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Autism Sneaks posted:"Band of Brooders" is more like a Krieg/Dark Angels nickname; I will accept "Band of Broodlings" tho and subsequently steal it for myself I considered that initially but was concerned it would lose the referential value. 
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Sep 29, 2018 07:49
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I can't believe that they nerfed the flail of corruption in kill team, but left the death watch fragcannon unchanged. I mean, the flail was probably too good, but holy poo poo the fragcannon is on another level. e: Also, faq is kinda 'meh' it feels like they made w guys battalion even more mandatory did slam captains and Knights, so I guess everyone should just invest in that minimum guard battalion, to go along with the actual powerful and fun/cool army. Revelation 2-13 fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 09:06
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Guard is the fun/cool army 
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Sep 29, 2018 09:51
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So after a something like 15 year hiatus from this terrible money sink I've decided to jump back in full force because my girlfriend desperately wants to paint plastic army mans with me. The last tabletop experience I really had with 40k was 3rd edition back when I was a teenager with 2500 points of Black Templars, but I've been reading virtually everything I can about 8th edition and find that the rules have reached a state of being generally pretty good, enough to get me actually excited about playing the game. And with detachments being official I can finally work on that Space Marine / Guard / Adeptus Ministorum mixed list. Cool! I've fallen hard for these so called Primaris Marines, truescale marines or whatever. From a tabletop perspective the prospect of a proper elite Bolter marine army is basically what I've always wanted to do, and with basic primaris marines being 2 wounds with -1AP 30" range bolt rifles that's actually finally looking somewhat viable. The problem I'm having running up against all this theorycrafting is that they really did not want these guys to replace regular marines, dropped the ball hard on offering a full range, and a pure primaris force looks basically like a constant uphill battle to be relevant. Now I don't really care from a narrative perspective who these guys are, to me they're just proper space marines (and in fact I'll be hunting for Mk7 heads to swap on them), but from a game and modeling perspective I have exactly zero interested in mixing in old style marines with these new ones and I'm completely dead set on maintaining my minimum 2 wounds per model badass marine theme. I'm totally fine with loading up on Predators and Dreads etc to fill out the rest (not concerned they're not technically primaris from a lore perspective at all), but as I don't actually have any experience with 8th I have no idea how viable this ends up being. As a somewhat competitive player by nature this has put me in a hard spot, because virtually everything I've managed to put together from the greater internet echo chamber says these guys are super not meta, and I can see why. Access to anti tank is basically restricted to hellblasters (that I honestly don't care for that much, killing your rare elite warriors with suicide guns has never sat well with me), predators, and dreadnoughts. Assault options seem limited to Rivers, Dreads, and uh, HQ units? The transport restrictions are pretty infuriating, so I already know I'm stuck footslogging which seems like a real issue for objective play. So is this 2 wound per model minimum marine army viable like, at all? Or am I just going to get completely dunked on for even attempting it?
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Sep 29, 2018 12:13
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Depends what you want. It'll be fun to tool around in a store with or play semi-competitive. It will get eaten alive by a real list which can take your 2 wound T4 dudes and remove them from the table with ease. Lots of people ITT have tried to make pure Primaris work and it doesn't really get any further than being like a 3-2 army.
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Sep 29, 2018 12:40
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Isn't the general trend that they keep expanding the primaris model roster? So maybe in a year or two the "all true-scale" army will become more viable. Also, Golambo, as another returning player I'd point out that mixing different factions together to make a combined force is much more common in this edition, so that may be one way to avoid mixing the old and new marine models.
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Sep 29, 2018 12:54
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Jack B Nimble posted:Isn't the general trend that they keep expanding the primaris model roster? So maybe in a year or two the "all true-scale" army will become more viable. Also, Golambo, as another returning player I'd point out that mixing different factions together to make a combined force is much more common in this edition, so that may be one way to avoid mixing the old and new marine models. The Primaris line has not had a new unit since they were introduced, unless you count the Anniversary Captain.
