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akadajet posted:yeah, c# is totally a hipster lang well microsoft *is* cool again, so...
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Oct 2, 2018 04:25
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Thermopyle posted:You're talking to programmers here not with uml you’re not
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Oct 2, 2018 04:46
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akadajet posted:yeah, c# is totally a hipster lang dotnet core is c# for hipsters. like graal. maybe too long after go to pick up any of the "i need somehing that runs on linux and is fast and IS NOT JAVA NEVER JAVA" crowd but that doesnt change what it is
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Oct 2, 2018 08:36
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:dotnet core is c# for hipsters. like graal. maybe too long after go to pick up any of the "i need somehing that runs on linux and is fast and IS NOT JAVA NEVER JAVA" crowd but that doesnt change what it is alternatively: we have a bunch of c# developers but we need this to run on linux servers because lol at using windows server
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Oct 2, 2018 08:41
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Boiled Water posted:alternatively: we have a bunch of c# developers but we need this to run on linux servers because lol at using windows server but tco
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Oct 2, 2018 08:50
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:but tco .net can do tco easily though, unlike the jvm where there’s no invoketail instruction yet
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Oct 2, 2018 09:22
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:dotnet core is c# for hipsters that alone is reason enough to stay on the jvm (and maven and intellij of course)
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Oct 2, 2018 09:35
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the quoted terms right there say you can use oracle jdk to develop your commercial application, which is probably the only thing you'd be doing with a win32 or macos build of the jdk if you add a jdk to a server image to actually deploy your commercial application it's gonna be openjdk by default if you really want oracle jdk installed on a server then that's not something you can easily accomplish by accident since no package manager ships it and if you have a commercial java gui application then you deserve all the pain and suffering that entails anyway
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Oct 2, 2018 10:19
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I know nothing about Java, so forgive my ignorance. Is OpenJDK a viable alternative to regular JDK? If not, why?
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Oct 2, 2018 11:08
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ratbert90 posted:I know nothing about Java, so forgive my ignorance. it used to just be entirely viable to the point where most people didn't know about the (granted, cool and useful) additions in the oracle jdk as part of this relicensing change oracle open-sourced those remaining bits however, so now openjdk is 1:1 the same as the oracle jdk. the one difference you may notice is that oracle only provides the windows/mac openjdk as a tarball, the branded installer is just for oracle jdk right at this moment the changes really look like a win for the open-source side of java, we'll see if oracle now intends to redifferentiate their own jdk from openjdk, but there seems to be no reason to make the last very large contributions in that case (and the product manager blog goes "From Java 11 forward, therefore, Oracle JDK builds and OpenJDK builds will be essentially identical.") so i think they are just intending to make the oracle jdk the rhel to the openjdks centos
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Oct 2, 2018 11:46
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i used to work for a company with a commercial java gui program they were paying for a sun support contract anyway, i assume that’s still the case
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Oct 2, 2018 15:25
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I don’t see how this is a problem for gui programs. isn’t the idea that you will use jigsaw to make a cut-down openjdk that you will then bundle with your app? or is there some way that will require you to open source everything?
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Oct 2, 2018 15:40
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Soricidus posted:I don’t see how this is a problem for gui programs. isn’t the idea that you will use jigsaw to make a cut-down openjdk that you will then bundle with your app? or is there some way that will require you to open source everything? i *think* it is people running with the idea that windows and macos users will just accidentally run the oracle jdk installer rather than seek out openjdk, it is a bit of a confusing lens to view things through though
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Oct 2, 2018 15:49
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Sagacity posted:too bad the entire dotnet open source community still seems to consist of approximately seven people the army of contributors employed by microsoft reduces the necessity to depend on random third parties for basic functionality. that's a feature, not a bug.
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Oct 2, 2018 15:56
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Fiedler posted:random third parties for basic functionality god forbid you need anything beyond a basic rest api at least the army of contributors made sure the csproj format is now really trivial, you don't even need to include any guids anymore!
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Oct 2, 2018 17:03
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:i *think* it is people running with the idea that windows and macos users will just accidentally run the oracle jdk installer rather than seek out openjdk, it is a bit of a confusing lens to view things through though yeah but the idea is you bundle an openjdk in your app and end users will never install java themselves, so this would only affect commercial apps if they’re really dumb and made by companies without legal departments or w/e unless there’s some poison pill in the openjdk license, but I think the classpath exception covers this kind of thing?
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Oct 2, 2018 17:04
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Sagacity posted:too bad the entire dotnet open source community still seems to consist of approximately seven people
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Oct 2, 2018 17:07
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Soricidus posted:yeah but the idea is you bundle an openjdk in your app and end users will never install java themselves, so this would only affect commercial apps if they’re really dumb and made by companies without legal departments or w/e I think that was one of the motivations for jigsaw.
