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predicto posted:all ballot initiatives should be opposed except for the ones that are to repeal earlier ballot initiatives yeah it'd be great if we had a more functional legislature but in it's absence we can approve things our elected officials are too cowardly to do themselves
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Sep 26, 2018 20:58
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Sydin posted:No idea what's being planned at the state level, but at a local one we're bracing for blanket budget cuts, shrinking the scope of road work currently in-progress and scrapping a lot of what was planned, as well as scrapping plans to expand the bus system. We also have a pretty aggressive timetable for phasing fully electric buses into the fleet at the moment, but if we lose the SB1 money we're probably looking at a 15 year timetable instead of a 5 year one in the absence of a new tax, or like a five-fold increase in ridership. Ugh. I’m honestly expecting more than 60% of the people to vote for repealing the gas tax. Future generations are going to be ruthless when they write our histories.
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Sep 26, 2018 21:45
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I didn’t realize the gas tax repeal also had the bonus terrible idea of requiring a referendum on all future gas tax increases
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Sep 26, 2018 21:48
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If the gas tax gets repealed it will at least make it easier to ban gas vehicles later.
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Sep 26, 2018 21:49
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Pete Rates the Propositions doesn't have his detailed analysis for any of the props up yet but he does have summaries: http://www.peterates.com/props-1118.shtml Interestingly he's decided to vote NO on props 8 and 11 because he doesn't feel that ballot initiatives are good solutions to these problems.
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Sep 26, 2018 22:07
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i mean yeah generally one would hope that the legislature would be a good venue to write legislation that regulates business practices but lol
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Sep 26, 2018 22:53
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Trabisnikof posted:If the gas tax gets repealed it will at least make it easier to ban gas vehicles later.
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Sep 26, 2018 23:01
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bawfuls posted:as has been discussed in this thread in regards to the gas tax initiative, letting the perfect be the enemy of the good gets us nowhere on this stuff, and in fact actively causes more harm This is also by the way why California should totally implement a single payer system even if a national solution is more ideal.
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Sep 26, 2018 23:03
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bawfuls posted:how do you figure? Just will reduce the argument we need to keep gasoline sales high because we depend on it for revenue. Very thin silver-lining-ing here.
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Sep 26, 2018 23:04
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Leperflesh posted:...I mean I kinda agree it's caused all manner of problems, but the state is presently decidedly not destroyed I mean destroyed in the sense of what it could be. I love this state, but Prop 13 and all of its followups have destroyed our finances, schools and roads, the Three Strikes proposition turned us into a police state, and so many other propostions have been passed that are hosed up - but they can't be amended and fixed by the Legislature because they are the "people's will," superior to the Legislature. Because of propositions, the Legislature abdicates its responsibility to govern and when it wants to do its job, it can't because it is hemmed in by proposition created law. The only truly necessary proposition we have passed in the past 40 years is the redistricting commission, because that went to the heart of how the state functions as a political entity. If we have to have propositions, the standard for passing them should be higher, and they should expire after ten years unless we renew them.
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Sep 26, 2018 23:09
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bawfuls posted:as has been discussed in this thread in regards to the gas tax initiative, letting the perfect be the enemy of the good gets us nowhere on this stuff, and in fact actively causes more harm yeah, I know. I hold my nose and vote for the better ones, but its a lovely-rear end system that does far more harm than good.
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Sep 26, 2018 23:10
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predicto posted:I mean destroyed in the sense of what it could be. Shall we abandon all efforts at good policy until such a time as we can call a convention? edit: you're in broad agreement with most people in this thread then
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Sep 26, 2018 23:12
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bawfuls posted:Yes you've identified the major problems with our proposition system. Fixing them would likely require a complete overhaul of the state constitution, likely via a state constitutional convention. no. sigh
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Sep 26, 2018 23:13
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predicto posted:no. quote:all ballot initiatives should be opposed except for the ones that are to repeal earlier ballot initiatives
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Sep 26, 2018 23:14
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It is ironic that the CA ballot measure system, which has played such a prominent role in getting the state in a financial mess, is also the most likely way for us to get out of that mess.
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Sep 27, 2018 00:47
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Sydin posted:This is also by the way why California should totally implement a single payer system even if a national solution is more ideal. That's how Canada did it, Saskatchewan implemented single payer, and other provinces saw how popular it was and began implementing their own, all provinces had all added their own single payer system after 10 years, then they implemented the national healthcare system to standardize all the province single payer systems.
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Sep 27, 2018 01:28
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bawfuls posted:don't sigh in exasperation. This started with you stating It wasn't exasperation at you or this thread or how anyone was responding to me It was an expression of reluctant acknowledgement that you are right, of course, and I knew it all along. Whether I like the system or not, I need to vote when the choices are presented to me. It's just so loving frustrating. I was venting. predicto fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Sep 27, 2018 |
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Sep 27, 2018 01:40
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fermun posted:That's how Canada did it, Saskatchewan implemented single payer, and other provinces saw how popular it was and began implementing their own, all provinces had all added their own single payer system after 10 years, then they implemented the national healthcare system to standardize all the province single payer systems. the united states will never standardize anything like that, we haven't even managed to standardize drivers' licenses. here in CA we may manage to get a sensible healthcare system by 2050 but when Mississippi implements theirs it'll be a "get sick and
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Sep 27, 2018 03:18
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Grand Prize Winner posted:the united states will never standardize anything like that, we haven't even managed to standardize drivers' licenses. here in CA we may manage to get a sensible healthcare system by 2050 but when Mississippi implements theirs it'll be a "get sick and You cant know any of this for certain. Simgle payer healthcare could increase gdp by hundreds of billions both state and nationally. 2050? Lmfao were already looking at machine assisted surgery for the most basic of things in the now. The more machine assisted the lower the cost.
