018 01:48
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Shear Modulus posted:desalination is insanely energy-intensive. using it as an actual water source only makes sense if energy is basically free and nonpolluting. There has been materials science progress on that front with cheaper more efficient membranes. https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/05/alan-turings-contribution-to-chemistry-used-to-filter-salt-water/ Sydin posted:I think we'll get there eventually, it's just too expensive compared to other forms of obtaining drinking water at the moment. Also IIRC most current industrial desalination techniques discharge a ton of brine which can play hell with ocean life at high volumes. You can mitigate this somewhat by mixing the brine into (processed) waste water.
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Sep 11, 2018 02:50
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Shear Modulus posted:desalination is insanely energy-intensive. using it as an actual water source only makes sense if energy is basically free and nonpolluting. The environmental impacts in the area surrounding the plant can also be significant.
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Sep 11, 2018 02:51
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Desal is absolutely last resort. Purifying waste water is significantly lower in energy and doesn’t poo poo up the environment with intakes and brine.
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Sep 11, 2018 03:07
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Family Values posted:You can mitigate this somewhat by mixing the brine into (processed) waste water. A much less energy intensive option might be reclaiming that waste water, but I suppose that is a hard sell.
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Sep 11, 2018 03:09
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Toilet to Tap!! Toilet to Tap!!! (Its such a good idea.)
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Sep 11, 2018 03:11
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Reclaimation of waste water into potable tap water is the Holy Grail, but good luck getting the public on board despite the myriad of studies confirming that when properly treated it's just as if not more sanitary than tap from a normal freshwater source.
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Sep 11, 2018 03:16
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bawfuls posted:More money for solar panels and wind kites and wave energy is great but even if all of those technologies are gangbusters we still need large scale energy storage to manage the transient nature of renewable production and consumer demand. Fund me you fuckers Did Brown sign SB700? That at least extends SGIP through 2025 and is expected to add 3 GW of behind-the-meter storage. Not enough, but it's something.
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Sep 11, 2018 03:18
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fermun posted:Did Brown sign SB700? That at least extends SGIP through 2025 and is expected to add 3 GW of behind-the-meter storage. Not enough, but it's something. SB700 is still on his desk, it only passed the legislature last week. With that step forward, there are still shithead lobbying groups trying to restrict who can install those batteries, taking it away from Solar contractors and making it exclusively electrical work, license-wise.
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Sep 11, 2018 03:36
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