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Arcsquad12 posted:There is no way the bugs could have hit the earth with that level of precision. They're smart, but they're not that smart. If the bugs had a way to hit the earth why would they settle for a slow moving asteroid? Space is very very big. The brainy bugs are very smart. And distances never make sense. The Expanse I guess is realistic, but realism regarding the vast distances in space is very boring.
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Sep 9, 2018 22:00
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I still don't see why the bugs would even want to attack earth. It's not like the human colonists were much of a threat, so why would they want to invite more humans to them by launching a preemptive strike?
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Sep 9, 2018 22:06
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They didn't. The humans wanted the bug world and needed a justification for attacking.
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Sep 9, 2018 22:07
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Humans and bugs were both expansionist empires, so I don’t think the bugs are necessarily a peaceful species. The fact Mormons were warned against settling in that one area implies the Federation has charted definite spheres of influence.
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Sep 9, 2018 22:13
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The difference seeming to be that Bugs haven't been shown attacking other inhabited planets while the Federation is itching for a fight and using unauthorized colonization efforts to provoke the bugs.
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Sep 9, 2018 22:23
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Arcsquad12 posted:The difference seeming to be that Bugs haven't been shown attacking other inhabited planets while the Federation is itching for a fight and using unauthorized colonization efforts to provoke the bugs. I don't know why people are looking at the situation and saying "well, the humans have a fascist government that needs to manufacture an external enemy as all fascist governments do, but did you maybe consider that the external enemy they chose might actually be a real enemy?"
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Sep 9, 2018 22:32
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Arcsquad12 posted:I still don't see why the bugs would even want to attack earth. It's not like the human colonists were much of a threat, so why would they want to invite more humans to them by launching a preemptive strike? I vaguely remember a throwaway line in the book where it's pointed out that both sides are fighting over rocks that are of advantage to neither of them. Not that the film uses that much of the book.
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Sep 9, 2018 22:32
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Krispy Wafer posted:Humans and bugs were both expansionist empires, so I don’t think the bugs are necessarily a peaceful species. The fact Mormons were warned against settling in that one area implies the Federation has charted definite spheres of influence. The only people who tell us that the Bugs are expansionist is the government of the very biased Federation, which explicitly has an agenda.
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Sep 9, 2018 22:36
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Arcsquad12 posted:The thing about the Federation is that they are evil as gently caress but goddamn are they incompetent and arrogant. man, they really are a good stand-in for the USA!
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Sep 9, 2018 23:26
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Cavenagh posted:I vaguely remember a throwaway line in the book where it's pointed out that both sides are fighting over rocks that are of advantage to neither of them. Not that the film uses that much of the book. It uses the name. I'm tempted to watch some of the sequels. The last animated one seems to use power suits, so maybe it gets closer to the book the further along it goes. However I can say from experience you should never watch Starship Troopers 2.
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Sep 9, 2018 23:32
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Ravenfood posted:The only people who tell us that the Bugs are expansionist is the government of the very biased Federation, which explicitly has an agenda. Well that and the fact that the bugs are on multiple planets. So obviously they can travel through space somehow.
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Sep 9, 2018 23:39
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None of the sequels are worth watching. Starship Troopers 2 is a low rent ripoff of Aliens mixed with a zombie movie, and while 3 is "better", it's still pretty terrible and forgot that the first movie used blatant satire to mask subtle jabs, instead opting for terrible in your face satire. The two anime CGI films are pretty bad because they barely have a plot and the CGI isn't that great. I haven't seen the old 80s OVA that was based off of the Heinlein novel. The best Starship Troopers material that isn't the original film is the Roughnecks TV series, which, apart from some hiccups in the first campaign, is drat good 90s CGI kids cartooning. The Arachnids are a lot more openly antagonistic in the TV show, but it does adopt a lot more of the novel's cool concepts, like the Arachnids having allies in the Skinnies, as well as using Marauder suits as MI fire support.
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Sep 9, 2018 23:41
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Arcsquad12 posted:There is no way the bugs could have hit the earth with that level of precision. They're smart, but they're not that smart. If the bugs had a way to hit the earth why would they settle for a slow moving asteroid? Space is very very big. Why do you hate humanity so much? 
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Sep 10, 2018 00:32
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Humanity isn't evil in Paul Verhoeven movies, it is the institutions in control of humanity that are disgusting. We're not supposed to laugh at Rico or Dizzy or Carmen for the awful poo poo that happens to them; we're supposed to pity them for being trapped in a horrific system. None of the main characters in Starship Troopers (except Carl) are bad people, but they never had a chance to be anything other than cogs in an uncaring, horribly inept machine.
