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Helsing posted:I mean just look at the full interview with Clinton there. She's so delusional she seems to genuinely believe that Russian social media manipulation has more responsibility for turning Americans against Obamacare than the sky high deductibles or laughably inadequate coverage you get under those mandatory-to-purchase On that the rich people not getting things note, her belief might very well be correct in the scope of her social circles. They're plugged into the same social media as everyone else, but Obamacare's problems don't hurt them personally.
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Sep 20, 2018 18:51
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:There's nothing to be wrong about, I don't get the adversarial "those posters must be rich The flaw is that you really obviously have a model of how the world works that is wrong, and that the wrongness of it is repeatedly brought to your attention in the form of you saying or assuming wrong things and having that pointed out to you, and that while you have the good sense to admit the mistake and change your opinion about that one very specific thing (better than nothing!), at no point do you ever question the model itself that led you to say and believe stupid poo poo. So you continue to say and believe stupid poo poo, and until you figure out how to update your mental model of reality, that's just going to be your thing: saying and believing stupid poo poo. SAD! (But, again, you're still better off than most Trump thread posters, so don't feel too bad. There's hope for you yet, HY!L.)
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Sep 20, 2018 18:53
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" posts. I'd love to see the examples and make fun of them if you have them, but to me it just seemed petty.
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Full disclosure y'all: I'm in the "shitload of money" group. I do my best to betray my class, although I have to admit it's at least partially out of naked self interest: those guillotines are coming.
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Sep 20, 2018 18:55
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Look I am an enlightened and progressive educated person, of course I know that slavery is ripe for abuse but let's not pretend that all slave labor is inherently abusive and that not one person has ever been enslaved in conditions that were an improvement over whatever they were doing before
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Sep 20, 2018 19:00
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:It's not a flaw and in fact is the one thing that keeps you from being just another insufferable Trump thread poster. I'm sure your world model is impeccable and never needs adjustment  MSDOS KAPITAL posted:Full disclosure y'all: I'm in the "shitload of money" group. I do my best to betray my class, although I have to admit it's at least partially out of naked self interest: those guillotines are coming.  Ytlaya posted:Yes - a while back when the Trump tax cut was passed that thread suddenly filled with countless posts indirectly revealing that the poster made a poo poo ton of money. There are also several recognizable posters who have explicitly mentioned making a lot of money or having millionaire family (specifically naming the posters in this context is kinda weird so I'm not going to do that). I must have missed that, as it seems quite distasteful. I do know a guy that fits this bill however. He was bragging about how his tax cut would allow him to flip another house or something like that. I just assume that most people aren't like him.
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Sep 20, 2018 19:11
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:(But, again, you're still better off than most Trump thread posters, so don't feel too bad. There's hope for you yet, HY!L.) In his defense, I also had a period where I strongly believed in capitalism and would tell myself I was part of the global 1% and had it so much better than the rest of the world. This was also when I was living at the end of a dirt road in an illegally built, rotting, and rat infested house where the septic tank would flood the yard and get into the well water after a hard rain. Capitalist propaganda is total in our society and it can take a whole hell of a lot to unfuck your brain.
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Sep 20, 2018 19:27
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I literally want the government to take people’s money. Steal it tax, I don’t care, ya’ll got wayyy too much.
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Sep 20, 2018 19:35
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I'm sure your world model is impeccable and never needs adjustment
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Sep 20, 2018 19:35
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Helsing posted:It's also possible to recognize that point 1 was vastly more significant than point 2 and that the reason point 2 gets so much more attention and airtime is precisely to make people ignore point 1. It's literally right there in the book 'Shattered' - within hours of Clinton's election loss her top aids had already been instructed to start making the case that they only lost because of Russia. If Clinton had run a half decent campaign, the Russian stuff wouldn't have mattered. But she didn't and it did. If you look at stuff like the GOP Convention Position change on Russia and Trump's man-love for Putin, and the excellent NYT piece on all of this, it's clear that the Russians did the election manipulation, but as I said Clinton ran a shittastic campaign. Even the slogan was mind-numbingly stupid.
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Sep 20, 2018 21:35
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:Full disclosure y'all: I'm in the "shitload of money" group. I do my best to betray my class, although I have to admit it's at least partially out of naked self interest: those guillotines are coming. If the 2000 collapse had happened a few months later, I would be in your class too. 144 Restricted Shares.
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Sep 20, 2018 21:36
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Trump being involved with the Russian Mafia and sleazy gangsters like the Devos family is an issue, but considering Trump and Hillary were within a coinflip of eachother the prior spring, you would have to be incredibly delusional to think Trump winning by appealing to the most land relied on Russian interference beyond paying for his campaign.
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Sep 20, 2018 21:59
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I mean when it's as close as it was you can point to any particular small thing and say "this is what cost her the election", but they're all pretty fungible.
