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Yes, Rathalos is a gimmick. They used artificial difficulty to make it feel like MH without all the stuff that makes MH work in the first place.
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Sep 30, 2018 18:04
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MelvinBison posted:Yes. So by that logic every fight in the game should be an entirely straightforward fight where you dodge AoEs and attack and literally nothing else? Die Sexmonster! posted:Yes, Rathalos is a gimmick. They used artificial difficulty to make it feel like MH without all the stuff that makes MH work in the first place. I really genuinely do not see how it is 'artificial difficulty' and most savage and extreme content isn't. It can't be because you can wipe if one person screws up because a single person on Tsukiyomi can wipe the entire fight easily. Not having attack markers certainly is regular for savage/extreme. Having to read enemy tells is the same. Limited healing I guess is new but it doesn't feel out of place to me and healing debuffs aren't uncommon. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 18:07
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As a completed unrelated to anything comment, I'm getting this extremely bourgeois computer monitor Monday or Tuesday, so soon I'll get to play FFXIV on this ridiculous ultra-wide curved screen (it apparently works well with that).Hats Wouldnt Fly posted:If you're in melee range of a single target, use fuma. Raiton clips into your gcd and slows your entire rotation down. If you're at range or your teleport is on cooldown and you really need it up for some reason, use raiton. Ah, thanks. I hadn't considered the whole "the extra time I'm spending doing Raiton cuts into my combo" aspect. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 18:41
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The one exception is using raiton as a minor optimization when you know the fight well enough to determine that it won't cost you a GCD, but it doesn't come up very often.
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Sep 30, 2018 18:47
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Also if your ping is so low that you might as well be playing directly on the server, you may be able to squeeze in a Raiton without clipping your GCDs. That probably isn't the case with most players though.
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Sep 30, 2018 18:53
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So is it too late to really get into Savage content in the new patch? I guess I should work on getting geared for the EX primal first before worrying about savage.
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Sep 30, 2018 18:55
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Ytlaya posted:As a completed unrelated to anything comment, I'm getting this extremely bourgeois computer monitor Monday or Tuesday, so soon I'll get to play FFXIV on this ridiculous ultra-wide curved screen (it apparently works well with that). counterpoint: raiton looks cooler than fuma and is thus much better
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Sep 30, 2018 19:12
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Bolow posted:
how ImpAtom posted:Is it a gimmick that Omega 4 doesn't let you attack a certain enemy? Is it a gimmick that most fights have a hard time limit, or a gimmick that you have to run into portals or a gimmick that you have to stop and play DDR or... well you get the idea. Actually, that's the very definition of a gimmick.
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Sep 30, 2018 19:17
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The clipping is only going to matter in 100% uptime scenarios, beyond a certain time threshold. Fuma's more reliable in most cases but there should be a good number of situations where a number of rations is better in some sort of hypothetical 100% optimized scenario.
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Sep 30, 2018 19:18
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:how Then every fight has gimmicks and complaining about "this fight has gimmicks" is kind of pointless.
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Sep 30, 2018 19:26
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i forgot dgkk briefly had a mumble that no one uses anymore why is ntan still connected to it
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Sep 30, 2018 19:32
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There's a pretty big difference between "half the party can only attack one target, the other half the other target" and "2 out of 3 roles are completely ignored for half or more of a fight" in levels of gimmickyness.
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Sep 30, 2018 19:54
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WrightOfWay posted:There's a pretty big difference between "half the party can only attack one target, the other half the other target" and "2 out of 3 roles are completely ignored for half or more of a fight" in levels of gimmickyness. I'm not really clear how the tank is more ignored in that fight than others considering the tank's job in most fights is 'grab enmity, then become another DPS or occasionally tank swap." If you're arguing tanks should do more, yeah, sure, I agree, but that isn't exclusive to that fight.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:07
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SonicRulez posted:A 4 man crossover trial where they take away healing in the back half and there's an auto-fail condition attached to number of deaths? Yes I know, but why would that be an example of why hard 4 man content doesn't work outside of gimmicks?
