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readingatwork posted:RT unironically owns because their entire propaganda strategy atm is to just give a platform to all the people MSNBC fired for saying the Iraq war was bad and let them say true poo poo about the US. Yeah pretty much, that's why the argument is never "what they are saying is false and here's the proof", the argument is always nationalism. Doesn't matter that it's true, even listening to it makes you an Enemy of America
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Sep 26, 2018 20:47
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If anything MSNBC has never been worse
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Sep 26, 2018 20:48
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:If anything MSNBC has never been worse They were probably worse 2003-2005.
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Sep 26, 2018 20:52
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Lightning Knight posted:They were probably worse 2003-2005. IIRC they were bad but it was a less slick kind of bad than today.
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Sep 26, 2018 21:11
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Trip report: posting articles in the Donald J. Trump thread that contain direct quotes from red state dems about their affinity for Donald J. Trump now warrants a 6-hour probation apparently.
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Sep 27, 2018 00:58
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B B posted:Trip report: posting articles in the Donald J. Trump thread that contain direct quotes from red state dems about their affinity for Donald J. Trump now warrants a 6-hour probation apparently. Trump is bad, but the Dems who like and support him are good.
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Sep 27, 2018 01:20
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Also, I like how you can't post what you did because there was big news happening at the same time.
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Sep 27, 2018 01:38
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Lightning Knight posted:They were probably worse 2003-2005. The 00's were bad but MSNBC still offered something of a left-ish contrast to CNN and Fox at the time. The 2016 primary/GE on the other hand really forced them to drop the progressive mask and commit to being CNN-lite and they've been completely unwatchable ever since.
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Sep 27, 2018 02:00
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B B posted:Trip report: posting articles in the Donald J. Trump thread that contain direct quotes from red state dems about their affinity for Donald J. Trump now warrants a 6-hour probation apparently. It is truly fascinating to me just how much the Democrats today resemble the Republicans circa 2010. Literally everything I loathed about conservatives during the Bush years (conspiracy theories, groupthink, dishonesty, hypocrisy, general insanity) is now in full swing on the left and I loving hate it.
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Sep 27, 2018 02:56
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readingatwork posted:The 00's were bad but MSNBC still offered something of a left-ish contrast to CNN and Fox at the time. The 2016 primary/GE on the other hand really forced them to drop the progressive mask and commit to being CNN-lite and they've been completely unwatchable ever since. What MSNBC are you watching?
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Sep 27, 2018 05:23
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B B posted:Trip report: posting articles in the Donald J. Trump thread that contain direct quotes from red state dems about their affinity for Donald J. Trump now warrants a 6-hour probation apparently. the unpunished multipage drinking derail that starts the next page is really the 
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Sep 27, 2018 06:02
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readingatwork posted:The 00's were bad but MSNBC still offered something of a left-ish contrast to CNN and Fox at the time. The 2016 primary/GE on the other hand really forced them to drop the progressive mask and commit to being CNN-lite and they've been completely unwatchable ever since. Are you sure you weren't just mixing up "attacking Republicans" with "being left/left-ish"? I can't remember MSNBC ever being remotely left-leaning in any real sense. If I had to pinpoint a time when it was the most liberal, I guess I might say prior to the 2016 election season (so when they were heavy Democratic partisans but before they felt the need to actively ostracize the left). Skex posted:What MSNBC are you watching? You might be confusing "left-ish" with "Democratic partisan," though even the latter is kind of questionable, since MSNBC isn't exactly light on including conservatives/conservative commentators.
