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Das Boo
Jun 9, 2011

There was a GHOST here.
It's gone now.

Robindaybird posted:

Could we just do away with the concept of 'your true love is the first guy you locked eyes with'?

There has to be some weird old folk tale about this being insisted on so much that the young lady stabs her eyes out.

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Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I keep telling yas that romantic comedies and cartoon subplots have done way worse in warping young people's ideas of relationships than porn ever could.

And I keep thinking you're wrong because as romantic comedies have died and porn has become omnipresent, young people have not become emotionally healthier in any readily identifiable way.

The MSJ
May 17, 2010

Now they learn from memes, that's why.

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy
Any love outside of marriage is warped and sinful. Mu wives and I are perfectly happy in our desert compound.

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

~Groovy~


Pick posted:

And I keep thinking you're wrong because as romantic comedies have died and porn has become omnipresent, young people have not become emotionally healthier in any readily identifiable way.

And I keep telling EVERYONE that all movies (including both romantic comedies and pornographic ones) are a reflection of society as a whole and that rather than simply teaching lessons they reinforce ideals that are already prevalent in our culture and that we must figure out WHY these ideals exist before we can improve things in any meaningful way! Which in turn leads to people telling ME "Ma'am, this is a Cracker Barrel, please stop yelling at the customers"!

....wait, what was the question?

Regalingualius
Jan 7, 2012

We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.




Das Boo posted:

There has to be some weird old folk tale about this being insisted on so much that the young lady stabs her eyes out.

And then the rest of the story becomes some dude going out on a quest to find her eyes/magical replacements, and ends with her ironically falling in love with him at first sight.

Or stabbing the hell out of him. It could really go either way.

resurgam40
Jul 22, 2007

Battler, the literal stupidest man on earth. Why are you even here, Battler, why did you come back to this place so you could fuck literally everything up?

Space Cadet Omoly posted:

And I keep telling EVERYONE that all movies (including both romantic comedies and pornographic ones) are a reflection of society as a whole and that rather than simply teaching lessons they reinforce ideals that are already prevalent in our culture and that we must figure out WHY these ideals exist before we can improve things in any meaningful way! Which in turn leads to people telling ME "Ma'am, this is a Cracker Barrel, please stop yelling at the customers"!

....wait, what was the question?

You joke, I know, but as a librarian (even though I'll probably never be a curator of children's materials) I do think it is important that we think about what the kids are watching, why they like it, and what they take away from the movie, as well as what the movie is trying to teach. And such a thought process can be painful sometimes, because it can lead to the realization that the stuff you loved as a child yourself had deeply harmful, regressive messaging you didn't even notice until you thought about it. I, for example, love Boy Meets World growing up; it was part of TGIF and to me it was funny... but if I had a child, I wouldn't show it to them at the same age, because I don't want them getting the idea that they're a failure who will never find love if the don't find their "soul mate" in high school. There are also issues with political strawmanning, ageism, and the annoyingly centrist politics that television sitcoms were mired in at the time, but it isn't an animated feature so let's cut that off here... But yes, that largely is why I've stayed away from HT and other animated features, because they provide a recidivist, unrealistic, and even morally repugnant idea of relationships or family values (I will kill you, Despicable Me 2...) and I do not wish to support that.

(This, by the by, is another point in Smallfoot's favor: no romance. There's a crush, but it's never portrayed as that important and is pretty well forgotten when things pick up.)

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Despicable Me 2 is such a loving regressive film it still astounds me.

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006



College Slice
I don't think any media is ever really going to get healthy relationships completely right because they don't really make good entertainment. Real life healthy relationships are all about boredom, and that's not a bad thing. Most people outside of war zones and other horrible places probably spend 90% of their time being bored. The secret to a good relationship is finding someone you're okay being bored with. Someone you can fold laundry with on a Sunday morning or shop for blinds on a Tuesday afternoon. Movies and television compulsively focus on the beginning of relationships because that's the part that's new and exciting and so people get this idea that the whole relationship is supposed to be like that and when it's not they think there's something wrong with them or their partner and they try to inject drama into things.