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Sep 29, 2018 12:57
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Jack B Nimble posted:Isn't the general trend that they keep expanding the primaris model roster? So maybe in a year or two the "all true-scale" army will become more viable. Also, Golambo, as another returning player I'd point out that mixing different factions together to make a combined force is much more common in this edition, so that may be one way to avoid mixing the old and new marine models. It seems reasonable to expect a second wave at some point, but right now they're a "complete" range in the sense that there aren't missing units or anything in the book.
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Sep 29, 2018 13:00
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Well I had initially been excited to run Marines + Guard as a list, with copious amounts of tanks and bodies, but I haven't seen a lot of examples as such. Basically building up a 1000 points of marines to paint up all pretty and such and get the hang of things and then filling that out with guard as a 2000 point take all comers list. But it's entirely possible id stumble onto a theme that's equally uncompetitive. Is loads of russes a waste of time? Battle cannons seem pretty versatile. Alternatively, I'm sure there is some knight out there I would like to paint and dress up. 
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Sep 29, 2018 13:27
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:The Primaris line has not had a new unit since they were introduced, unless you count the Anniversary Captain. Granted if GW had continued to support the Primaris line with more stuff in succession I imagine the griping and salt would've reached new heights. Meanwhile I'm still in the mindset that we're going to see a whole bunch of new stuff next year for pretty much everything.
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Sep 29, 2018 13:32
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:The Primaris line has not had a new unit since they were introduced, unless you count the Anniversary Captain. Have small marines? EDIT: I mean have small marines had any new releases since Primaris were introduced, not necessarily new units/unit types Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 13:47
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Science Rocket posted:... and Kevin I had a laugh the other day because I named my single poxwalker Kevin and my buddy coincidentally did the same thing. Why do people innately want to name poxwalkers Kevin?
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Sep 29, 2018 14:01
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drat, that sale at my LGS has Adeptus Titanicus at 50% off and a ton of boxes left
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Sep 29, 2018 14:03
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:EDIT: I mean have small marines had any new releases since Primaris were introduced, not necessarily new units/unit types The only major 40k releases I can remember this year so far is KT and Knights. Pretty sure the consensus is that they have pretty much all they need right now, even if their rules can be lacking sometimes.
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Sep 29, 2018 14:04
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GoLambo posted:Well I had initially been excited to run Marines + Guard as a list, with copious amounts of tanks and bodies, but I haven't seen a lot of examples as such. Basically building up a 1000 points of marines to paint up all pretty and such and get the hang of things and then filling that out with guard as a 2000 point take all comers list. But it's entirely possible id stumble onto a theme that's equally uncompetitive. Is loads of russes a waste of time? Battle cannons seem pretty versatile. Battle cannons are excellent. Russes are excellent. The powergamer way to go is tank commanders, but normal russes still own bones and are super fun to play.
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Sep 29, 2018 14:09
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Cooked Auto posted:The only major 40k releases I can remember this year so far is KT and Knights. Pretty sure the consensus is that they have pretty much all they need right now, even if their rules can be lacking sometimes. Custodes had a full new range this year, we have new Necron and Eldar HQs, the various Primaris LTs, there's new GSC stuff in Tooth & Claw, and we're expecting new Orks and new GSC when their books come. There's a decent chunk of 40k stuff out this year.
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Sep 29, 2018 14:15
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TheBigAristotle posted:drat, that sale at my LGS has Adeptus Titanicus at 50% off and a ton of boxes left I'm pretty sure you could go back, buy them out, and have no trouble selling them to goons.
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Sep 29, 2018 14:22
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Corrode posted:Custodes had a full new range this year, we have new Necron and Eldar HQs, the various Primaris LTs, there's new GSC stuff in Tooth & Claw, and we're expecting new Orks and new GSC when their books come. There's a decent chunk of 40k stuff out this year. Yeah I stand corrected on that point. I honestly just forgot about it and remembered the AoS stuff more. v  v:Also to my defence I was referring to releases prior to Orktober and Nidvember.
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Sep 29, 2018 14:32
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TheBigAristotle posted:drat, that sale at my LGS has Adeptus Titanicus at 50% off and a ton of boxes left You should buy all of them and eBay them.
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Sep 29, 2018 14:54
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I painted up my coldstar, including experimenting with another layer of highlighting on the main armour that can be added on to the rest of the army potentially.   
