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Kruller posted:What if part of the plan is raising more gods into a new pantheon of a 5th color? If 4 is the "most real", then 5 would be even better, right? We've got red, yellow, blue, purple, and formerly green, but there's no orange. Or if we go with the rainbow, indigo as well. That sorta fits with 7 books planned, all of which have a different color on them. Color Spray has 7 colors as well. This providing the background and story hook for The Desaturating Seven. (A kids book about 7 goblins that suck the colors from rainbows. It got turned into a concept album this year by Primus.)
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Sep 21, 2018 19:33
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I think the main snag here is that the gods have to get along in order to successfully create a world and not just another Snarl. Right now, the Dark One probably isn't in the kind of mood where he can successfully complete a major engineering project with his least favorite people.
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Sep 21, 2018 19:51
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I still don't trust the backstory we have about the Dark One. The conscious, willing decision of the gods to create a bunch of sentient, free-willed races as nothing but experience fodder for their clerics to level up on doesn't really square with the vibe I've been getting from Thor since we arrived here at the Graveyard of Worlds. I think there's way more to the story that the Dark One has left Redcloak in the dark about, and I get the feeling Thor's about to let the other boot drop. On a related note... is this the first time we've seen the Dark One himself (or a representation of him, at least) appear in the actual online strip?
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Sep 21, 2018 20:16
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Lol if they didn't design goblins with souls, so the dark one has no power if the world ends and they all die
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Sep 21, 2018 20:23
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W.T. Fits posted:I still don't trust the backstory we have about the Dark One. The conscious, willing decision of the gods to create a bunch of sentient, free-willed races as nothing but experience fodder for their clerics to level up on doesn't really square with the vibe I've been getting from Thor since we arrived here at the Graveyard of Worlds. I think there's way more to the story that the Dark One has left Redcloak in the dark about, and I get the feeling Thor's about to let the other boot drop. Jirix's speech about his post-death, pre-resurrection experience included a crayon drawing of him. Magnus Manfist posted:Lol if they didn't design goblins with souls, so the dark one has no power if the world ends and they all die That moment also shows that this isn't the case, unless Jirix made the whole thing up.
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Sep 21, 2018 20:27
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Kruller posted:What if part of the plan is raising more gods into a new pantheon of a 5th color? If 4 is the "most real", then 5 would be even better, right? We've got red, yellow, blue, purple, and formerly green, but there's no orange. Or if we go with the rainbow, indigo as well. That sorta fits with 7 books planned, all of which have a different color on them. Color Spray has 7 colors as well. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0632.html Hmm...
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Sep 21, 2018 20:34
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Oh man. Roy and the Oracle must be gods too!
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Sep 21, 2018 20:36
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If you squint hard enough to make your head hurt, their names combine to make "cerulean".
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Sep 21, 2018 20:40
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We know that Oracle cant be a god becourse every god with green essence was killed by Snarl, duh!
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Sep 21, 2018 20:44
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W.T. Fits posted:I still don't trust the backstory we have about the Dark One. The conscious, willing decision of the gods to create a bunch of sentient, free-willed races as nothing but experience fodder for their clerics to level up on doesn't really square with the vibe I've been getting from Thor since we arrived here at the Graveyard of Worlds. I think there's way more to the story that the Dark One has left Redcloak in the dark about, and I get the feeling Thor's about to let the other boot drop. The gods had been trying pretty much every possible permutation of world they could think of, so it seems totally reasonable that with this one they decided to make some trash mobs. It's a pretty simple concept to come up with when you make a world with inhabitants who need to constantly fight to gain personal worth. Thor may seem like a nice, caring guy, but Some of the other gods, not so much. I wouldn't be surprised if Odin was on the same page as Thor, but of course he's not going to have the talk with Durkon, because Thor is Durkon's patron. You don't bogart your son's souls.
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Sep 21, 2018 21:37
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is the dark one supposed to be purple.... or black? because if we already have cyan, yellow, and magenta....
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Sep 21, 2018 21:44
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Well. The goes my theory that there have been thousands of Dark One-equivalents who died with their worlds. I guess being a pantheon of one really was a big, world-changing event.
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Sep 21, 2018 22:09
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Parahexavoctal posted:is the dark one supposed to be purple.... or black? I don't think Rich is going for a corny RGB or CMYK reference with this. The Mesopotamian pantheon's color is a red closer to orange than to magenta anyway.
