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jokes on them i've been driking my own piss for years
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Sep 11, 2018 03:50
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A professor I had who's speciality was water mangment also pointed out that if we actually fixed our infrastructure we would be looking at least 30% decrease in water usage. So uh maybe lets do that.
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Sep 11, 2018 04:33
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Reclamation is fine, but there will still be losses that need to be replaced. And that’s only applicable for water that’s captured, which agricultural uses usually aren’t. And yes, there are efficiency gains to be made. And legacy water rights that need to be renegotiated. I think technological solutions are also worth discussing. Everyone get real mad at me now.
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Sep 11, 2018 04:43
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Family Values posted:Reclamation is fine, but there will still be losses that need to be replaced. And that’s only applicable for water that’s captured, which agricultural uses usually aren’t. We can only pick one solution, that is how it works.
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Sep 11, 2018 04:46
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Telsa Cola posted:A professor I had who's speciality was water mangment also pointed out that if we actually fixed our infrastructure we would be looking at least 30% decrease in water usage. So uh maybe lets do that.
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Sep 11, 2018 04:57
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Sydin posted:Reclaimation of waste water into potable tap water is the Holy Grail, but good luck getting the public on board despite the myriad of studies confirming that when properly treated it's just as if not more sanitary than tap from a normal freshwater source. The gently caress is the problem? I’ve been using reclaimed water for well over a decade and it’s fine and Nevada is no California on the infrastructure front. This should be easy for you guys. Is it just (hold with me now) California elitism or what? Maybe we can teach you guys the art of passing water reclamation if you can teach us how to get people to vote for energy deregulation and municipal-owned utilities. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 05:00
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CopperHound posted:Does 'fix' also include changing the canals into pipes/lining and covering them? Nah though that would be great it was more our current water infrastructure is both outdated and also poorly maintained so if you fix it you retain some absurd amount of acre feet of water that otherwises just gets lost.
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Sep 11, 2018 05:01
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Craptacular! posted:The gently caress is the problem? I’ve been using reclaimed water for well over a decade and it’s fine and Nevada is no California on the infrastructure front. This should be easy for you guys? lol I'll rather die of thirst than drink las vegas tier tap water
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Sep 11, 2018 05:04
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Pomp posted:lol I'll rather die of thirst than drink las vegas tier tap water But it’s not because of the reclaimed part.
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Sep 11, 2018 05:06
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If reclaimed water has less jet fuel than the stuff i grew up drinking then sign me up
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Sep 11, 2018 05:09
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Craptacular! posted:But it’s not because of the reclaimed part. I mean, that is mostly true, but at least part of the disgusting taste of Vegas water is from the chlorine that they use to disinfect it. Also, Reno/Tahoe water is the best tap water that I have had. Nevada is more than just Vegas.
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Sep 11, 2018 06:46
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Trabisnikof posted:Nah its more I was teasing bawfuls about these other companies getting press/funding/etc. I have no idea if Eagle Mountain is a good idea or not. It does seem like it might happen. It is certainly in a place where no one would notice it, you can't ever really see into the pits from public land. But I always assume companies downplay water needs and aquifer risk. The fact that there are all these sorta-goofy-looking storage ideas still bouncing around like trains pushing up hills and cranes lifting cement barrels, should give you some indication as to the unsolved nature of this engineering challenge.
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Sep 11, 2018 07:19
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How well would pumped hydro stations stand up to earthquakes? IANAE but it seems like the sort of thing you'd want to build in a geologically stable area.
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Sep 11, 2018 14:21
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:How well would pumped hydro stations stand up to earthquakes? IANAE but it seems like the sort of thing you'd want to build in a geologically stable area. Well the dam building boom of the mid 1900s was before plate tectonics became scientific consensus so there has been quite a lot of retrofitting going on lately. But we have a much better understanding of faults now, plus engineering and technology is better. For example we’ve recently installed some fancy pipelines that can resist fault displacement in the Santa Clara Valley. However dams are pretty bad for aquatic ecosystems so thats why the battery proposals so far are for existing infrastructure like the Hoover Dam.