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Sep 27, 2018 07:21
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readingatwork posted:It is truly fascinating to me just how much the Democrats today resemble the Republicans circa 2010. Literally everything I loathed about conservatives during the Bush years (conspiracy theories, groupthink, dishonesty, hypocrisy, general insanity) is now in full swing on the The power center of the democratic party has been solely chasing the republican party's source of power (business/capital more or less - doggedly instead of passively) since Reagan with the utmost confidence only a Perot split-vote mandate and an atrocity ridden 8 years of Bush and Obama could bring in a two-party dominated world. The only difference with the GOP is on social issues, and even there outside of a handful, they only claim the moral mantle after it's fought for and won by activists and embraced by enough of the general populace. The erasure of the Log Cabin Republicans is pretty telling. The country, a (collapsing) global empire, is riven betwixt two nearly indomitable parties whose underlying drive is utterly disconnected from the effects upon the lives over which they rule. Quickly after B. Clinton won, the alternative media republican onslaught began. You really have to question the intellectual reasoning behind the Telecommunications Act of 1996 massively deregulating media, one of Clinton's heralded bipartisan achievements, which essentially transformed Rush Limbaugh's act into the demagogic gold standard of burgeoning right-wing radio. It also began the rapid devouring of news and information sources into massive unaccountable conglomerates on all sides. You'll never hear a Clinton acknowledge this absurdity. Wikipedia, it's okay, that's fairly accurate posted:"Vast right-wing conspiracy" is a conspiracy theory popularized by a 1995 memo by political opposition researcher Chris Lehane and then referenced in 1998 by the then First Lady of the United States Hillary Clinton, in defense of her husband, President Bill Clinton, characterizing the continued allegations of scandal against her and her husband, including the Lewinsky scandal, as part of a long campaign by Clinton's political enemies. The term has been used since, including in a question posed to Bill Clinton in 2009 to describe verbal attacks on Barack Obama during his early presidency. Hillary Clinton mentioned it again during her 2016 presidential campaign. Basically every major "news" player has been completely consumed by massive multinational conglomerates fully preoccupied by bombastic coverage for ratings, cross-promotion of their subsidiaries similarly useless and re-enforcing nonsense, and so on. We're a collapsing empire ruled by false dichotomy, one of which fully embraced insane far right demagoguery 20 years ago to rile their base and lost the leash, and the other which pretended too hard in power, and does nothing when without. Long story short the right is thriving on the power/information vacuum and every void is a new surface to subsume, whereas the "left" media is playing catch up after eight years of being drunk on Obama and not doing a goddamn thing about anything.
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Sep 27, 2018 07:30
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hobotrashcanfires posted:The country, a (collapsing) global empire, is riven betwixt two nearly indomitable parties whose underlying drive is utterly disconnected from the effects upon the lives over which they rule. I don’t disagree with you but this line made me lol, it’s a little bit much.
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Sep 27, 2018 14:07
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The MSNBC of right about now at minimum has roots in the 2008 primary era---as that's when their parent MIC interests started to draw attention and they instead elected to double down and normalize to further their relationship with FOX as a useful foil.
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Sep 27, 2018 14:27
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Ytlaya posted:Are you sure you weren't just mixing up "attacking Republicans" with "being left/left-ish"? Maybie? It's been a while. I remember Rachel Maddow not being completely poo poo before the 2016 primary at least. Also for a hot minute (I think late into the Bush years?) they really were reaching for a progressive audience in an attempt to be the left's Fox News so you'd actually get serious left wing (read: social democrat) takes on things from time to time. I was somewhat conservative at the time though so it's entirely possible that it just felt super left wing compared to what I already believed.
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Sep 27, 2018 14:45
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readingatwork posted:Maybie? It's been a while. I remember Rachel Maddow not being completely poo poo before the 2016 primary at least. Also for a hot minute (I think late into the Bush years?) they really were reaching for a progressive audience in an attempt to be the left's Fox News so you'd actually get serious left wing (read: social democrat) takes on things from time to time. I was somewhat conservative at the time though so it's entirely possible that it just felt super left wing compared to what I already believed. No, you're right, Maddow was way less crazy then. But then he came down that escalator and nothing was ever the same again.
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Sep 27, 2018 16:01
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Lightning Knight posted:I don’t disagree with you but this line made me lol, it’s a little bit much. Hah I was just kinda having fun with words there. I'm glad it made you judge it and lol.
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Sep 27, 2018 16:33
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readingatwork posted:The 00's were bad but MSNBC still offered something of a left-ish contrast to CNN and Fox at the time. The 2016 primary/GE on the other hand really forced them to drop the progressive mask and commit to being CNN-lite and they've been completely unwatchable ever since. They lost me when they kicked out Keith.