We need to teach kids that entertainment is entertainment, and has no real bearing on our real lives.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Good relationships aren’t boring wtf :psyduck:

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006



College Slice
Of course they are. You should want them to be.

I just spent the past four months helping my wife recover from brain surgery. It was all terribly exciting and I hope I never have to go through anything like it again.

Boring is the best.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
A lot of people crave drama and conflict in their lives, and they are absolutely horrible people to be around and make themselves miserable all the time.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
and nurturing is boring to you, huh

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
It's sick and horrific that you think that the axis of interest runs from "boring ---------------- teenagers yelling"

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
I suspect y'all are just using the word differently.

Peaceful and boring aren't the same thing. It's an especially hard distinction to draw in fiction, though, because the experience of peacefulness isn't boring but the depiction of peacefulness usually is, or at least it has to work way harder not to be.

Regalingualius
Jan 7, 2012

We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.




Barudak posted:

Despicable Me 2 is such a loving regressive film it still astounds me.

Especially when not just the first film, but it’s own opening, totally contradicts it’s “single parents are incapable” message.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Barudak posted:

Despicable Me 2 is such a loving regressive film it still astounds me.

It's foul.

ishikabibble
Jan 21, 2012

Phylodox posted:

I don't think any media is ever really going to get healthy relationships completely right because they don't really make good entertainment. Real life healthy relationships are all about boredom, and that's not a bad thing. Most people outside of war zones and other horrible places probably spend 90% of their time being bored. The secret to a good relationship is finding someone you're okay being bored with. Someone you can fold laundry with on a Sunday morning or shop for blinds on a Tuesday afternoon. Movies and television compulsively focus on the beginning of relationships because that's the part that's new and exciting and so people get this idea that the whole relationship is supposed to be like that and when it's not they think there's something wrong with them or their partner and they try to inject drama into things.

We need to teach kids that entertainment is entertainment, and has no real bearing on our real lives.

That last point is particularly salient and a hard agree from me, but I have a feeling things are only going further in the opposite direction.

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006



College Slice

Pick posted:

and nurturing is boring to you, huh

Is it exciting? Would you watch a half-hour TV show about it?

Life is boring. If you’re doing it right, at least. Life is doing the dishes and going to work and going shopping for healthy foods that aren’t too bland. Life is sitting on the couch and reading Internet forums. Life is worrying about budgets and taxes. The really exciting bits are only a small fraction of that. So, if you’re with someone you can only stand during those tiny fractions, how long do you think you’ll be happy together?

A good relationship isn’t about finding someone who bores you, it’s about finding someone who you can be bored with.

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!
You can still portray conflict and drama within the context of healthy relationships. Not that that's all that should ever be portrayed, but that's outside the scope of this conversation (and should probably be outside the scope of kids' media as well).

An example that immediately comes to mind because my kids just discovered it is My Neighbor Totoro. Not every movie can or should be like that, because it's ridiculously chill, but the characters all treat each other really well. The stresses of life eventually cause some tension and outbursts that need to get resolved, but their relationships are still about as healthy as can be expected.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

I honestly love The Mummy Returns because Rick and Evie are a happily married couple who had some bickering, but they're in it together and are a healthy couple.

Especially given so many movies in the same genre would break up the couple to have them fall in love again (National Treasure), or have the hero move onto the next girl (Indiana Jones, James Bond, etc) in the sequel.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Now, in fairness, Indy and Marion got back together in the end.

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

~Groovy~


There are plenty of shows that have happily married main characters (Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn Nine Nine, the first few seasons of the Simpsons) that still manage to be extremely entertaining. The characters have a good dynamic and they work to overcome problems together (because being in a healthy relationship doesn't mean everything issue in your life is solved forever).