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Oct 2, 2018 17:28
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Sagacity posted:god forbid you need anything beyond a basic rest api give an example of what you're missing also, csproj file format didn't ever matter before linux users wanted to write c# without having the proper tools (visual studio)
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Oct 2, 2018 17:33
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mystes posted:Yeah I think java has moved in the same direction as a lot of other programming languages recently and end users aren't supposed to have a single global runtime installed anymore? more like it has never been sane to deploy an app to a user's computer depending on a system JRE even intellij bundles a JRE now and you can't even use intellij without cj'ing JDKs
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Oct 2, 2018 17:40
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:more like it has never been sane to deploy an app to a user's computer depending on a system JRE yeah, we don’t bundle a jre and literally half our support calls are resolved by getting people to replace their random old jre with the latest oracle java 8. it’s bad. it was just about ok for the long java 5/6 years but no way it’s viable today luckily we’re finally able to update to modern java so bundling openjdk 11 is just round the corner!
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Oct 2, 2018 17:45
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It was never a good idea, but I think Oracle encouraged it because until they finally killed the browser plugin they needed people to have system installations in order to not break lovely websites made by idiots who were still using applets (possibly a surprising amount of enterprise software?) Edit: In comparison, Microsoft is only just starting the process of moving away from system installations of .net in the form of .net core, and it's not even going to be possible to make desktop applications using .net core until the next version comes out. mystes fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 18:01
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i wrote some dotnet on os x in rider recently and bundled it in a linux docker thing. it was a surprisingly nice experience
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Oct 2, 2018 18:05
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Destroyenator posted:i wrote some dotnet on os x in rider recently and bundled it in a linux docker thing. it was a surprisingly nice experience dont forget to pick a spot in the dotnet core deadpool
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Oct 2, 2018 18:13
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Soricidus posted:yeah, we don’t bundle a jre and literally half our support calls are resolved by getting people to replace their random old jre with the latest oracle java 8. it’s bad. it was just about ok for the long java 5/6 years but no way it’s viable today But 'write once run anywhere'  I mean if you're shipping your own JRE for every platform you support you might as well write your GUI app in native code with Qt or something and be smaller, faster and less of a memory hog. What's a VM even buying you, really?
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Oct 2, 2018 20:27
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feedmegin posted:But 'write once run anywhere' god there are some amazing takes today. yeah, why the hell would anyone just slot in a completely 1:1 compatible open source replacement runtime when they could plunge millions of dollars and years of development effort into rewriting the whole thing in loving c++
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Oct 2, 2018 20:38
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carry on then posted:god there are some amazing takes today. I mean in a wider conceptual sense I guess. Yeah, if you already have your Java GUI app then I agree, it's just funny to me because Java's whole initial selling point back in the 90s was specifically not having to do this thing.
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Oct 2, 2018 20:56
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feedmegin posted:I mean in a wider conceptual sense I guess. Yeah, if you already have your Java GUI app then I agree, it's just funny to me because Java's whole initial selling point back in the 90s was specifically not having to do this thing. mehhhhhhhh. having to find and distribute some kind of jre per platform is a different difficulty from having to build your software per platform depending on the platform and the jres on offer, sometimes the former is easier, sometimes the latter?
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Oct 2, 2018 20:59
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feedmegin posted:But 'write once run anywhere' mystes fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 21:09
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Soricidus posted:I don’t see how this is a problem for gui programs. isn’t the idea that you will use jigsaw to make a cut-down openjdk that you will then bundle with your app? or is there some way that will require you to open source everything? I presume there are a lot of dumb companies that only test on Oracle JRE & JDK and haven't noticed that OpenJDK has existed and been the primary JVM for a while. Oracle can happily ring up the register.
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Oct 2, 2018 21:39
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over beers my team had the thought exercise of "what if we had to leave the jvm" elixir was probably the leading replacement candidate which would be really interesting as much as i like c#
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Oct 3, 2018 17:22
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hell yeah come be friends on the erlang vm
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Oct 3, 2018 20:24
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posting on the oceans blue page
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Oct 3, 2018 20:46
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elixir feels like one of those things that will die soon
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Oct 4, 2018 00:52
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prisoner of waffles posted:posting on the
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Oct 4, 2018 04:30
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jit bull transpile posted:
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Oct 4, 2018 12:00
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redleader posted:elixir feels like one of those things that will die soon too closely related to erlang, which is not about to die
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Oct 4, 2018 12:09
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But how can something die if it hasn't had a chance to be born
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Oct 4, 2018 12:16
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things are heating up in the rust parsing community
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Oct 4, 2018 15:21
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the author is right 
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Oct 4, 2018 15:28
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