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MonsterEnvy posted:But it does have a diverse team. And the only adventure with potential racism is Tomb of Annihilation. Which I have not seen a single person get offended by, and it is pretty much universally well received. (The worst criticism racism wise I have seen it get. Is that it is a little blind to what some might consider issues.) dude, people had legitimate issues with tomb of annihilation from top to bottom. and we went over them extensively in this very thread
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Sep 24, 2018 19:43
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Tomb draws from pulp and pulp is kinda inseparable from thorny stuff about colonialism, exoticizing, etc. It's not going to bother a lot of players, but it's not some grand step forward for tolerance either.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:47
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Arivia posted:Jesus Christ dude, this is not what you loving say in response to criticisms of representation in a product you like. This is why no one thinks you’re remotely non-biased about 5e. “Well I haven’t seen anyone be offended” is milquetoast oppressor poo poo and you can gently caress right off with it. The Vistani and Chult are leftovers from 1e and 2e. I could just put the D&D Team on here. Bart Carroll, Pelham Greene, Ari Levitch, Chris Lindsay, Jeremy Martin, Shelly Mazzanoble, Hilary Ross, Liz Schuh, Nathan Stewart, Greg Tito, Trish Yochum, Emi Tanji, Kate Irwin, Richard Whitters. Nehru the Damaja posted:Tomb draws from pulp and pulp is kinda inseparable from thorny stuff about colonialism, exoticizing, etc. It's not going to bother a lot of players, but it's not some grand step forward for tolerance either. This is pretty much it's case. Plus Chult has been around for more then 20 years.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:58
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Arivia posted:5e talks the talk, but doesn’t really walk the walk. There’s no actual efforts to make their games accessible and accepting of marginalized people. There’s just a bunch of tokenization. Actual efforts to be progressive would have diverse creators involved and not keep bashing their heads into lovely oppressive poo poo like all the racism that keeps cropping up in the adventures. This is... actually a pretty good take. I will say that the 5e community in general has been very good about inclusion of women but that has less to do with 5e and more to do with accessibility. And I'm not sure we can call that full stop for progressiveness in 2018.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:59
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Vistani and Chult are leftovers from 1e and 2e. Who the gently caress are any of those people? How do they make the game more diverse? What do they do? That's literally a list of names, it doesn't mean poo poo Bullshit. Chult wasn't Darkest Africa before Tomb's lovely writing, it was dinosaurs and apocalyptic death portents with jungle dwarves. Even if that was true, leftovers from previous editions doesn't justify them uncritically repeating them. The writers made the decision to include those racist stereotypes and in doing so made the game less inclusive. If you don't know how a text is explored for racism and other forms of oppression, then SHUT THE gently caress UP when someone else is doing it. You don't know poo poo MonsterEnvy, and your breathless continual defense makes the thread much worse.
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Sep 24, 2018 20:01
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"things that were bad in the past should not be changed when we have an opportunity" is a pretty lovely take imo. there's no reason for chult to be as terrible as it is when spears of the dawn exists
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Sep 24, 2018 20:01
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Mendrian posted:This is... actually a pretty good take. No, we can't call that full stop. Like even in the scope of a D&D like game, take a look at Pathfinder 2e. It opens with a page long discussion of running an inclusive table, going over everything you need to do in and out of game to make people comfortable. And it's right up there in the introduction, listed as the basic responsibilities of any player. Then Paizo is going through and trying to make the game's actual writing better, sloughing off the racist poo poo they wrote in the first edition and changing other things to make the game more inclusive. (For example, characters now have ancestries and not races.) It's not perfect, but man they're at least trying in a way 5e distinctively doesn't.
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Sep 24, 2018 20:05
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Is the Rogue Mastermind as garbage as it seems? I roped a bunch of my friends into playing a game and I handle all the character advancement and such, since they all enjoy playing but do not have any interest in pursuing this as a hobby. One of them made a rogue based on Richard Nixon, and the idea of the mastermind seems perfect. The execution seems incredibly boring, however. I'm thinking of just re-flavoring Scout, replacing the Nature and Survival bonuses with something more appropriate for a politico/criminal, and saying that he's an expert at ambush and surprise both in a fight and in a negotiation.
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Sep 24, 2018 20:06
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Vistani and Chult are leftovers from 1e and 2e. "I don't see why the Redskins should have to change their name and mascot, they've been that way for decades!"