Honestly, I find the opposite situation to be much more annoying, were you have characters in a clearly toxic relationship (Rick and Morty, a disturbing amount of mid-2000 sitcoms, later seasons of The Simpsons) and they keep fighting about the same things over and over again and there's no reason for them to stay together yet they do and it's VERY boring and unpleasant to watch.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747
I feel like Rick and Morty is better than usual for the trope you don't like; the family dynamic is honestly pretty well-thought-out and consistent, and there's a clear and I believe directly stated reason (Morty's well-being) why the family sticks together.

e: Also, Beth and Jerry don't fight often, so much as their personalities clash hard and they don't actually like being around each other. It's a depressing situation, definitely, but it's one that's pretty relatable.

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler

Space Cadet Omoly posted:

Honestly, I find the opposite situation to be much more annoying, were you have characters in a clearly toxic relationship (Rick and Morty, a disturbing amount of mid-2000 sitcoms, later seasons of The Simpsons) and they keep fighting about the same things over and over again and there's no reason for them to stay together yet they do and it's VERY boring and unpleasant to watch.

I've rewatched Friends a number of times and I'm sure a lot of kids learned some bad lessons about relationships from watching Ross and Rachel emotionally abuse each other for years.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Friends was training in sociopathy

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Let's not forget the sheer amount of "My wife the battleaxe", and "The Ol' Ball of Chain" jokes that's been around since at least the 1920s if not way earlier, and even to the point you can get wedding cake toppers of the bride dragging the groom, or even have him tied up.

There's way too much culture baggage that every woman should and must get married and it's their ultimate goal in life, and while every man must settle down, but marriage means the end of fun times and must be put off as long as possible.

Beachcomber
May 21, 2007

Another day in paradise.


Slippery Tilde
Being tied up is the beginning of the fun.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law is coming back as a special on adult swim (its animated, and a special is sorta like a movie...)

In terms of joke density that show was up there with Arrested Development, only packed into 11 minutes. It'll be interesting to see if it can work as a standalone special and how many callbacks it'll include. Hopefully it wont be as disappointing as Arrested Development's comeback.

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

~Groovy~


LORD OF BOOTY posted:

I feel like Rick and Morty is better than usual for the trope you don't like; the family dynamic is honestly pretty well-thought-out and consistent, and there's a clear and I believe directly stated reason (Morty's well-being) why the family sticks together.

e: Also, Beth and Jerry don't fight often, so much as their personalities clash hard and they don't actually like being around each other. It's a depressing situation, definitely, but it's one that's pretty relatable.

Yeah, in fairness to Rick and Morty: it's really only the first two seasons that have the tired bad marriage dynamic and it mostly just stands out because the rest series is so good. In the third season Beth and Jerry actually do get divorced and only get back together after working on their own issues separately for a while, which lead to some great episodes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avbFUPZRPOU

Robindaybird posted:

Let's not forget the sheer amount of "My wife the battleaxe", and "The Ol' Ball of Chain" jokes that's been around since at least the 1920s if not way earlier, and even to the point you can get wedding cake toppers of the bride dragging the groom, or even have him tied up.

There's way too much culture baggage that every woman should and must get married and it's their ultimate goal in life, and while every man must settle down, but marriage means the end of fun times and must be put off as long as possible.

God, those jokes get more and more depressing the more you think about them. Entire generations of people were (and often still are) stuck in bad or downright abusive relationships for potentially their entire lives because that was what society demanded and they couldn't imagine living any other way.

EDIT:

Ccs posted:

Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law is coming back as a special on adult swim (its animated, and a special is sorta like a movie...)

In terms of joke density that show was up there with Arrested Development, only packed into 11 minutes. It'll be interesting to see if it can work as a standalone special and how many callbacks it'll include. Hopefully it wont be as disappointing as Arrested Development's comeback.

Oh HELL yes! :D Even if it ends up being bad, this gives me an excuse to go back and watch the entire series so I count this as a win for me. I suggest everyone else do the same, that show was great.

Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Oct 1, 2018

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Blackwatch Plaid too real.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


Blackwatch Plaid and Sebben & Sebben New Employee Orientation are my all time favorite episodes.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Good call, those are the best two.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Play the PS2 game if you havent. Its an absolute joy and the best Phoenix Wright game

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Robindaybird posted:

Let's not forget the sheer amount of "My wife the battleaxe", and "The Ol' Ball of Chain" jokes that's been around since at least the 1920s if not way earlier, and even to the point you can get wedding cake toppers of the bride dragging the groom, or even have him tied up.

