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Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

ChickenWing posted:

Hey so to whoever posted that big fuckoff effortpost on the other page, that was really cool and good and I have upped my healing game because of it. Also thanks to the posters who helped me out with GCD weaving, which has given new life beyond "ACN-scathe" to Ruin II.

My next question is - how do you efficiently swap between your healing target and your DPS target? Thus far I've been using a combination of focus target on the tank and clicking. F-keys feel a little far for casual use. These both break down further in trials, where I obviously can't focus both tanks and F8 is simply too far for any real use. At this point my habit is pretty firmly set on just clicking the character in the party list - is there something more efficient I should be using for snap heals (i.e. trying to get in before a tankbuster), or do I just need to get really quick on the draw with clicking?

Mouseover macros are a thing, not sure if people actually use them or not (I don't actually play this game between expansions).

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Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
Macros are really clunky in this game, *especially* for skills that are on the global cooldown, which heals are.

oh no blimp issue
Feb 23, 2011

If I remember correctly macros don't input buffer at all, so you can't mash that key to have it come out instantly

Choyi
Aug 18, 2012

FutureCop posted:

This is a bit of a weird question, but does anyone remember how dungeons played at launch? A lot has changed over the period of this game and some things I take for granted now are things I can't believe didn't exist in the first place (like AOE markers). Also, when I started this game it was my first time actually getting into dungeons proper in an MMO: tanking, healing, all that jazz.

Nowadays, most dungeons are pretty simple: tank gathers up all the enemies and the dps AOEs them to death. While you'd think that this type of strategy would only work because everyone is wearing powerful armor that stays powerful when item synced, it still seems to work just fine with even gray gear.

Back in the day I remember it being a bit more complicated: I remember people doing small pulls, sleeping/mezzing enemies, using potions and so on. Was this because it was necessary (as in, did enemies used to hit harder or aggro differently) or was this just people being unfamiliar and experimenting/carrying over tactics from older mmos like EQ?

Basically, I'm wondering how much the game changed versus how the people changed.

This is more a thing that newer MMOs have gone away from design wise, even back in 2.0 crowd control wasn't necessary or used.
In early 2.0 it was more or less the same rush trough the dungeons as it is today, one exception was that you didn't need to kill trash, just a specific couple mobs to progress, rest of the mobs where locked out of boss rooms (devs later nerfed this and made you have to kill more mobs per dungeon area to progress).

I remember that as soon as me and my friends had some of the ilvl70 gear from the first non capped tomestones that we started speedrunning dungeons, and it was actually even faster then the average runs today, once geared it took 10ish min for either WP and AK on a good run (in premade parties).

Game always let you do what it does today, hell SE even nerfed speed running more and more as game continued to develop, it was more that people where both new to the game as well as carrying with them experience how things worked in previous MMO they played.

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


Reminder that in 2.X Holy and Flare didn't have damage drop off on additional targets.

Philonius
Jun 12, 2005

Blockhouse posted:

Evil Hydaelyn seems like a weird twist for the sake of a weird twist

We have no reason to believe she's good though. From the WoD storyline we learned that going full retard on light wrecks a world just as surely as darkness will. Sure, she helps you fight primals and such, but those sustain themselves by stealing aether directly from Hydaelyn, so that could be a simple matter of self-preservation.

Maybe they're setting the story up for a Babylon 5 'get the hell out of my galaxy, both of you' moment.

Veks
May 12, 2012

OOOOOOH MYYY GOOOOOOOOOOOOD

WrightOfWay posted:

Reminder that in 2.X Holy and Flare didn't have damage drop off on additional targets.

Im still salty about this change :mad:

FutureCop
Jun 7, 2011

Have you heard of Fermat's principle?

SettingSun posted:

By launch I assume you mean 1.0 since I'm 90% sure 2.0 had aoe markers. I was not a player of 1.0 (I avoided it due to the bad press) but 2.0 was wild. I vividly remember Amdapor Keep at launch as a tank: single group pulls were a requirement since enemies took forever to kill and hit like trucks. We used kill orders and the BLM if we had one would sleep enemies low on that list and people avoided aoe as to not wake them. Not to mention that the durability loss from dying was a big deal since gil was very hard to come by at that time. Titan HM was the hardest content a casual player would probably do. It required Savage level coordination since even a single mistake was often punished with a wipe.