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Sep 11, 2018 14:42
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:Well the dam building boom of the mid 1900s was before plate tectonics became scientific consensus so there has been quite a lot of retrofitting going on lately. But we have a much better understanding of faults now, plus engineering and technology is better. For example we’ve recently installed some fancy pipelines that can resist fault displacement in the Santa Clara Valley. The drawing of the pumped hydro station on the last page looked like it was built inside of a mountain. It seems like it would be a lot harder to proof a facility like that against an earthquake. Then again it's been about fifteen years since my last undergrad geology course.
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Sep 11, 2018 14:48
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Telsa Cola posted:Again, California has a metric gently caress ton of water, This is 100% not true. Please read Cadillac Desert.
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Sep 11, 2018 16:57
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:This is 100% not true. Please read Cadillac Desert. And? California has massive amounts of water. It is just California has an even bigger agricultural industry.
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Sep 11, 2018 17:02
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:This is 100% not true. Please read Cadillac Desert. Regardless of how much we have now, we should probably plan on having less of it available in the future. Big, expensive pipelines from the Sacramento River south won't help when the Sierra snow cap is gone.
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Sep 11, 2018 18:43
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:This is 100% not true. Please read Cadillac Desert. I have. It is not the end all be all book for water in California my dude. California has more than enough water. Its just either not accessible for the general public where they need it (Socal) or/and a metric gently caress ton of it gets lost due to infrastructure leaks and mismanagement (LA). Fixing either of the two problems (with infratstructure updates being preferable) would basically solve the problem for the immediate future. But yeah plans should be made for having less water in the future because California gets hit by reaaaallly nasty droughts historically. There are going to be a poo poo ton of areas that are hosed though since they pumped out all the ground water and the land subsides and or collapses because of that. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 19:41
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Telsa Cola posted:I have. It is not the end all be all book for water in California my dude. California has more than enough water. Its just either not accessible for the general public where they need it (Socal) or/and a metric gently caress ton of it gets lost due to infrastructure leaks and mismanagement (LA). Ugh these is the most annoying oversimplifications I’ve read in a while. Where are you getting this information from?
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Sep 11, 2018 20:10
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:Ugh these is the most annoying oversimplifications I’ve read in a while. Where are you getting this information from? Ill dig up the journal articles when i have time. In the meantime what are your exact critcisms about it being over simplifed? I realize you cant just rip up all of LA's water infrastructure and update it in a short period of time. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 20:12
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If we banned almond and pistachio trees we'd solve the water shortage overnight and permanently. Right?
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Sep 11, 2018 20:34
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Leperflesh posted:If we banned almond and pistachio trees we'd solve the water shortage overnight and permanently. Right? The Central Valley almond farms account for as much water usage as LA and SF combined so I'd probably be a good start!
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Sep 11, 2018 20:35
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Almond trees use the same amount of water as any other tree, according to an ad from the Almond Growers of California that I head for two years straight on NPR, every morning and every afternoon on my commute. Pretty sure any attempt to go after almonds would run into a giant wall made of money and bought legislators.
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Sep 11, 2018 20:38
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There's actually one single farming couple that uses more water than all of the entirety of LA homes
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Sep 11, 2018 20:44
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FCKGW posted:There's actually one single farming couple that uses more water than all of the entirety of LA homes
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Sep 11, 2018 20:52
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Yay for prior appropriation.
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Sep 11, 2018 20:55
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FCKGW posted:There's actually one single farming couple that uses more water than all of the entirety of LA homes Water rights are crazy bullshit, nationalize water.
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Sep 11, 2018 20:59
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but what about the sanctity of contracts??