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Sep 20, 2018 22:03
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Would socialism really help the poor? Would ending the drug war really change incarceration rates disproportionately harming minorities? Would even tepid support for regulations preventing the consolidation of disparate banking industries who's overlapping interests lead to unprosecuted widespread criminal malfeasance directly initiating a crash really help the economy? Instead of talking about reforming capitalism, maybe... ...Maybe we should be talking about reforming racism. Maybe it's not the system that needs a revolution. Maybe its our hearts. makes u think im so white lol
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Sep 20, 2018 22:23
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The issue with the "global 1%" idea is that it often isn't actually true if you look at quality of life, since a person can make more money in the US and have a lower quality of life (due to higher expenses and having to pay for more things) than someone in another developed country who makes less money. I would also argue that there's a threshold that only the top ~20% or so in the US pass where a person no longer has significant concerns for the material well-being of themselves or their family. Regarding "liberals with distaste/irritation towards the radical left" being disproportionately well-off, I think that it stems from a combination of things. The first is cultural - many of these people run in "educated white-collar professional" circles, and that comes with its own set of cultural values/assumptions (namely, what sort of opinions and ways of expressing them should be taken seriously). These cultural values/assumption make them default to a gut feeling that the left - who claims there's a relatively simple solution and does so in a passionate/emotional manner - is wrong/immature. There's also the fact that they don't really understand the sense of urgency/emotion the radical left expresses, because they don't feel that sense of urgency themselves (due to their own secure/comfortable circumstances). But because they claim to hold the same values and (broadly) goals as the radical left, and the radical left is asserting that they can be far more quickly and effectively accomplished, they need some sort of excuse for not taking their side. I think this is why they get so incredibly irritated (often to the point of being more hostile to left-wing posters than "polite" conservative ones); they aren't comfortable arguing against someone who isn't obviously evil/wrong (like conservatives), and perhaps on some level they realize that something is "off" with their own opinions. Another thing that factors in is that there's often a superficial agreement about the state of the Democratic Party, such that the people will see the things the left says and think "jeez, I agree the Democrats aren't great, but why do you go on and on about it?" I think this is where the privilege angle factors in a lot. For people who personally feel some urgent desire for positive change, the Democrats are the only people who can reasonably deliver it, so it makes perfect sense to have them be the primary focus. But for these folks, they're looking at things from a more detached perspective, and what they see is "holy poo poo, the Republicans are obviously so much worse! we should talk about them more!" I would almost have sympathy for that perspective, if not for the fact that the vast majority of US liberal discourse already focuses on that; it's like Republicans who complain about the War on Christmas or something. There is no shortage of condemnation of Republicans, so it comes off as extremely ridiculous when they throw a fit about the minority of left-wingers who prioritize turning the Democratic Party into something vaguely resembling an actual left-wing political organization. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Sep 20, 2018 |
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Sep 20, 2018 22:31
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Cut the bullshit, I'm not racist, I'm a Democrat, I voted for Hillary twice for fucks sake. You have no right to raise my taxes, have you seen what the Republicans are offering me, I might as well vote for them if you're going to keep calling me racist for having stuff.
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Sep 20, 2018 22:36
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I hit that tone so accurately it made glass houses shatter.
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Sep 20, 2018 22:40
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I mean when it's as close as it was you can point to any particular small thing and say "this is what cost her the election", but they're all pretty fungible. WaterTight Compartments on the Titanic. It wasn't just one thing. And as a former marketing person, "I'm With Her" is an AWFUL slogan.
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Sep 20, 2018 22:45
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Sneakster posted:
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Sep 20, 2018 22:46
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VideoGameVet posted:WaterTight Compartments on the Titanic. It wasn't just one thing.
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Sep 20, 2018 22:47
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Sneakster posted:Yeah, but all of those things have thing one thing in common. All but one. :-)
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Sep 20, 2018 22:51
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Attempting a Lost Cause narrative only 2 years after a joke election between the 2 least popular candidates in history for a crooked capitalist stooge too conservative 10 years ago in a race against someone who was marginally weary of the gay agenda and who's dream was entitlement reforms is a bold move. I like it.
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Sep 20, 2018 22:54
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VideoGameVet posted:All but one. :-) You're a crafty and audacious character, the best traits of a good spinman. I could use you in my propaganda corp. r u an ally?
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Sep 20, 2018 23:03
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Sneakster posted:Being able to win against a candidate who's campaign was quite plausibly a runaway accident to piss on a golfing associate? What I mean is, the election was so close ... due to the massive incompetence of the Clinton Campaign, that the last watertight compartment was the Russians. I ran a lot of Facebook campaigns. The way the Russians ran their campaigns, was frankly so drat good that I wonder if Jarad's company helped. Basically really good use of the "look-alike" stuff on Facebook to leverage that spend nicely. If you're interested on how that works: https://www.disruptiveadvertising.com/social-media/facebook-lookalike-audiences/ Note: Before you accuse me of being a DNC troll I can tell you that I contributed more to Sanders than the total sum of all other political campaign donations in my sad but long life.