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Sep 29, 2018 14:57
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TheLawinator posted:I'm pretty sure you could go back, buy them out, and have no trouble selling them to goons. You're probably right but the work required would be a pain. Picked up 3 boxes of scouts and a couple assassins, all GW was 20% off
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Sep 29, 2018 15:01
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PierreTheMime posted:If anything I’d say the benefit is very mild, considering the opponent skips spending the 2CP and doesn’t bother with non-LOS-blocking terrain cover anyway in the same way they would have previously. It’s a nice option against most armies, especially those with W10+ monsters and/or vehicles that normally wouldn’t get cover and gives you the benefit of freely forward-deploying. Oh, it's definitely a mild benefit, but it does take 1 more option away from the opponent. I'm always happy to find any new benefit that can help out my Imperial Fists, even if it's a small one.
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Sep 29, 2018 15:02
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Broken Record Talk posted:You should buy all of them and eBay them. There's 20 box sets and as many add on boxes
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Sep 29, 2018 15:03
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So here in the Big FAQ2 low-down ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/28/28th-sept-warhammer-40000-big-faq-2-the-low-downgw-homepage-post-1 ) they mention "When looking in on tournaments, we noticed that the way the Fly keyword interacts with charges was resulting in some cases where Assault Marines and other flying units could stand above (or below) their foes and make 0″ charges. Now, even if you can fly, you’ll have to measure vertically like everyone else when you’re getting stuck into close combat." But I don't see that change in either the Big FAQ or the Rulebook Errata. ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/ ) Has anyone else come upon that rule change?
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Sep 29, 2018 15:58
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Is this a change to the FLY designation or charge rules? Reivers rule lets them ignore vertical distance when the move. Could go either way
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Sep 29, 2018 16:01
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jng2058 posted:So here in the Big FAQ2 low-down ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/28/28th-sept-warhammer-40000-big-faq-2-the-low-downgw-homepage-post-1 ) they mention "When looking in on tournaments, we noticed that the way the Fly keyword interacts with charges was resulting in some cases where Assault Marines and other flying units could stand above (or below) their foes and make 0″ charges. Now, even if you can fly, you’ll have to measure vertically like everyone else when you’re getting stuck into close combat." Yes, fly only ignores terrain and models in the movement phase, and I believe they removed mention of it ignoring vertical distance.
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Sep 29, 2018 16:04
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Booley posted:Yes, fly only ignores terrain and models in the movement phase, and I believe they removed mention of it ignoring vertical distance. Oh, okay, got it. Which means.... TheBigAristotle posted:Reivers rule lets them ignore vertical distance when the move. Could go either way ...Rievers can still 0" charge if they set it up right, as can Harlequins who have the same rule, but no one else can.
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Sep 29, 2018 16:07
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jng2058 posted:Oh, okay, got it. Which means.... harlequins cant, they got singled out for it in their codex's errata.
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Sep 29, 2018 16:09
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GoLambo posted:So is this 2 wound per model minimum marine army viable like, at all? Or am I just going to get completely dunked on for even attempting it? First of all "my girlfriend desperately wants to paint plastic army mans with me" is the best justification imaginable. Good on you, and have fun painting. I basically did what you're thinking, and while it's not super-competitive if you do things correctly it's viable. Here are a few things I decided after goofing around with mathhammer and other things for awhile: - Primaris by themselves lack the anti-tank necessary to take on really heavy targets like Knights and vehicles, and also suffer from being overpriced and underpowered. I believe that GW was still figuring things out when they put together the Space Marine codex and as a result it suffers from an outdated belief that toughness and armor saves are worth more points than modifiers to hit and invulnerable saves. As a result it's very difficult to make a "pure" Primaris force that's viable. - 8th edition, particularly for Imperial armies, centers around mixed forces. In my opinion your best bet for success is to combine a pure Primaris force with other factions to balance them out. A cheap Guard or AdMech battalion is a great source of CP, and Knights (particularly the Armiger Helvarins) can help offset your weaknesses. Cheap troops are particularly helpful for sitting on objectives that would otherwise require an expensive Intercessor squad. - For the most part Primaris-only forces play the same way with each Chapter. The doctrines give a little variety (SW/BA improve assault, DA improve plasma weapons, Raven Guard are probably the best of the core SM books, Imperial Fists might be much