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Sep 27, 2018 03:39
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First polling I've seen in a while: http://www.ppic.org/wp-content/uploads/ppic-statewide-survey-september-2018.pdf disappointing but hopefully De Leon can continue to improve.  Prop 6 lookin' good, prop 10 looking sad. Lot of undecideds on 10 still though.  Cross-tabs on 6.  Cross-tabs on 10.
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Sep 27, 2018 05:36
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Oh man, what I wouldn't give for Prop 6 to fail. Not only would it be a fantastic slap in the face for Republicans, but it would also be a huge boon for public transit. We're building zero emissions buses and bike lanes with that money, and we need every cent.
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Sep 27, 2018 05:58
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fermun posted:
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Sep 27, 2018 06:16
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Ballot initiative process is super interesting, having moved here from a state without such a system. I can't remember but I think you can submit a title but ultimately the secretary of state or the ag's office or something picks the title and it's gotta meet some sort of criteria E: attorney general
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Sep 27, 2018 06:21
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Wtf rent control is a loser even among renters??
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Sep 27, 2018 06:25
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bawfuls posted:Wtf rent control is a loser even among renters?? I would guess: - People who think it isn't good enough, one way or another - People who think their local gov't won't do a good job - People who think they'll be landlords sooner or later Or, more likely, people who don't understand it.
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Sep 27, 2018 06:31
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bawfuls posted:Wtf rent control is a loser even among renters?? Rent control is lovely, pus soaked bandaid over the sucking chest wound that is california's housing crises. Also every renter is just a temporarily embarrassed millionaire landlord yada yada yada.
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Sep 27, 2018 06:32
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The owner class is going to spend millions telling every moron in the state that their rent will go up if it passes. That isn't true, but it'll be blasted across every media portal for the next month.
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Sep 27, 2018 06:50
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Wicked Them Beats posted:The owner class is going to spend millions telling every moron in the state that their rent will go up if it passes. That isn't true, but it'll be blasted across every media portal for the next month. yeah absolutely this
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Sep 27, 2018 07:01
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well that's true in any case
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Sep 27, 2018 07:08
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I’m old enough to remember when there used to occasionally be good news in the world. Feels like forever ago.
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Sep 27, 2018 07:36
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Is the de Leon campaign doing anything? I admit I don't watch TV, which is where I'd expect to see most senate campaigning, but flyers for local poo poo is starting to show up in the mail and I haven't seen so much as a de Leon sign in a window or a bumper sticker.
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Sep 27, 2018 09:35
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kevin de leon is building political capital
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Sep 27, 2018 09:44
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bawfuls posted:Yes you've identified the major problems with our proposition system. Fixing them would likely require a complete overhaul of the state constitution, likely via a state constitutional convention. Prop 8 proved California can change its constitution with a simple majority, so just vote in a proposition that changes everything. 
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Sep 27, 2018 14:51
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And if you can't do that, just put up a proposition that changes the constitution to let us do it.
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Sep 27, 2018 15:23
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Oneiros posted:Rent control is lovely, pus soaked bandaid over the sucking chest wound that is california's housing crises. Rent control can be lovely if it's used the way NIMBYs want it to be - but it can also be a tool to help decommodify housing, which is the only real long term solution.
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Sep 27, 2018 15:29
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Extremely confused that the cross tabs say only 50% of Republicans want to repeal the gas tax and 57% of people in the Inland Empire want to keep it.
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Sep 27, 2018 16:41
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what should i make of the PPIC poll having newsom up 55-32 back in july to 51-39 now i mean the election's probably not going to be anywhere near that close come november, right
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Sep 27, 2018 16:42
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:what should i make of the PPIC poll having newsom up 55-32 back in july to 51-39 now Final result will be 55-45 or thereabouts. Could be 60-40 if the Republicans are completely demoralized about not having a Senate candidate. Remember there's only two candidates so anyone showing up who hates Newsom only has one other choice on the ballot. Closest I would expect would be 52-48, but that's only if Newsom were revealed as a replicant and/or ate a baby on live tv.
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Sep 27, 2018 16:53
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ah, i see i thought it was weird looking at how something like 62% of primary candidates voted for dem gubernatorial candidates in the primaries, but then the general is apparently much less lopsided
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Sep 27, 2018 16:58
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Each poll is a singular event and they aren't polling often enough for us to get a real picture of how opinions are shifting (once every three months is about as useful as not polling at all), but the best way to look at it is to note that there are 10% undecideds, and even if Cox gets 100% of those undecided voters he would still lose. He's closed the gap, which was inevitable as election day got closer and Republicans who disliked him in the primary decide he was their one true savior all along, but it's nowhere near enough.
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Sep 27, 2018 17:13
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