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Sep 10, 2018 00:48
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Krispy Wafer posted:It doesn’t matter if the Arachnids shot a plasma bolt into an asteroid field to push a rock into South America (they did). It’s whether the Federation let the rock hit on purpose. Check out any of the Dollop stories about Mormons and you'll find that they are the most tenacious fanatics out of any organized religion (that I have ever read/heard about). It's no less of a logical leap that Jesus went to spread the word to Saturn after handing off Latinum plates to the Jovian equivalent to John Smith than what they currently believe. If you could convince the majority of Mormons that Zion was actually on Mars, we'd have manned spaceflight to and from there within a decade.
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Sep 10, 2018 14:38
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muscles like this! posted:Well that and the fact that the bugs are on multiple planets. So obviously they can travel through space somehow. Huge difference between expanding to other planets and being an expansionist empire though.
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Sep 10, 2018 15:01
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They mention at one point the bugs destroyed a resort planet. So there's a case of Arachnids taking out a civilian world, although we have no idea if it was built close to Arachnid space or not. It's not such a stretch to imagine the bugs whole purpose in life is to expand and there are a limited number of good planets to live on. The Federation was going to have to fight them eventually no matter what and they manufactured a crisis to get world support behind it and then got their asses handed to them. Although invading the home world on the first try is a bold move indeed.
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Sep 10, 2018 15:13
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Zegema Beach was attacked after the failed assault on Klendathu, so it was technically a retaliatory strike once the Bugs figured that coexistence was no longer an option.
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Sep 10, 2018 15:45
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There is no way that the bugs had anything to do with the asteroid. They show that Earth and Klendathu are on opposite sides of the galaxy and the asteroid was traveling at sub-light speed. It was a freak accident that was a convenient excuse to a government already looking for a cassus beli.
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Sep 10, 2018 16:12
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Here's another thing I just noticed about Starship Troopers. All the main guys are from Buenos Aires, yet at high school they play a future version of American Football, instead of a future version of Soccer. In no way shape or form, I don't care how fascist and controlling the over-reaching government is, would Argentina give up playing Soccer in favour of Gridiron. Edit: I am an idiot who momentarily forgot simple Geography. I am worthy of nothing but scorn and ridicule. BrigadierSensible has a new favorite as of 16:55 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 16:20
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BrigadierSensible posted:Here's another thing I just noticed about Starship Troopers. Of course, which is why Argentinians now play american football.
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Sep 10, 2018 16:23
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Krispy Wafer posted:They mention at one point the bugs destroyed a resort planet. So there's a case of Arachnids taking out a civilian world, although we have no idea if it was built close to Arachnid space or not. You keep taking the movie at face value. Remember, the entire movie is a piece of Federation propaganda. We only hear stories (and versions there in) from official Federation sources. They have a vested interest in pushing a specific narrative that allows for more and more war.
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Sep 10, 2018 16:23
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Barudak posted:Of course, which is why Argentinians now play american football. I am an idiot. BOO me.
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Sep 10, 2018 16:49
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Inzombiac posted:You keep taking the movie at face value. Not the whole movie. What we're shown during Rico's story and not the newsreel reports is what is actually happening. It's the juxtaposition of the rampant propaganda in the Federal News Network against the horrific realities of warfare and fascism that gives the movie it's biting edge. Rico's story is framed as a Goebbels style propaganda coming of age story, but it isn't. It's a (contextually) real life equivalent of the kind of patriotic tales that Goebbels would adapt for his films, and that makes it more tragic. Rico goes from someone willing to question the system and feel doubt about his future to a hardened killer dedicated entirely to the state and service. But before we are allowed to let that pathos sink in, we get blaring news segments to drown out doubt and show that no, Rico giving up his independence to become a model citizen isn't a tragedy, it is a good thing! Would you like to know more?
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Sep 10, 2018 17:26
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I thought they explained the vast distances with worm holes or something. It's been awhile since I sat down and watched but didn't the asteroid that surprised the Roger Young kind of 'warp' into that zone?Inzombiac posted:You keep taking the movie at face value. Of course I'm taking the movie at its face value. It's not like there's a book or anything. Even fascist one-world governments get poo poo right as often as a broken clock. The bugs are a colonizing space-faring species and they're apparently close enough to Federation space that we can send a million or so troops to do drop into their backyard. It's not like anyone can negotiate with a bug so even if we ignored them they would eventually start sending spores to Federation planets. The Sky Marshall decided we need to deal with the problem now instead of later. Because you see...it's simple numbers. They have more.
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Sep 10, 2018 17:40
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Who says you can't negotiate with a bug?
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Sep 10, 2018 17:45
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Ravenfood posted:Who says you can't negotiate with a bug? A bug that thinks? Frankly, I find the idea o-fen-sive!