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Sep 27, 2018 16:39
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readingatwork posted:The 00's were bad but MSNBC still offered something of a left-ish contrast to CNN and Fox at the time. The 2016 primary/GE on the other hand really forced them to drop the progressive mask and commit to being CNN-lite and they've been completely unwatchable ever since. They literally fired a popular television host for being skeptical about the invasion of Iraq. I don't understand how you can be defending them in the 00s when they were actively participating in a criminal conspiracy engineered at the highest levels of government to embroil the country in a Forever War that is still causing massive problems around the world a decade and a half on. Why, in this context, would it even be considered a positive that MSNBC was offering fake-left talking points when they are so visibly acting in bad faith?
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Sep 27, 2018 17:03
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Hell, even Republicans at this point are apparently trying to blame the Iraq war on Democrats.
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Sep 27, 2018 17:11
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hobotrashcanfires posted:Hah I was just kinda having fun with words there. I'm glad it made you judge it and lol. I liked it. Play with words more.
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Sep 27, 2018 17:12
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Hell, even Republicans at this point are apparently trying to blame the Iraq war on Democrats. Every time Democrats work bipartisanly with Republicans to help their agenda, the Republicans blame them when it goes to hell and it's not 100% a lie.
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Sep 27, 2018 17:17
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hobotrashcanfires posted:Hah I was just kinda having fun with words there. I'm glad it made you judge it and lol. Hey man, you do you. It just sounds like some Dark Souls dialogue lol. Also yeah like, I honestly think the media was worse in the Iraq days. At least today they pretend to oppose the President. In the 2000s they were underwriting Bush’s wars.
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Sep 27, 2018 17:39
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Lightning Knight posted:Hey man, you do you. It just sounds like some Dark Souls dialogue lol. Quite a bit of their opposition is that he doesn't act more like George W. Bush. Remember the day Trump "became President"? I don't understand how that kind of opposition is helpful. The media's fake opposition to Trump and their reverence for the Clinton-Obama-Bush foreign policy blob is not helpful in opposing Trump. Remember when he went to the most conservative electorate imaginable (South Carolina Republican primary voters) and outright said "Bush lied to get us into Iraq and it didn't make us safer" and the crowd lapped it up? Part of what gave Trump his totally unearned reputation as some kind of truth teller is that the entire media is so corrupt and rotten that the mildest dissent from the media consensus can make any buffoon look brave and insightful. The idea that unified media condemnation of Trump is an asset seems totally backwards. He literally won by running against the media. I guess there's a case to be made that the media is playing a role in destroying Kavanaugh's path to the Supreme Court, which is laudable, but every study of television media coverage I've seen shows them fixating on poo poo like Trump's policies on Russia or Syria while largely ignoring Puerto Rico, immigration, taxes, healthcare, etc. I just don't get where anyone looks at the contemporary media landscape and concludes it's anything except harmful.
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Sep 27, 2018 17:50
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Helsing posted:Quite a bit of their opposition is that he doesn't act more like George W. Bush. Remember the day Trump "became President"? I don't understand how that kind of opposition is helpful. Yeah - the media basically "opposed" Bush in the same way they "oppose" Trump; they fully support any of the "normal" right-wing things he did, while condemning/mocking him for personally acting dumb.
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Sep 27, 2018 18:18
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Lightning Knight posted:Hey man, you do you. It just sounds like some Dark Souls dialogue lol. It’s literally only because the President is Trump.
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Sep 27, 2018 18:24
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There's a recent article at Truthdig that uses the recent anonymous NY Times op ed to describe how the Establishment's fear and loathing of Trump is far different than our own. It basically boils down to his blatant disregard for the norms makes it impossible to maintain plausible deniability and strips away the false legitimacy of the American empire. https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-establishments-fear-is-different-from-yours/ quote:The AA fears and loathes Trump for ruling-class and imperialist reasons, not for ones that ought to most concern people who care about democracy, social justice and prospects for a decent future.