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Sep 30, 2018 20:19
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Nevermind
Poops Mcgoots fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 20:19
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Poops Mcgoots posted:The tank's role in most fights is to use the mitigation they have, both active and passive, to allow other roles to do their jobs without getting smeared by repeated targeted attacks. I'm not seeing how it's such a stretch to say "the fight that ignores enmity and where you can't heal others in the back half is more of a gimmick than the other fights in the game". That argument would hold more weight if holding emnity wasn't mostly a case of "do a combo twice" and maybe adding some in if your DPSes never use their own enmity reducers. Using active cooldowns in the vast majority of of content means knowing when to soak a tankbuster or something. In the Great Hunt you're still having moments where you do that (mostly Garuda or pointing the coeurl away from the team) and otherwise you're doing the same thing you do in every other fight. I would agree if holding enmity for a tank was at ALL an involved process but it isn't. The tank stuff that is most interesting involves positioning or two-tank situations, the latter of which obviously doesn't work in a 4-man content. (Well, it can because 4 warriors can poo poo on Rathalos but that's more because the fight has piss-low damage for everything that isn't avoidable attacks and you get 10 free benefics at the start of every fight.)
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Sep 30, 2018 20:28
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oh no blimp issue posted:Yes I know, but why would that be an example of why hard 4 man content doesn't work outside of gimmicks? There's no reason it couldn't work, but what would you hope 4 man trials could accomplish that you couldn't in the accepted 8-player trial format? I understand the "why not," but I don't yet see the "why."
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Sep 30, 2018 20:30
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There's a few things you could add to encounters that would increase the tank's role more in 4-mans, like having attacks to intercept (ala the drones on A4) or requiring more precise boss movement to prevent it from roasting the party. I think they're (justifiably) cautious about making the role too difficult at the high end, though, considering the general paucity of tanks.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:31
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ChaseSP posted:So is it too late to really get into Savage content in the new patch? I guess I should work on getting geared for the EX primal first before worrying about savage. If your gear is solid enough and you can play well to hit any of the checks, it is possible to squeeze through on PF.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:31
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Vermain posted:There's a few things you could add to encounters that would increase the tank's role more in 4-mans, like having attacks to intercept (ala the drones on A4) or requiring more precise boss movement to prevent it from roasting the party. I think they're (justifiably) cautious about making the role too difficult at the high end, though, considering the general paucity of tanks. I played tank for all of Stormblood's first raiding tier and found it to be unengaging. I switched to dps which was both more satisfying and more challenging and never looked back. If Square ever revamps tanking mechanics so there's actual thought and reaction involved then I'll go back to the role. Until then it's just a gimped DPS that's the designated big-attack-soaker.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:52
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Gah, for the first time with an MMO I'm not keen on getting to the level cap. Currently filling in the exploration logs and other stuff like it.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:55
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ImpAtom posted:I have to admit I'm not sure what makes that a gimmick and not almost every other major fight. Is it a gimmick that Omega 4 doesn't let you attack a certain enemy? Is it a gimmick that most fights have a hard time limit, or a gimmick that you have to run into portals or a gimmick that you have to stop and play DDR or... well you get the idea. Those mechanics are entirely unique to that fight and aren't seen in any other. Same way Steps of Faith is a gimmick. All fights have enrages. None of a 3 deaths and you're out rule. It's not about whether or not it bothers you. Gimmick isn't inherently an insult. Except in the cases of the 2 fights I named, since neither is very fun.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:57
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lightrook posted:There's no reason it couldn't work, but what would you hope 4 man trials could accomplish that you couldn't in the accepted 8-player trial format? I understand the "why not," but I don't yet see the "why." A lower barrier to entry Plenty of times I've had 3 other mates online and we've wanted to do something that isn't maps. That and it'd be fun?