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Sep 10, 2018 17:55
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Arcsquad12 posted:Not the whole movie. What we're shown during Rico's story and not the newsreel reports is what is actually happening. It's the juxtaposition of the rampant propaganda in the Federal News Network against the horrific realities of warfare and fascism that gives the movie it's biting edge. Rico's story is framed as a Goebbels style propaganda coming of age story, but it isn't. It's a (contextually) real life equivalent of the kind of patriotic tales that Goebbels would adapt for his films, and that makes it more tragic. Rico goes from someone willing to question the system and feel doubt about his future to a hardened killer dedicated entirely to the state and service. But before we are allowed to let that pathos sink in, we get blaring news segments to drown out doubt and show that no, Rico giving up his independence to become a model citizen isn't a tragedy, it is a good thing! I forget where I read it, but someone said that Starship Troopers is the best satire of post 9/11 America that just so happens to have come out before 9/11
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Sep 10, 2018 17:59
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AFewBricksShy posted:I forget where I read it, but someone said that Starship Troopers is the best satire of post 9/11 America that just so happens to have come out before 9/11 Something that still seems unbelievable. In fact I’ve had to look this up a few times just to check. I guess if it came out after it would have been dismissed as libtard propaganda, rather than just ‘unfaithful to St Heinlein’.
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Sep 10, 2018 18:09
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AFewBricksShy posted:I forget where I read it, but someone said that Starship Troopers is the best satire of post 9/11 America that just so happens to have come out before 9/11 That was Cracked, of all places.
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Sep 10, 2018 18:21
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Starship troopers is a great action movie but it’s a fantastic comedy
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Sep 10, 2018 22:40
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Krispy Wafer posted:They mention at one point the bugs destroyed a resort planet. So there's a case of Arachnids taking out a civilian world, although we have no idea if it was built close to Arachnid space or not. If it's true. The bugs are never seen to have the ability to attack other planets. They apparently spread via 'spores', and the attack on Earth was claimed to be an asteroid 'shot out of orbit by Bug plasma'. Neither sounds particularly suited to a quick retaliatory strike. Another interesting point is that after the failure of the initial invasion the humans decided to 'clear out' the surrounding planets to 'weaken' Klendathu. But the bugs spread via spores, they have no supply lines and each of their planets is completely separate from the others. So destroying them will in no way weaken the home world, and is just another weak justification for wiping them out.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:01
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cracked was good, extremely past-tense but it had some good poo poo in spite of the horrible list format
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Sep 10, 2018 23:38
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Seanbaby still drops an article on there every once in a while and I'll not hear anyone say a bad word about him. 
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Sep 11, 2018 03:13
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EDIT: nevermind, not opening this can of worms, but Seanbaby is Extremely Not Good
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Sep 11, 2018 03:21
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Fat Chicks in Party Hats has aged incredibly well I don't know what you mean
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Sep 11, 2018 04:05
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BrigadierSensible posted:Here's another thing I just noticed about Starship Troopers. Remember, all the main characters are whiter than white, and the movie even says "nothing lives in what was once called the Latin Paradise." We don't see a Latin Paradise. We just see lots of white kids, even though they have the last names of Rico, Flores, and Ibanez. Argentina may be the whitest of the South American countries, but it's not that white. Something happened to keep that post-WWII European immigration going. Also, we tend to forget that during WWII Argentina was a fascist country that was technically neutral, but only declared for the Allies and declared war on the Axis in March of 1945. They were Axis sympathizers until we bullied them into joining the Allies. They would have welcomed an Axis victory. MichiganCubbie has a new favorite as of 05:04 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 05:02
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MichiganCubbie posted:Remember, all the main characters are whiter than white, and the movie even says "nothing lives in what was once called the Latin Paradise." We don't see a Latin Paradise. We just see lots of white kids, even though they have the last names of Rico, Flores, and Ibanez. Argentina may be the whitest of the South American countries, but it's not that white. Something happened to keep that post-WWII European immigration going. Oh come on, they’re not THAT White.  A few of them have Latino names at least.
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Sep 11, 2018 09:00
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Starship Troopers is either the dumbest smart movie or the smartest dumb movie. It's a fun movie to debate about, especially how it compares to the novel and how it has a completely different message despite having similar broad strokes.
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Sep 11, 2018 09:10
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Disclaimer: The Fifth Element is my favorite movie of all time and I rewatch it constantly. It's full of little moments, but one I somehow just noticed is from early on. When Korben is in his apartment talking to his mom, he lights up a cigarette with a match and the camera lingers on the single match left in the package. (Given the linger I'm not sure this counts as subtle but I just noticed it.) In the end when they're trying to activate the stones the last match is the one they end up using.
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Sep 11, 2018 10:12
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