I actually quit the game because of Titan HM and didn't come back until HW.

When you say 1.0, do you mean before the realm reborn era? I only got in once realm reborn came out, so that's what I'm talking about.

Oh man that's bringing some of the memories back: good to know it wasn't just me being crazy. I remember having to number mobs that we pulled for kill order as a tank to kill one-by-one and yeah, BLM sleeping mobs not currently being hit and nobody doing any AoE. I, too, remember Titan HM being insanely crazy to deal with as well; I particularly remember the add phase being really difficult to keep aggro as you needed to stack them or something.

For the AOE markers back then: maybe it was more that we only had simple markers in fewer cases: they weren't the fancy ones that grow from the center to show you the time left to get out and such. I'm just remembering vaguely there being a lot of quality-of-life stuff and boss design that we have now which we didn't have back then. Like I said, this is mostly me trying to piece together things with my terrible memory.

I just wish I could play it again: I wonder how much of it was me being bad and everyone being new and how much was balance patches/lag/different design affecting things.

I also feel like I've gone through all the stages of tank with this MMO: I went from being a newbie trying his best to being a prima-donna to now being a calm professional (or so I think).

FutureCop fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Sep 11, 2018

UHD
Nov 11, 2006


after the naaru nonsense going on in wow I really really hope hydaelyn is “good but flawed” and not “I was evil all along! *twirls moustache*”

wasn’t the legend that zodiark was uninterested in balance and that’s why he and crystal mom had a falling out

I legit don’t remember

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



oh no blimp issue posted:

If I remember correctly macros don't input buffer at all, so you can't mash that key to have it come out instantly

Not to mention that you have to mash the key for it to come out at all, due to the aforementioned input buffer issue. I hope they do add in some kind of mouseover option for 5.X.

Ouhei
Oct 23, 2008

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Veks posted:

Im still salty about this change :mad:

Same, Holy is stilly pretty boss, but man it was incredible before.

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic




CC/target numbering/etc. was utilized more in general at 2.0 launch and for some time afterwards. Once it was clear that it wasn't really necessary, BLMs using sleep, etc. grew rarer and rarer. I think it was probably due to gearing too because everyone was new then and you didn't have crafters churning out gear.

Also Hydaelyn can't be bad, there's no organized religion worshipping her.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


Can someone explain to me how a PLD in Sword Oath managed to keep up with my enmity generation in Defiance on Striking Tree just now? I'm pretty sure they Shirked me and I still ended up way behind them and couldn't catch up. I eventually gave up and dropped Defiance entirely and let them MT... while still in Sword Oath.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Arist posted:

Can someone explain to me how a PLD in Sword Oath managed to keep up with my enmity generation in Defiance on Striking Tree just now? I'm pretty sure they Shirked me and I still ended up way behind them and couldn't catch up. I eventually gave up and dropped Defiance entirely and let them MT... while still in Sword Oath.

They outgeared you, in all likelihood. PLD has no non-Rage of Halone combo in 2.X content, so they just passively generate a shitload of enmity doing their basic combo.

Philonius
Jun 12, 2005

Arist posted:

Can someone explain to me how a PLD in Sword Oath managed to keep up with my enmity generation in Defiance on Striking Tree just now? I'm pretty sure they Shirked me and I still ended up way behind them and couldn't catch up. I eventually gave up and dropped Defiance entirely and let them MT... while still in Sword Oath.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/wiki/enmity

Tankstance gives you 2.7x enmity generation, but the enmity combos have between 6 and 7x enmity generation. So if all you do is spam your enmity combo in dps stance, you'll outaggro someone doing dps skills in tank stance.

A paladin at level 50 has gently caress all for dps skills, so will be spamming rage of halone. The only way to keep ahead is to spam your enmity combo, basically.

Saint Freak
Apr 16, 2007

Regretting is an insult to oneself
Buglord
Because 50 is a hosed up tank hellscape where warriors have a an offensive combo but no offensive stance and paladins have an offensive stance but no offensive combo.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


So I had no chance of keeping hate, roger.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Vermain posted:

Not to mention that you have to mash the key for it to come out at all, due to the aforementioned input buffer issue. I hope they do add in some kind of mouseover option for 5.X.

Well, that explains why I was having so many problems with the macro.

Colander Crotch
Nov 24, 2005

I- I don't even know what you just called me!

Arist posted:

So I had no chance of keeping hate, roger.