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Sep 11, 2018 21:03
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wow cant believe that the 1% that own as much wealth as the bottom 90% or whatever are also responsible for the majority of consumption
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Sep 11, 2018 21:07
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Don't forget that Nestle just got a new permit to pump tens of millions of gallons of California water to turn into e. This is by the way after Nestle had been extracting water for bottling for years with a long expired permit. The state got sued over letting it happen, at which point they went "yeah you're right, the permit is expired. So we'll just give them a new permit, but only if they fund environmental studies on the impact of their water extraction and pinky-swear to be more environmentally friendly." 
Sydin fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 21:09
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LA County Board of Supervisors just passed a rent freeze for unincorporated areas of LA County and a restriction on evictions without just cause. Pretty cool.
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Sep 11, 2018 22:19
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Leperflesh posted:If we banned almond and pistachio trees we'd solve the water shortage overnight and permanently. Right? No. TBH, almonds and other nut trees are not a bad use of water, if you have it. The crop is valuable. The real crime is the upriver assholes who literally flood their fields to grow alfalfa hay because their water is free, and then ship the hay to China. Virtually no value is created, and everyone downstream is screwed.
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Sep 11, 2018 23:29
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Telsa Cola posted:Yay for prior appropriation. yep California water law is so hosed, but we probably need a constitutional convention to fix it
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Sep 11, 2018 23:30
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Almond trees use the same amount of water as any other tree, according to an ad from the Almond Growers of California that I head for two years straight on NPR, every morning and every afternoon on my commute. The line I hear from inlanders is that nut tree production is making lots of yeoman farmers who are otherwise screwed over by big ag prosperous and that it isn’t fair when computer touching fucks on the coast vote to take away their livelihoods.
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Sep 11, 2018 23:32
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ProperGanderPusher posted:The line I hear from inlanders is that nut tree production is making lots of yeoman farmers who are otherwise screwed over by big ag prosperous and that it isn’t fair when computer touching fucks on the coast vote to take away their livelihoods. California produces a huge amount of the nation's fruits and vegetables, it's not purely vanity or greed. But at the same time, every bit of our water problems are tied to agriculture. If Sacramento brought down the hammer and slashed the water "rights" that go to farmers, we'd ultimately have less farmers and less crops grown in California, and that's the main tradeoff we need to think about. But then again, gently caress the alfalfa farming leeches who are literally selling California's water to China in the form of cheap and lovely hay that can be grown anywhere. They only exist because they get things for free that everyone else has to pay for.
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Sep 11, 2018 23:58
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IIRC farming is something like 2% of CA's GDP, the equivalent to a couple year's growth at best. Your water is being sucked away so that a handful of people can be mega rich and a bunch of migrant workers can die in the desert.
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Sep 12, 2018 00:07
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predicto posted:No. TBH, almonds and other nut trees are not a bad use of water, if you have it. The crop is valuable. We don't have the water. Most of the almonds and pistachios are sold to china too. It's a cash crop, profitable enough that in recent years, despite the drought, the big corps have been planting lots more. Alfalfa is definitely the worst offender in terms of water use vs. yield, but the nut trees are the worst in terms of total water used in the state. California will definitely have more droughts. We can still be a massive agriculture state if we focus on growing stuff that is much more water-efficient, and also by the way, is food America actually needs vs. nonessential luxury crops we sell overseas. To accomplish this we will have to reform the way water rights work, monitor and tax/cap/charge for ground water extraction, and then possibly also set some kind of quotas or maximums on the worst offender crops.
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Sep 12, 2018 01:17
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Almond trees use the same amount of water as any other tree, according to an ad from the Almond Growers of California that I head for two years straight on NPR, every morning and every afternoon on my commute. I’m getting to the point where I unironically think the guillotine is the solution to every problem like this. I can’t decide whether I should be leaning in or logging off.
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Sep 12, 2018 01:45
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I thought that California was one of the best places in the world to grow nuts, water hijinks notwithstanding? Am I misinformed?
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Sep 12, 2018 01:51
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