improved with the latest FAQ changes), but in general you're still fielding the same Primaris units with the same abilities. The exception is Deathwatch, and I think Deathwatch is the best army to take for a Primaris-only force. - Deathwatch have the same units as the other factions (minus a Primaris Lt), but have additional abilities with Fortis Kill Teams which make them really interesting. Special Issue Ammunition provides a much needed boost in firepower, and the Fortis Kill teams give out a lot of synergies which can be extremely powerful. For example a Kill Team consisting of 5 Intercessors with auto bolt rifles and an Aggressor can advance and still fire every gun without penalty and put out firepower. That gives you a lot more flexibility and speed compared to other SM armies. Their core ability and stratagems also work well with Primaris units, particularly the ones that give a flat +1 to wound. - With the other SM factions it's a good idea to use Scouts, since they're relatively cheap and offer some good benefits. Plus you can have some fun with models that aren't the original lovely ones. You can pay a bit more and have scouts with sniper rifles help against characters, giving them cloaks might be more viable with the cover save bonus stratagem. Scouts are particularly helpful for getting additional CP through extra battalions. - Aggressors are one of the best horde killers in the game, especially when standing still and getting two shots. - Hellblasters are very flexible and useful against anything that has multiple wounds. You'll want to overheat them most of the time so make sure to have a Captain nearby to reroll 1s. - Inceptors are expensive but effective. Plasma Inceptors can be devastating when they drop on an opponent, while assault bolters offer a ton of firepower. I've been meaning to build a set of assault bolter Inceptors and see how they work with the Fortis Kill teams, since it enables them to fall back and still shoot. - A fun trick with Deathwatch is the Beacon Angelis. Take a squad of 10 Hellblasters and deploy them. Have a Primaris Captain either deep strike in Turn 2 or advanced forward in Turn 1, then use the Beacon to deploy the Hellblasters even further forward than that. The 15" rapid fire range means you have a good chance of dumping a lot of firepower into a target that you advance towards.
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Sep 29, 2018 16:30
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Imperial Fists might be much improved with the latest FAQ changes Not really. The games will run exactly the same as they do now. All it does is mean that my opponent can't decide to use the cover strategem (unless I make the mistake of bringing marine tanks, in which case he still can because I don't get chapter tactics on them).
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Sep 29, 2018 16:53
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The cover strategem is a pretty big deal for power armor I think.
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Sep 29, 2018 16:59
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Corrode posted:Custodes had a full new range this year, we have new Necron and Eldar HQs, the various Primaris LTs, there's new GSC stuff in Tooth & Claw, and we're expecting new Orks and new GSC when their books come. There's a decent chunk of 40k stuff out this year. Hopefully codex Emperor's Children or World Eaters, also. CSM need love, too.
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Sep 29, 2018 17:17
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GoLambo posted:So is this 2 wound per model minimum marine army viable like, at all? Or am I just going to get completely dunked on for even attempting it? Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I basically did what you're thinking, and while it's not super-competitive if you do things correctly it's viable. Here are a few things I decided after goofing around with mathhammer and other things for awhile: Keeping some select parts of Beer4theBeerGod's post. He's pretty drat spot on, but I wanted to throw some words of praise in for Dark Angels. I've heard a few people here throw around that DA are currently probably the best Astartes factions (possibly aside from Deathwatch), and a huge part of their current lists revolve around a solid primaris core of Hellblasters. This, along with some non-primaris support, can lay down some serious firepower and I think fixes some of the issues that you'll other run into with a pure primaris list. At it's core, you will take: Azrael Primaris Lt* Primaris Ancient* 3 Squads of Intercessors* Darkshroud 2 Squads of 8 to 10 Help blasters *Could be better as non-primaris, but fits your theme. The darkshroud gives everyone around it a -1 to got against enemies and Azrael gives everyone around a 4++, which will drastically improve your survivability. Azrael gives full rerolls to hit and the Lt gives rerolls to wound. The ancient let's your dudes potentially shoot back when they die. With the DA strategem Weapons from the Dark Age, you will melt anything within 30 inches. This has been my core anti-tank for a while and I've had pretty good success with it. The extra damage from WftDA really helps. My Aggressors are still in the box, but they also will benefit from this bubble, but also will get a lot from the Dark Angels chapter trait which let's units reroll 1s to hit when they stand still. This is great, given that you'll want them to generally remain stationary anyway so that they can double tap their weapons. If you want to go crazy, a double stormcannon Leviathan is gravy on top of all of this. I usually run some for of non-Astartes support, but that's up to you. The only downside to Dark Angels is that you'll never heard the end of playing Chaos.