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Sep 21, 2018 22:24
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So that must be what's different this time: this is the first time the Gods have created a species of intelligent (or at least soul-bearing) creatures that none of them claimed who managed to raise up their own gods. The Elves did in this world, but they're a PC race and are (presumably) divided up by the pantheons as per their regular standing agreement, and since most of them live in the West in the Elven Homelands, they joined that Pantheon out of protocol. Instead, the Goblins live everywhere, explicitly scattered throughout the world for the PC races to kill, and they were explicitly created as quest fodder and no pantheon claims their souls when they died- before they managed to raise up their own god, the Dark One, who was unaffiliated with any pantheon by virtue of the fact that none of them claimed the Goblins. So the Dark One is unique to all the previous incarnations of the world. Rich has been dangling the plot twist without even telling us what it is for: the goblins already are equal to the other races. What have we seen the PC races accomplishing that the goblins haven't? They built a good civilization in the mountains east of Azure City. We've seen goblins of most classes. They're disadvantaged but they're no longer limited as 'monsters'. Redcloak might even be... a PC. I don't know yet why the plan isn't "blow up the world and remake it with 4 colors", but Rich will probably explain it to us.
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Sep 21, 2018 22:54
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Well. The goes my theory that there have been thousands of Dark One-equivalents who died with their worlds. I guess being a pantheon of one really was a big, world-changing event. Probably all previous new gods just naturally aligned with an existing pantheon. Something like the dark one basically requires a a giant mass of mortals that are getting nothing out of the existing order of gods. Something like literal xp fodder that KNOW they're literal xp fodder, ONLY able to be the product of a barrel scraping self aware fantasy parody world.
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Sep 21, 2018 22:58
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The Purple pantheon (nice alliteration there, Rich) is going to be the Dark One, the puppets and a certain sexy shoeless God of war.
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Sep 21, 2018 23:09
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Man, every single one of the most recently comics are just complete jaw-droppers. It's awesome. There's gotta be more to this, though. Is this world the first time new gods have ever been raised from mortal ranks? Or do gods who were created from mortals end up dying when their world does? If the answer to both of those is no, you'd think the pantheons would be way bigger. Also, the Dark One's whole story was never discussed in the comic proper, right? Just SoD? I remember the scene where Redcloak killed Tsukiko covered the most immediately plot-relevant stuff, so this next comic is probably going to be similar exposition about the Dark One. Either way, it'll be interesting to see how that story looks from Thor's point of view.
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Sep 21, 2018 23:10
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Parahexavoctal posted:is the dark one supposed to be purple.... or black? Yes. Red, 'White'(usually coloured with a hint of yellow), Blue, 'Black'(Usually done as purply). Green's 'dead' for a certain value of dead, given it usually represents Nature.
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Sep 21, 2018 23:45
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Sky Shadowing posted:I don't know yet why the plan isn't "blow up the world and remake it with 4 colors", but Rich will probably explain it to us. My first guess on that is that the Dark One wouldn't be safe from the Snarl, as a newly-minted god in a pantheon of one. I'm not sure why exactly, but Thor presents the Dark One's existence as an opportunity the world is providing, rather than something that's already been achieved, which would be the case if the Dark One was sure to persist in future.
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Sep 21, 2018 23:53
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The conflict I expect is being presented is that, as a pantheon-of-one god created by mortals, rather than a (ex nihilio?) god that then creates mortals for sustenance, the Dark One is going to have an radically different viewpoint and set of priorities from the other gods. Consider than the Dark One is literally a personification of the goblin people lamenting their lot given as provided by the other gods. There's a real chance that he's not going to be willing to play ball with the other pantheons under any circumstances.