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Sep 24, 2018 20:07
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Arivia posted:5e talks the talk, but doesn’t really walk the walk. There’s no actual efforts to make their games accessible and accepting of marginalized people. There’s just a bunch of tokenization. Actual efforts to be progressive would have diverse creators involved and not keep bashing their heads into lovely oppressive poo poo like all the racism that keeps cropping up in the adventures. This is A Good Post. The gaming community as a whole seems to have a lot of issue stepping back and taking an objective look at themselves. 5e is only progressive when compared to poo poo like Warhammer and 2e. When the core of the creator community are 98-100% old white guys ANYTHING that takes a half a step forward seems impressive. Making your Strahd Romani a little less stereotypical is not the same thing as not being racist. There are interesting stories to tell about colonization periods, ToA touched on some without bothering to actually confront the problems colonizers present. 5e is better. But it's such an incredibly low bar they should not be congratulated for taking 10 on a DC 2 Acrobatics check.
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Sep 24, 2018 20:09
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Farg posted:looked this up, hellyeah man thanks Also wizard has sick nasty cantrips. Minor Illusion - (probably the most useful non-combat cantrip in the game) Mage Hand - (A close second in usefulness. Also great for tying ropes onto the tops of holes/buildings or setting off traps from afar) Prestidigitation - Keep yourself clean/dirty, light small fires, create the illusion of objects that someone else wants. Message - Basically point to point short range twitter Giodo! posted:Is the Rogue Mastermind as garbage as it seems? I think college of whispers bard really fits the role you're looking for best. The bard also doesn't have to use an instrument. You can bring a component pouch instead if you think singing doesn't really fit with the sneaky mastermind role you're looking for. Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 20:43
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poorlifedecision posted:Rules in rpgs aren't based around the most logical or sensible thing. If they were HP wouldn't exist and everyone would just die of bloodloss and blunt force trauma after the first encounter. So, Warhammer Fantasy RPG?
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Sep 24, 2018 20:50
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Ironically 4e has moved away from instant death criticals so you can survive a hit or two, if not more. Also you can play a back alley surgeon good at healing bad stuff which is great.
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Sep 24, 2018 20:54
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ChaseSP posted:Ironically 4e has moved away from instant death criticals so you can survive a hit or two, if not more. Also you can play a back alley surgeon good at healing bad stuff which is great. You just got a copy of the 4e core book and it looks like they've improved a lot, but it still might be a little too fiddly for my group.
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Sep 24, 2018 21:07
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Actually I've just been reading the breakdown in the FATAL thread. Like I'd buy a warhammer product blind.
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Sep 24, 2018 21:11
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Arivia posted:Jesus Christ dude, this is not what you loving say in response to criticisms of representation in a product you like. This is why no one thinks you’re remotely non-biased about 5e. “Well I haven’t seen anyone be offended” is milquetoast oppressor poo poo and you can gently caress right off with it. As someone who would fall under the "diverse" category/have offensive stuff, I generally just shut up about it....cause if you do bring it up you get flooded with comments about being over sensitive and such. Better for my mental health to just suck it up\leave quietly any groups acting toxic.
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Sep 24, 2018 21:15
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Giodo! posted:Is the Rogue Mastermind as garbage as it seems? Mastermind and assassin are perhaps the best political roleplaying archetypes of the Rogue class in my opinion, but their fluffy goodness doesn't come until level 9. However if you're going to homebrew the Scout class then I would say that's probably better than anything the phb or Xan would give you.
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Sep 24, 2018 21:24
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Nazgul posted:Mastermind and assassin are perhaps the best political roleplaying archetypes of the Rogue class in my opinion, but their fluffy goodness doesn't come until level 9. However if you're going to homebrew the Scout class then I would say that's probably better than anything the phb or Xan would give you. Thanks, yeah. I'm just thinking of homebrewing the XGtE scout to change the two skills from Nature and Survival to like Deception and Persuasion or something.
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Sep 24, 2018 21:33
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Nazgul posted:Mastermind and assassin are perhaps the best political roleplaying archetypes of the Rogue class in my opinion, but their fluffy goodness doesn't come until level 9. However if you're going to homebrew the Scout class then I would say that's probably better than anything the phb or Xan would give you. Mastermind is hot garbage and the worst rogue subtype in a walk and assassin is not great. The Inquisitive does most of the same shtick as Mastermind but way better.
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Sep 24, 2018 23:00
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MonsterEnvy posted:But it does have a diverse team. MonsterEnvy posted:I could just put the D&D Team on here. Bart Carroll, Pelham Greene, Ari Levitch, Chris Lindsay, Jeremy Martin, Shelly Mazzanoble, Hilary Ross, Liz Schuh, Nathan Stewart, Greg Tito, Trish Yochum, Emi Tanji, Kate Irwin, Richard Whitters.        (Couldn't easily find any WotC images of Trish, Jeremy, or Hilary, but you managed to forget Mearls and Crawford so it probably evens out) Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 23:03
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Sep 24, 2018 23:15
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Bart Carroll looks fairly tan in a couple of those. Be generous and count him as only half a white guy.