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Sep 27, 2018 18:30
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Helsing posted:They literally fired a popular television host for being skeptical about the invasion of Iraq. Yes but before they fired him he was actually on the air poo poo-talking the war whereas no such figures exist on MSNBC atm to be fired. That makes old MSNBC definitely less terrible than new MSNBC. Checkmate bitches. 
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Sep 27, 2018 18:37
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All the furor over Kavanaugh has people talking about Anita Hill again and among other things it caused this quote to resurface: In case you're wondering yes, that is the same Sen. Simpson that Obama appointed as co-chair of a Presidential Commission that was supposed to give bipartisan legitimacy to his plan to cut social security and medicare. Because shockingly the guy who once described social security as "A Milk Cow With 310 Million Tits" also has lots of other interesting opinions on women. I mostly bring this up to emphasize what an empty facade centrism is. Obama saw this guy and his other ghoulish colleagues in the senate as men of upstanding character and principle with whom he could a deal. There really is some compulsive need for centrists to prop up the idea of the sensible and decent Republican who will meet them in the middle, because God knows the Democrats will never countenance a turn-out-the-base strategy. They'll keep propping up clowns like Simpson, weekend-at-Bernies style, just to maintain the illusion that there's a defensible center position that responsible politicos must hew to.
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Sep 27, 2018 18:41
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Iron Twinkie posted:There's a recent article at Truthdig that uses the recent anonymous NY Times op ed to describe how the Establishment's fear and loathing of Trump is far different than our own. It basically boils down to his blatant disregard for the norms makes it impossible to maintain plausible deniability and strips away the false legitimacy of the American empire. Imagine a world where senior Democrats think Alan Simpson is a blathering sexist old fool who belongs in a retirement home if not a prison and who doesn't even deserve to visit his own families thanks giving, never-mind Capitol Hill. That's the terrifying post-decorum world we might find ourselves in if Trump successfully destroys America's precious political norms 
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Sep 27, 2018 18:43
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Simpson is a straight-up ghoul who should have died 20 years ago; at the least he should be hidden away somewhere. Other notable quotes from his rear end in a top hat: channeling the Cos: “Grandchildren now don’t write a thank you for the Christmas presents. They are walking on their pants with their cap on backward, listening to the Enema Man and Snoopy, Snoopy Poop Dog.” why I always cite this essay when austerity-defenders show up: “What a wretched group of seniors you must be to use the faces of the very people that we are trying to save, while the ‘greedy geezers’ like you use them as a tool and a front for your nefarious bunch of crap.” — criticizing the California Alliance for Retired Americans for using the faces of youth on a flyer printed to protest Bowles and Simpson. email to Older Women's League: "I’ve spent many years in public life trying to stabilize that system while people like you babble into the vapors about 'disgusting attempts at ageism and sexism' and all the rest of that crap."
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Sep 27, 2018 20:12
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i would like to take this opportunity to brag about my redtext when was the last time these got handed out, i haven't had avs on for like three years
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Sep 27, 2018 21:03
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Enema Man's new single fuckin' bangs though, step off grandpa
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Sep 27, 2018 21:05
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Also if Kavanaugh doesn't get seated 100% chance Kamala Harris is the 2020 Dem frontrunner and 
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Sep 27, 2018 21:58
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:i would like to take this opportunity to brag about my redtext Heh, I haven't had avatars on since 2007 (when the supervisor at my internship walked in on me reading the Watch and Weight subforum, or whatever it was called back then, and someone with a "BIG AND BLACK" red text avatar was on the screen, though it actually ended up not causing me any problems)
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Sep 27, 2018 22:25
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Previa_fun posted:Also if Kavanaugh doesn't get seated 100% chance Kamala Harris is the 2020 Dem frontrunner and Aren't you forgetting the key role bastaman played in this? 
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Sep 27, 2018 23:18
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https://twitter.com/elainaplott/status/1045478662328537088 "But he votes our way when we need him to!"
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Sep 28, 2018 02:21
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Please be nice to Manchin! 
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Sep 28, 2018 02:28
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https://twitter.com/burgessev/statu...genumber%3D5077
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Sep 28, 2018 02:45
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