There's way too much culture baggage that every woman should and must get married and it's their ultimate goal in life, and while every man must settle down, but marriage means the end of fun times and must be put off as long as possible.

Pigbuster
Sep 12, 2010

Fun Shoe
Harvey playing tubular bells on the wine glasses might be the hardest I’ve ever laughed at a TV show.

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007



resurgam40 posted:

I just got back from Smallfoot, in a matinee showing with me and like two other people with a kid (because it was a nice day outside and everyone apparently wants to take walks or play outside during those). And yeah, it was cute!

I knew I would like the animation and character designs going in, due to the previews, but the set design and lighting are genuinely very nice, baking really good use of lighting and color to establish tone and mood. It's also a musical, which still surprises me when any movie not Disney does it, and the songs are all... OK? I guess? (One was a remix of Ice Ice Baby/Under pressure, which I found "Eh", and the one I liked the most is a rap song, presumably written by Common...) They didn't impress me, but they weren't bad, and stayed on message. Which was a good message, to be sure: don't fear the unknown, be open to communication- probably all of the things you surmised from the trailer. That's no surprise, but what is a surprise is just how dark they were willing to go- the invocation of dark humor to underline the potential dangers of the status quo, in the descriptions of Migo's family and what being the Gongringer entails over time, the harshness of the scene in which the Stonekeeper reveals the truth about the village and why they live there (probably my favorite scene in the whole movie, the cinematography is very good), and a fairly intense and final action beat that is played straight and sincere (beyond a pretty funny Pac Man gag). Sincerity is pretty much the watchword of this movie; it's earnest in a way that I haven't really seen in a lot of kid's movies, eschewing sarcasm and times for gags and scat humor* for plot and character development... which will probably cost in the box office, as gag a minute dance raves a la Trolls is "what the kiddies want", according to the reviewers who asserted that their own kids were bored when they took them. Wonder if that's why it got the dreaded PG rating... no, that was probably the aforementioned thematic elements. (But given that both Trolls and Wreck it Ralph, as well as every other animated movie I've seen, has a PG rating, the MPAA may have just gone ahead and retired the G rating.)

Also, would you look at that: no dance party ending, just a cheesy group shot photograph one. All in all, liked it, would recommend, hope it does very well so more movies like it will be made.

*Although the way they use that humor is my preferred method of doing so: second or two gags that are integrated subtly and not highlighted at all by anyone. And, Yeah! Thumbs Up! That's how you do it.

Unfortunately, this probably won't do too well with Venom dropping this weekend.

Didn't Sony do Smallfoot? If so, they apparently didn't have much confidence in it.

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

~Groovy~


Okay, so I've watched 3 episodes of Harvey Birdman so far and they all hold up, the jokes are hilarious and I STRONGLY recommend this show.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.


and as Space Cadet Omoly commented, the jokes were definitely understandable in the era before Divorce became both simpler and socially acceptable - and when women weren't completely loving screwed by the system (Las Vegas got it's kickstart due to being in a state with lax divorce laws that didn't entirely throw women out into the cold :science:, the casinos and quickie wedding chapels came later). And even then, you have - especially among Catholic-dominated communities - a stigma against divorcees for being bad parents, selfish, and oathbreakers - and that they didn't 'try hard enough', it really wasn't until the 1970s that Divorce stopped becoming a dirty word in the mainstream.

What's depressing is this idea continues on to this very day, where a lot of family Sitcoms end up with the couple absolutely hating each other's guts, but divorce is never on the table, or that the men are basically obnoxious manchildren, and the wife always has to put up with it and being the responsible person and no one really comments on how unfair that dynamic is.

But yeah, as I've gotten older, I've learned to really despise that kind of humor.

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Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016

It is curious and wants to accept all kinds of challenges

ThermoPhysical posted:

Didn't Sony do Smallfoot? If so, they apparently didn't have much confidence in it.

Smallfoot is Warner Bros and I've heard surprisingly good things about it

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