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Sep 22, 2018 00:36
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W.T. Fits posted:On a related note... is this the first time we've seen the Dark One himself (or a representation of him, at least) appear in the actual online strip? I think he's shown up in one of the crayon drawings before, but it might have been in one of the prequel books. I don't think we've seen him in the present of the main strip yet. Edit: He's on page 44 of Start of Darkness. ultrafilter fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Sep 22, 2018 |
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Sep 22, 2018 00:55
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In crayon form, the Dark One appeared in 704 when Jirix talked about dying and speaking with the Dark One: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html
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Sep 22, 2018 01:05
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There's also a picture of The Dark One in Redcloak's study (though it is sorta occluded by Tsukiko's speech bubble). http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0828.html
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Sep 22, 2018 07:45
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Schwarzwald posted:The conflict I expect is being presented is that, as a pantheon-of-one god created by mortals, rather than a (ex nihilio?) god that then creates mortals for sustenance, the Dark One is going to have an radically different viewpoint and set of priorities from the other gods. The Dark One's whole plan is to play ball with the other gods in the re-ordering of the current world or the remaking of the next one. He explicitly wants to use the threat of the Snarl as a negotiating tactic to get in at the table. Thor rocking up and saying "hey the threat of the Snarl means we want you at the table" would literally short-cut his plan to instant success.
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Sep 22, 2018 08:09
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Which is why I still expect both him and Redcloak to be royally pissed when they learn of the Godsmoot. He could have cast the tiebreaking vote and shortcut his plan even more, albeit, of course, at the cost of the current world.Sky Shadowing posted:So that must be what's different this time: this is the first time the Gods have created a species of intelligent (or at least soul-bearing) creatures that none of them claimed who managed to raise up their own gods.
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Sep 22, 2018 09:02
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I think the key was the self aware parody. You need your xp fodder getting a raw deal to be AWARE they're xp fodder getting a raw deal.
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Sep 22, 2018 09:10
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Sky Shadowing posted:Redcloak might even be... a PC. He was also unique from birth with purple skin. Wonder if there's more to that, with the recent colour theory and all.
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Sep 22, 2018 09:22
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"Quiddity" is a real word, and it's literally Latin for "whatsit".
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Sep 22, 2018 09:27
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Lt. Lizard posted:We know that Oracle cant be a god becourse every god with green essence was killed by Snarl, duh!
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Sep 22, 2018 09:36
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Toplowtech posted:The gods who were killed were super big on Oracles. So he may have inherited some "vibe" just not the godlike power. Yeah but he canonically gets his powers from Tiamat. I don't think the individual magical effects of mortals are as related to the divine essence as people are saying since every one we have seen is more or less a different colour.
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Sep 22, 2018 10:43
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My Lovely Horse posted:By the way, according to how the Dark One's origin is told in SoD, he definitely was one when he was just a goblin warlord. Or at least had class levels and possibly a prestige class. That might just be a quirk as to how humanoid enemies were made in 3rd edition.
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Sep 22, 2018 11:20
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I think there's more to The Dark One's color; his birth, or perhaps deification, is connected to the rifts somehow. There's a reason he's different from all the other Gods' creations.
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Sep 22, 2018 16:22
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:That might just be a quirk as to how humanoid enemies were made in 3rd edition. That might actually be an intentional subtext: 'enemy' races going from just being statblocks in 2e to have full PC rules and class levels in 3e also changed the calculus of killing them for xp.
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Sep 22, 2018 16:28
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I feel like The Dark One might put some value into the lives of his followers? Thor certainly manages to see some value in keeping the world around rather than canning it.
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Sep 22, 2018 16:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like The Dark One might put some value into the lives of his followers? Thor certainly manages to see some value in keeping the world around rather than canning it. Yeah, I think the Dark One isn't going to default to blowing up the world, given that he was born of this world. After all, his plan right now is to control the Snarl for blackmail purposes. If he was cool with just fridging the current world and being at the table for the next one, he wouldn't have bothered with Redcloak at all.
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Sep 22, 2018 17:41
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His Plan A is the succeed in gaining control of a rift to force concessions in this world after all.
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Sep 22, 2018 17:54
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But his Plan B is destroying it so he has a table at the next one. He explicitly recognizes that as a successful end game.
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Sep 22, 2018 18:01
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If he can force concessions without control over a rift, that might work too.
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Sep 22, 2018 18:03
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Yeah The Dark One is established as having a preference for keeping this world around, otherwise Redcloak would have been given the mission to destroy all the gates.
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Sep 22, 2018 18:27
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ultrafilter posted:If he can force concessions without control over a rift, that might work too. Given how important he's apparently turning out to be, this seems extremely likely, assuming Xykon doesn't screw the pooch for everyone. I'm not sure if I see Xykon or the Sunk-Cost-Fallacy-Personified Redcloak more as this role.
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Sep 22, 2018 18:43
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