Yeah, at level 50 it is better to just let the paladin tank, or you are going to sit there fighting them for Aggro for the entire time. I am just glad that there is a fellow tank out there that actually paid attention to something like that. I got a Titan HM where I had a DRK that stayed in grit after I pulled and kept pulling hate with provoke and ultimatum. When I called him out on it and still pulled hate from him in Sword Oath he claimed that I "provoked twice".

So at least there are people that realize what is going on.

Brainamp
Sep 4, 2011

More Zen than Zenyatta

Arist posted:

So I had no chance of keeping hate, roger.

At 50 as a WAR there's basically no point to doing anything except storm's eye combo followed by butcher's block combos until storm's eye runs out and repeat. You don't have deliverance or fell cleave, meaning that building up gauge is pretty meh.

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004

Have there been any more details announced about the anniversary Eternal Bond ceremony coming in the next patch? Me and my boyfriend are huge romantic nerds and loved the little trek across Eorzea, so it'd be kind of a letdown if it was just the ceremony part.

Orthodox Rabbit
Jun 2, 2006

This game is perfect for empty-headed dunces that don't like to think much!! Of course, I'm a genius... I wonder why I'm so good at it?!
To advance this quest: 0/1: To prove your devotion to one another you have to each take a turn watching the other person die in Eureka and letting the rez timer run out.

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

Philonius posted:

We have no reason to believe she's good though. From the WoD storyline we learned that going full retard on light wrecks a world just as surely as darkness will. Sure, she helps you fight primals and such, but those sustain themselves by stealing aether directly from Hydaelyn, so that could be a simple matter of self-preservation.

Maybe they're setting the story up for a Babylon 5 'get the hell out of my galaxy, both of you' moment.

Doesn't the WOD storyline end with the Avatar of Hydaelyn's will heading off to fix things by absorbing back the light that destroyed their world? Like, yeah I guess that's just fixing her own mess and all but it seems she's doesn't want overwhelming light to erase universes.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009

Should've just let it happen then merge that world with the Void. Turn problems into solutions.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Nessus posted:

I could see Hydaelyn turning out to be closer to "neutral" but it would seem like a pointless subversion to just make her evil, as well as making the Ascians, like, correct? I feel like the WoD probably did more than enough to demonstrate that you can have too much of a good thing.

I could see Hydaelyn being a sort of "good-intentioned but harmful" entity.

oh no blimp issue posted:

She’s playing the long game.
She’s nurturing the planet until it’s ripe and she’s going to feast on the bountiful aether.

She's basically like Airy from Bravely Default.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Sep 11, 2018

DizzyBum
Apr 16, 2007


I'll be surprised if the subject of "light is not necessarily good" isn't touched upon further in 5.0.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!
The problem is aside from the Warriors of Darkness everyone talking about "hey light is bad too!" is like absurdly evil

Rainuwastaken
Oct 30, 2012

Another blue ribbon for Hecarim.
Hydaelyn seems to be a pretty standard benevolent force. It's possible that they'll make her into this loving-yet-malevolent entity from beyond the stars, but I don't see it happening. I'd be more willing to listen to what the Ascians had to say if they weren't so transparently evil it's funny, but the one member I considered somewhat worth trusting (Elidibus) has kinda been up to some really uncool stuff lately, so....

Was crystalmom dormant for a long while before the game started, or is that just something I made up in my head along the way? I got the impression that she hadn't really been doing much of anything until we juiced her up with crystal goodness fairly recently, barely managing to speak to us and basically being blasted into a coma after tanking Ultima.

e: Midgardsormr is about as neutral as you can get considering he's from SPAAAAAAACE so the fact that he pretty clearly thinks she's chill lends a lot of credibility IMO.

Rainuwastaken fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Sep 11, 2018

oh no blimp issue
Feb 23, 2011

SyntheticPolygon posted:

Doesn't the WOD storyline end with the Avatar of Hydaelyn's will heading off to fix things by absorbing back the light that destroyed their world? Like, yeah I guess that's just fixing her own mess and all but it seems she's doesn't want overwhelming light to erase universes.

That's what she told us!