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Sep 30, 2018 20:58
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SonicRulez posted:Those mechanics are entirely unique to that fight and aren't seen in any other. Same way Steps of Faith is a gimmick. All fights have enrages. None of a 3 deaths and you're out rule. It's not about whether or not it bothers you. Gimmick isn't inherently an insult. That doesn't really make any sense to me. Every mechanic in the game is introduced as the only fight in the game with that gimmick. If your argument is "it's bad because no other fight has it" then... yeah, part of how FFXIV's language develops is that a fight is introduced with a gimmick and it gradually starts appearing in other fights. (With that said I'd be surprised if that gimmick appeared in another fight but I'm also not expecting to play DDR or skydive through orbs again anytime soon.)
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Sep 30, 2018 21:04
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Fights like Suzaku have a transition phase where the normal mechanics of Final Fantasy XIV are changed for like 30 seconds. Rathalos is a fight where all of it works on different mechanics from start to finish. That is what I consider to be a gimmicky fight. I'm not of the opinion that it's impossible to make good 4 man content that isn't gimmicky. Just that if Rathalos is an example of that coming to fruition, it's not what I want to see in the game.
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Sep 30, 2018 21:17
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Mango Polo posted:What would be the argument against a WoW-esque mythic+ system? I guess locking gear/rewards behind it, since there's no real random loot in 14... But hopefully that wouldn't be the case. Obviously this is all subjective, but in addition to the gear thing - which was the primary motivator for people to do Mythic+, as much as I personally enjoy just pushing for improved times and high scores - there's the fact that a lot of the difficulty of WoW mythic+ comes from trash and WoW characters have a lot more tools for confronting that. WoW classes have lots more CC than FFXIV, both soft and hard between snares, slows, interrupts, stuns, polymorphs, and all their AoE versions. FFXIV job growth is almost entirely just giving you tools to do more damage (or to mitigate damage/heal damage). They aren't versatile or mobile and I think that would greatly limit the ability to design things like the random suffixes in Mythic+. I think difficult interesting 4-person content for FFXIV would just have to be deliberately designed encounters. Which I think the FFXIV team is very capable of doing!! But yeah
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Sep 30, 2018 21:39
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Short answer: I killed a sprite to cap off my 30 chain and got a light proc Long answer: Light is loving weird and a pain in the rear end. Think of it like XP except what the mobs are capable of doing effects the returns. Adaptation - Low Chance at light, and low light in general, gets cold warped lockboxes Mutation - High chance at light, but low light. NM mobs - Low chance at light and low light Non-Mutating/Adapting - Low chance at light, but tons of light when it goes off Sprites - 20% additional light and follows the above rules What I did in that instance was hang out near the bunny FATE in the south and killed yarzons which are High Yield/Low Proc using the levelsync exploit. When light would proc I'd get either Bright or Brilliant which is 1 bar and 1.5 bars respectively, and I'd get this on average maybe every 90 kills, figure about 10 minutes per chain. When there's snow or lightning there's sprites that don't mutate, or adapt in the area, so they're high yield/low proc and have an extra 20% boost to it. So weather permitting I would kill a sprite as my 5th kill. I just happened to get obscenely lucky and got an light proc on the end of my chain from a sprite. South Dragons is probably the most consistent light per hour at around 2. Forge/North Dragons is around 1.5 light an hour (Forge is considerably more relaxed than either dragons imho) Yarzons can range from 0 to 4 light an hour. In my case I got around 8 light in just under 2 hours. If gambling isn't your thing, the wolves in the same area as the bunny FATE are fairly consistent and on par with the Forge/North Dragons. If it's Fog the Aspas to the south are also fairly consistent.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:32
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As someone who's never played WoW (other than like maybe upto level 25 or something years ago), could someone explain what Mythic+ does? I understand it has something to do with dungeons?