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Sep 24, 2018 23:17
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mango sentinel posted:Mastermind is hot garbage and the worst rogue subtype in a walk and assassin is not great. The Inquisitive does most of the same shtick as Mastermind but way better. I'd argue that depending on the campaign assassin would be the most fun you've ever had. With the right DM you could use your disguise kit to great effect, posing as a servant or a guard or some nonessential as you work your way up to your target and loving murder him with a crit kill. It's great for a sprawling political campaign, not for a typical murderhobo instant gratification deal. Level 9 just gives you even more with that fake identity, but I'd sweeten the pot by homebrewing the idea that they could give up 25g and claim they've been working on a fake identity the entire time to make it more robust. Unfortunately Mastermind doesn't have a flow to it, more of a support role and the level 9 ability gives you nothing of use. Not like inquisitive who is a natural lie detector. The help action is nice, but a thief with magic initiate with healing hands would be a much better choice.
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Sep 24, 2018 23:54
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All of Inquisitive's abilities are either useless or redundant, or become redundant two levels after you get them.
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Sep 24, 2018 23:59
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Hey guys, here to talk about ho- Holy poo poo the thread is full of bullshit. Anyway the "Tournament" went about as well as you'd expect. First round was just fighting monsters, they didn't stand a chance. Second round was pretty much hosed of course. In the end my barbarian got pummeled to death while not being able to do anything, thanks to the 6 vengeance pally/hexblade/lore bard throwing a 5th level Bestow Curse on me to force me to make Wisdom saves to use my action at all that turn. The problem is that after-the-fact and reading the spell carefully. I should've been able to bonus action rage to keep on trucking, or cunning action to hide. And also still -move- since the spell only talks about your action. Not like I'd have ever hit him, fucker took a Cloak of Invisibility. Though I think the DM managing our table doesn't understand how Invisibility doesn't mean you can't notice where someone is while invisible without stealth. Rest of it went long and I left before it got finished. By the end it was surprisingly the Pally-Gish and the Fighter/Cleric, the sorcerer got taken out because he modified memory on the rogue to get him to focus entirely on her.
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Sep 25, 2018 00:26
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2XGp5ix8HE
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Sep 25, 2018 00:36
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evenworse username posted:I gather that (nearly) at-will flight can make things hard for the DM, especially at low levels, so I guess that's why they made flying forms take so long to kick in. I mean if your DM is willing to waive that, though? Okay so the big thing to think about why flying is bad and should not be showing up early and should not be reliable is that fundamentally dnd is 2d game operating on a 2nd grid. You can do otherwise but its a pain in the rear end and since many classes and skillsets revolve around getting into melee, its an attribute that can just let you solve and bypass way too many problems. Hence why its definitely not something you want to have showing up until you've actually got a larger set of abilities at your disposal to deal with it/make it risky.
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Sep 25, 2018 00:43
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That suggests a barbarian has a chance though.
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Sep 25, 2018 00:45
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Sounds like you weren't aggressive enough.
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Sep 25, 2018 00:47
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kingcom posted:Okay so the big thing to think about why flying is bad and should not be showing up early and should not be reliable is that fundamentally dnd is 2d game operating on a 2nd grid. You can do otherwise but its a pain in the rear end and since many classes and skillsets revolve around getting into melee, its an attribute that can just let you solve and bypass way too many problems. Hence why its definitely not something you want to have showing up until you've actually got a larger set of abilities at your disposal to deal with it/make it risky.  " is the only reason most couldn't get away with using the 4th ed draconian subrace. It's paradoxical fine print wings would be fun to have, but still leave you embarrassingly vulnerable to pit traps.
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Sep 25, 2018 00:51
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Arthil posted:Hey guys, here to talk about ho- Holy poo poo the thread is full of bullshit. Rough. I should've recommended you a Rod of Absorption instead. Also, confirming that DM doesn't understand how invisibility works.
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Sep 25, 2018 00:56
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Conspiratiorist posted:Rough. I should've recommended you a Rod of Absorption instead. The player is knowledgeable so I tend to take his word on how stuff works, but in this case both of us went "... gently caress" when we both realized I'd have been able to still be raging and/or hiding from view. He just really didn't want to be hit by me, or to let me rage since after story mcguffins my sub-class swapped to zealot and I just wouldn't have ever loving died. In complete hindsight, after pulling my story related shenanigans with the Ring of Three Wishes I brought with me. I should have walked over to the forcecaged Fighter/Cleric and other Fighter to cast antimagic field on myself so I wasn't the only threat. I still had fun, though. I think it was the other Fighter who enjoyed it the least and we both agreed that the DM that organized the event has no real concept of power for players when you take away their magical items.