Blockhouse posted:

The problem is aside from the Warriors of Darkness everyone talking about "hey light is bad too!" is like absurdly evil
I was going to say this, the story that it's perhaps trying to tell kind of falls flat when literally everyone trying to balance light and dark is a massive dickhead?

oh no blimp issue
Feb 23, 2011

Rainuwastaken posted:

e: Midgardsormr is about as neutral as you can get considering he's from SPAAAAAAACE so the fact that he pretty clearly thinks she's chill lends a lot of credibility IMO.

Midgardsormr's worries seem pretty detatched from ours, so perhaps he doesn't particularly care either way? She gave him refuge from Omega and that's probably enough for him?

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Blockhouse posted:

The problem is aside from the Warriors of Darkness everyone talking about "hey light is bad too!" is like absurdly evil

"Can you not see that Hydaelyn's presence is a blight upon this star? Now please excuse me, it's time for my daily meal of puppies and baby chocobos."

Rainuwastaken
Oct 30, 2012

Another blue ribbon for Hecarim.

oh no blimp issue posted:

I was going to say this, the story that it's perhaps trying to tell kind of falls flat when literally everyone trying to balance light and dark is a massive dickhead?

Wait, who else is trying to balance the two? As far as I know the only two people we've talked to about the general light/dark system are the Warriors of Darkness (owned) and....maybe the Ascians? But I thought their mission statement was, "nah gently caress you, go team darkness 100% of the way, sink it all into the void".

ParliamentOfDogs
Jan 29, 2009

My genre's thriller... What's yours?
Yeah, I’m pretty sure the only reason the flood of light happened is because she got knocked the gently caress out shielding you from Ultima. She only recovered as quick as she did because Middy forcefully took her protection off of you and I think she is being propped up by Minfilia now too? But yeah she woke up, and went to go take care of the problem as soon as she could. All that poo poo is still on the Ascians.

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002


In fairness, the Ascians are the only ones who have been around long enough to have a perspective on it and actually express an opinion. If it weren't for the fact that crystal mom is mum and Middy loves giving evasive and mysterious answers to everything, it would be easier to just ignore what Team Evil has to say.

Astroniomix
Apr 24, 2015



I don't remember where I read it but I remember seeing somewhere that Midgardsormr was actively dying when he landed and Mom had to work to heal him. I think Omega mentions it as the reason it couldn't find him.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Rainuwastaken posted:

Wait, who else is trying to balance the two? As far as I know the only two people we've talked to about the general light/dark system are the Warriors of Darkness (owned) and....maybe the Ascians? But I thought their mission statement was, "nah gently caress you, go team darkness 100% of the way, sink it all into the void".

Elidibus (the white robed Ascian) and Urianger have touched on it relating to what the WoD's said.

ZiegeDame
Aug 21, 2005

YUKIMURAAAA!
So I stopped playing this shortly after 3.1 dropped, but I'm considering starting up again. Is there any sort of incentive program currently going for returning players?

oh no blimp issue
Feb 23, 2011

ZiegeDame posted:

So I stopped playing this shortly after 3.1 dropped, but I'm considering starting up again. Is there any sort of incentive program currently going for returning players?

The incentive is that it’s a good game

oh no blimp issue
Feb 23, 2011

Rainuwastaken posted:

Wait, who else is trying to balance the two? As far as I know the only two people we've talked to about the general light/dark system are the Warriors of Darkness (owned) and....maybe the Ascians? But I thought their mission statement was, "nah gently caress you, go team darkness 100% of the way, sink it all into the void".

As mentioned, Elidibus in particular seems to want balance. Urianger also states a preference for it at one point iirc, and he’s a little bit of a dickhead

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Farg
Nov 19, 2013
HEY

wanna raid savage this patch? wanna do it with a cool nice fun group of pals that are smart and nice? then you wanna join up with The Randy Savages!!!

The Randy Savages are looking for a melee dps to replace the cowardly bastard who left us after sigmascape. We are uh, midcore I guess. We raid Tuesday/Thursday from 9pm-12pm EST. We've been at it since Heavensward and have been clearing content while its current ever since, basically.

good things about us:
1. we aren't big lovely weirdos
2. great puns
3. we're bad, but in like a 'haha oh you guys, anyways lets clear the fight now' fun way
4. fourth thing

anyways if you to raid this tier (and beyond??) with some real quality salt of the earth folk, respond to this post. or post in our thread on catgirls bargain. or @ me on catgirls bargain discord, you get the idea

edit: or contact grant farglen in game, or Axle Stukov

Farg fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Sep 11, 2018

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