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Sep 30, 2018 23:41
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Alright, so what I got from that explanation is to never go back and be happy with my Elemental Tuck.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:41
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SonicRulez posted:Fights like Suzaku have a transition phase where the normal mechanics of Final Fantasy XIV are changed for like 30 seconds. Rathalos is a fight where all of it works on different mechanics from start to finish. That is what I consider to be a gimmicky fight. I'm not of the opinion that it's impossible to make good 4 man content that isn't gimmicky. Just that if Rathalos is an example of that coming to fruition, it's not what I want to see in the game. Rathalos isn't even the first boss fight in the game not to have traditional aggro mechanics (Giruveganaus and all its variations) and outside of that it is absolutely standard FFXIV stuff. The healing thing is the only major change and saying 'it work on completely different mechanics" is a bit much. I'm not saying they did a great job on the healer's role in the fight (cuz they didn't) but it isn't like you're suddenly playing a different game. You're traditional healing for the first part and then Esuna-And-DPSing for the second, neither of which is suddenly different, it's just boring you're transformed into a DPSbot for that part. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 23:41
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ImpAtom posted:Rathalos isn't even the first boss fight in the game not to have traditional aggro mechanics and outside of that it is absolutely standard FFXIV stuff. You keep ignoring the "no healing" part of it for some reason. Like, I have no stance on this but it's weird that you keep fixating on aggro tables instead of like, the thing that makes that fight memorable.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:42
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Teleporting around the world and taking pictures = better use of time than Pagos. 
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Sep 30, 2018 23:44
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Arist posted:You keep ignoring the "no healing" part of it for some reason. Like, I have no stance on this but it's weird that you keep fixating on aggro tables instead of like, the thing that makes that fight memorable. I edited it to focus on that while you were posting but 'no healing' really isn't as significant as you make it out to be because you have access to 10 full heals per character. Yes, it's a different kind of mechanic but it's literally the same as using potions in a fight where your healer goes down without a res. I don't know, maybe my opinion is skewed becasue I main healer but I didn't actually change how I played much from section 1 to section 2 except I had to depend on people healing themselves with duty action instead of me pausing occasionally in DPSing to do it.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:45
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ImpAtom posted:I edited it to focus on that while you were posting but 'no healing' really isn't as significant as you make it out to be because you have access to 10 full heals per character. Yes, it's a different kind of mechanic but it's literally the same as using potions in a fight where your healer goes down without a res. "As a main healer I had to not do half my job, but it's not a gimmick I swear"
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Sep 30, 2018 23:48
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Something I just noticed, when you first show up to Ishgard, remember these kids? They would throw snowballs at you if you approach. But presumably after beating Heavensward...  They salute you!
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Sep 30, 2018 23:49
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Veotax posted:As someone who's never played WoW (other than like maybe upto level 25 or something years ago), could someone explain what Mythic+ does? I understand it has something to do with dungeons? It adds modifiers to the dungeon (like exploding on death, more health, or taking less threat from the tank etc.), and allows you to keep doing tougher and tougher versions of the dungeons for a bigger weekly reward based off your hardest dungeon completed within a time limit.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:50
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If you've ever played Diablo III think of it like that, where enemies get modifiers and on higher difficulties these start stacking.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:52
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Leal posted:Something I just noticed, when you first show up to Ishgard, remember these kids? The little details like this are amazing. I probably only notice a tiny amount of them.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:52
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oh no blimp issue posted:"As a main healer I had to not do half my job, but it's not a gimmick I swear" ... I mean, yes? There's a segment where I'm not healing. This goes for a lot of fights. I minimize the number of heals I cast in general and there are plenty of segments in fights of all three roles where I'm not doing the main duty of my theoretical job because of boss mechanics or because it's designed for me to do something else. Plus it isn't like it's just sitting around doing nothing like invincible moments in boss fights or whatever. I'm DPSing the boss the exact same way I do 75% of the time in regular fights anyway and occasionally popping off an esuna instead of a Tetragrammaton.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:52
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Leal posted:They salute you! They still throw snowballs at you. 
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Sep 30, 2018 23:56
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