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Sep 25, 2018 01:07
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AlphaDog posted:(Couldn't easily find any WotC images of Trish, Jeremy, or Hilary, but you managed to forget Mearls and Crawford so it probably evens out) I'm so loving entranced by this post that I'm going to take a quick study break to check the statistical likelihood that the DnD team is representative Of the 20 people pictured, let's say about 15 of them are white dudes, which wikipedia sez are ~30% of the US population Assuming a random sample, this forms a binomial distribution; we want the case where X >= 15 out a sample of 20 The probability of this is at most (20 choose 15) * 0.3^15, which turns out to about 0.0002, or 0.02%
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Sep 25, 2018 02:06
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Sion posted:yeah it's a real strong spell for the slot even the designers have said its maybe a bit overpowered because it's fireball of course it has to be op I assume this is a joke, right? I know Mearls is on record as saying this, but Hypnotic Pattern and Fear exist. I also have no idea why you guys are going as far as Tomb as Annihilation when the PHB says the white elves are smarter than the black elves - I mean, come on! Should tell you all you need to know right there.
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Sep 25, 2018 02:45
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:I assume this is a joke, right? I know Mearls is on record as saying this, but Hypnotic Pattern and Fear exist. My understanding is that fireball is unusually strong at the level you get it, but that monster hp outpaces it pretty steadily as everyone gets stronger.
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Sep 25, 2018 02:56
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kingcom posted:Okay so the big thing to think about why flying is bad and should not be showing up early and should not be reliable is that fundamentally dnd is 2d game operating on a 2nd grid. You can do otherwise but its a pain in the rear end and since many classes and skillsets revolve around getting into melee, its an attribute that can just let you solve and bypass way too many problems. Hence why its definitely not something you want to have showing up until you've actually got a larger set of abilities at your disposal to deal with it/make it risky. It's useful in certain circumstances but leaves you really open to death at lower levels. It's all fun and games to fly as a 2nd level Aarakocra until you get knocked unconscious while 50 feet off the ground and take an immediate 4d6 damage, possibly an instakill. In terms of problem solving it's really just a matter of remembering that your players have that ability and taking it into account when you don't want it to be an immediate solution. But I wouldn't fault any DM who didn't want anyone playing a flier in low levels.
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Sep 25, 2018 02:56
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Thalantos posted:As someone who would fall under the "diverse" category/have offensive stuff, I generally just shut up about it....cause if you do bring it up you get flooded with comments about being over sensitive and such. Yeah, I've been there.  But you deserve better, and I hope you're able to find an in-person group that does work for you. Online, especially on SA, don't settle. A lot of us put a lot of effort and sweat into making Trad Games in particular an accessible space for diverse people to talk about games, and don't let yourself be silenced.
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Sep 25, 2018 02:57
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poorlifedecision posted:It's useful in certain circumstances but leaves you really open to death at lower levels. It's all fun and games to fly as a 2nd level Aarakocra until you get knocked unconscious while 50 feet off the ground and take an immediate 4d6 damage, possibly an instakill. In terms of problem solving it's really just a matter of remembering that your players have that ability and taking it into account when you don't want it to be an immediate solution. But I wouldn't fault any DM who didn't want anyone playing a flier in low levels. So the problem solving part is not like puzzle but in combat. There are a lot of enemies without the mobility or the ranged skills to fight flying enemies, its just a reality of the game. On top of that flying makes you just completely immune from so many effects that it kind makes all GM combat design to be about considering that one player's ability to fly. With magic flying its a lot less of a problem because you gave concentration to break and it means other/better buffs aren't available for use. It makes it a real trade off and gives the GM a lot more freedom and flexibility to handle. You only have to consider it vaguely as a resource they can use as opposed to someone flying literally all the time for every encounter. Now you might say 'build stuff that targets the flyer with lots of magic missile/decent archers', which unfortunately just presents the next problem. You are infinitely more likely to just straight kill them in a system that is always way more lethal to low level characters. The least interesting consequence for a decision is death, almost always. Having the low level character getting knocked out from a lucky hit sucks, having them knocked out and falling to their death is extremely unfun and uninteresting both for the player and for the GM (especially so if you're not running that kind of PC grinder game and more focused on just a narrative arc you're building and the GM probably put a bunch of work into figuring out for the character).
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Sep 25, 2018 03:10
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Ferrinus posted:My understanding is that fireball is unusually strong at the level you get it, but that monster hp outpaces it pretty steadily as everyone gets stronger. It's intentionally ahead of the damage curve, but yeah spell level 3 in general is designed as a big power bump in general since it's also when martials get Extra Attack
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Sep 25, 2018 03:30
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Ask me about my high level (10), shield+plate, spell-immune flying Paladin and how the DM grits his teeth every time he's reminded that the only encounters that can challenge me would mean certain death for the rest of the party.
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Sep 25, 2018 03:31
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