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Sep 29, 2018 17:20
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Mef989 posted:Keeping some select parts of Beer4theBeerGod's post. He's pretty drat spot on, but I wanted to throw some words of praise in for Dark Angels. At least for me the issue is that Azrael and the Darkshroud aren't Primaris units. Then again I converted a Gravis Captain into a Watch Master so I don't have much of a leg to stand on. That said I agree that the combination of Darkshroud and Azrael is very powerful and forms a solid core, and that given the prevalence of plasma and the innate abilities of DA they're a great option.
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Sep 29, 2018 17:29
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Mef989 posted:Keeping some select parts of Beer4theBeerGod's post. He's pretty drat spot on, but I wanted to throw some words of praise in for Dark Angels. Dark Angels took a hit as collateral damage to the Imperial Soup mix. A big part of the Dark Angel's success was their ability to recover CP when spamming out their 1 CP stratagems (especially Weapons of the Dark Ages). Now the Warlord trait that was doing that work is capped at returning 1 cp per game round. This change clearly hurts lists that relied on Ravenwing bikers. Infantry lists focused on Primaris Hellblasters probably won't be hurt too badly.
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Sep 29, 2018 18:50
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Maneck posted:Dark Angels took a hit as collateral damage to the Imperial Soup mix. A big part of the Dark Angel's success was their ability to recover CP when spamming out their 1 CP stratagems (especially Weapons of the Dark Ages). Now the Warlord trait that was doing that work is capped at returning 1 cp per game round. To an extent, by and large though only to the same degree as anyone with a CP regen trait. Azrael was probably working more or less as intended the whole time, so it's not too bad. Its been a long time since I played a bike list, so I can't talk there, but I didn't notice it too bad last night when I played. I probably rarely gained more than one per battle round anyway, so now I just roll for brilliant strategist until I earn it back for that round. Edit: what I'm interested in seeing though is how my Angels of Death list will play. I have my BA Scouts, Lib Dread and Smash Captain assembled as of last niggt, but hadn't gotten to running them before the FAQ. I'm hoping the with Azrael and Co. to clear out screens that maybe I can still get some use out of them. Mef989 fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 21:16
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There's something called a chaos lord in my death guard codex. Is there specifically a nurgle one i need for my army or would I just buy like this: http://www.thundergamesandgifts.com/product-p/gw1438.htm and paint it nurgly? Is that how people do it?
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Sep 29, 2018 21:23
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So apparently the rules for Warlords don't actually make you pick a Character, it can be any model. A non-Character still picks a Warlord Trait, too, they just can't use it. Space Wolves can add Wolf Guard Terminators to any infantry squad. Space Wolves can use a stratagem to make the last surviving member of a squad into a Character. News: Space Wolves can give a Saga to the Wolf Guard added onto a squad, and when the rest of the squad dies he goes super saiyan into a character with +2 W and +2 A that also immediately kicks up a Saga that may or may not have already been activated by the time it kicks in. Views: owns bones, narrative gold.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:56
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Goddamnit, I just realized that Rule of Three completely breaks Fallen.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:58
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Played a game against Kingsl4yer today, World Eaters vs. Space Wolves, Maelstrom of War. We had a blast, and he's a cool dude. The determining factor in the game ended up being my Chaos Lord using Chaos Boon after killing Arjac. Read about the game in my battle report on Goonhammer: http://www.goonhammer.com/subdomains/forums/battle-report-blood-and-ice-world-eaters-vs-space-wolves/ Key highlight: Dreadnoughts square off after recreating the "Spider-Man pointing at Spider-Man" meme 
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Sep 29, 2018 23:08
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