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Sep 20, 2018 23:30
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Ehhh. I don't think you can claim that the last compartment was the Russia stuff - particularly given Comey decided to do his bullshit when he did it in what was ultimately yet another completely avoidable own-goal on the part of Clinton. It's really most fair to say that a number of little things, Russia included, that would not have been relevant if Hillary Clinton was capable of being anything other than a dumpster fire added up to hand a close election over to Trump in an election that, as has been noted, should never have been close to begin with. It's somewhat ironic that Russia is only "relevant" because it never should have been relevant.
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Sep 20, 2018 23:45
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I hate the term ally most of all because I first heard about it from my desi associate talking about the stupid and patronizing new speak in vogue with out of touch white liberals, before I saw crackers actually using earnestly using it like it wasn't a parody. Doesn't help that the first time I saw it out in the wild was by people who threaten to support fascists to protect their property interests when pressed. VideoGameVet posted:I ran a lot of Facebook campaigns. The way the Russians ran their campaigns, was frankly so drat good that I wonder if Jarad's company helped. She didn't run a terrible campaign, it was well executed in many ways, the mobilization of the patronage networks and propaganda corps and all. She was a terrible candidate, with terrible regressive views that were too conservative in 2008, had a terrible history, a terrible platform, and out of sync with most of the population. It wasn't the messaging, it was the message. Getting her a spot to dance on Ellen sooner wouldn't have changed that.
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Sep 21, 2018 00:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWxnkadRbak
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Sep 21, 2018 03:05
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gentlemen, it's been an honor
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Sep 21, 2018 03:07
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I really hope that's not the independent thought alarm.
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Sep 21, 2018 03:09
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poo poo, what happened?
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Sep 21, 2018 04:26
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Magres posted:poo poo, what happened? 2nd great DnD Purge. Pour one out for the fsllen and drink up me hearties!
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Sep 21, 2018 04:28
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I’m genuinely surprised I’ve survived both purges tbh. Also most of the people in the previous argument got wiped out so I’ll take this opportunity to discuss how people treat Briahna Joy Grey really inappropriately on social media. Way past the point of not agreeing, into really racist and sexist garbage. The most recent iteration of this was some hotep guy (look it up) attacking her for dating an Asian man and hurling a lot of just really mean sexist abuse at her, and then passing it on to his non-trivial number of followers. Joy Grey, for those not familiar, writes for the Intercept and Current Affairs among other places, and is well-known for her writing on race and class. The representation of the arguments she makes and their content is the big thing at issue, but a lot of people turn it into personal attacks on her. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 05:00
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Lightning Knight posted:I’m genuinely surprised I’ve survived both purges tbh. Not just this but, like, straight-loving-up creeping through her social media and trotting out photos and poo poo. It was loving  as hell.
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Sep 21, 2018 05:03
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Oh Snapple! posted:Not just this but, like, straight-loving-up creeping through her social media and trotting out photos and poo poo. It was loving Oh yeah it was real bad. I’m phone posting and I didn’t want to link it so it doesn’t spread more but it was pretty shocking.
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Sep 21, 2018 05:09
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friendbot2000 posted:2nd great DnD Purge. Pour one out for the fsllen and drink up me hearties! Huh? Where was this?
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Sep 21, 2018 05:19
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If you go into the Leper’s Colony they all have the same ban reason and were all recent.
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Sep 21, 2018 05:24
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Lightning Knight posted:If you go into the Leper’s Colony they all have the same ban reason and were all recent. Oh wow, jeez. I'm kinda surprised I escaped that, since it seemed like a whole bunch of people from "both sides" (of the arguments that tend to occur in D&D anyways) were selected.
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Sep 21, 2018 05:30
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we are evidently the less annoying few. high fives all around
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Sep 21, 2018 05:41
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Ytlaya posted:Oh wow, jeez. I'm kinda surprised I escaped that, since it seemed like a whole bunch of people from "both sides" (of the arguments that tend to occur in D&D anyways) were selected. yeah im surprised you missed getting banned too
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Sep 21, 2018 08:24
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Ytlaya posted:Oh wow, jeez. I'm kinda surprised I escaped that, since it seemed like a whole bunch of people from "both sides" (of the arguments that tend to occur in D&D anyways) were selected. only bad posters were banned.
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Sep 21, 2018 10:07
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Sneakster posted:I hate the term ally most of all because I first heard about it from my desi associate talking about the stupid and patronizing new speak in vogue with out of touch white liberals, before I saw crackers actually using earnestly using it like it wasn't a parody. I'd vote for terrible message, terrible campaign and terrible candidate.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:04
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