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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Frustratingly, it seems like Paradox actually got rid of a really good CK2 bundle recently that contained most of the major DLC for a hefty discount. It was up for months and now it's gone (the love bundle or whatever). These kinds of decisions are baffling to me. It's like they actively want to make their games harder to get into. Seeing as Deus Vult is the last/penultimate DLC, I can see why they would remove a bundle like that if they are planning on doing a new bundle soon. It also might have been a test for exactly what you guys are saying to lower the barrier for entry, if it didn't post good numbers they are going to take it down because it's making them less money. Plenty of literally genius reasons for doing taking it off. e; quote for next page
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Oct 4, 2018 18:16
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Gort posted:You want to know which DLC lets you buy development. Go to that page, CTRL-F, type development, first result in the list of DLCs is "Common Sense". Before patch buildings worked totally different, but there was no scenario where you couldn't build what you wanted. They added a limitation in the free patch and a feature to bypass that limitation in the paid DLC. Also just to clarify because my post was kind of an aimless ramble- I was never confused about which DLC I needed specifically to unlock building slots, that just got me looking at DLC in general to figure out what else I might need or enjoy and figuring out what's a useful or fun feature and what's bloat was a daunting task to say the least so I gave up on the whole thing.
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Oct 4, 2018 20:03
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The only significant reason the building limitation matters is if you want to make The Raddest Capital to feel good about your mega empire. People whine about that change a ridiculous amount but in gameplay terms it’s almost irrelevant.
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Oct 4, 2018 20:39
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Frustratingly, it seems like Paradox actually got rid of a really good CK2 bundle recently that contained most of the major DLC for a hefty discount. It was up for months and now it's gone (the love bundle or whatever). These kinds of decisions are baffling to me. It's like they actively want to make their games harder to get into.
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Oct 4, 2018 21:05
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Frustratingly, it seems like Paradox actually got rid of a really good CK2 bundle recently that contained most of the major DLC for a hefty discount. It was up for months and now it's gone (the love bundle or whatever). These kinds of decisions are baffling to me. It's like they actively want to make their games harder to get into. I was reading the CK2 thread on here and it seemed like a really cool game, saw some mention of this sale but I was too late for it. poo poo's just too expensive, it made me throw in the towel on buying CK2. so I just borrowed my friend's copy. maybe they'll get me as a customer when CK3 rolls around
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Oct 4, 2018 21:46
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You don't need all the DLC to enjoy it. In fact, we were enjoying it when there was no DLC 
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Oct 4, 2018 21:57
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indigi posted:I was reading the CK2 thread on here and it seemed like a really cool game, saw some mention of this sale but I was too late for it. poo poo's just too expensive, it made me throw in the towel on buying CK2. so I just borrowed my friend's copy. maybe they'll get me as a customer when CK3 rolls around you don't really need dlc, but if all you pick up is ck2 + conclave + way of life that is the best core experience and then you can pick up other dlc depending on what it has that interests you. but even just bare bones no dlc ck2 is fine conclave overhauls how councils work and makes them more interesting, and gives you some internal politics to deal with. way of life lets you give your ruler lifestyle choices like partying, hunting, loving, praying etc. that let your character grow a bit over time and gives you things to do when you're not painting the map or doing murders. every other dlc just fleshes out some other less important system or unlocks different play styles Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Oct 4, 2018 |
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Oct 4, 2018 22:21
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Just get old gods and play vikings All the other stuff is superflous
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Oct 4, 2018 22:45
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:I mean Rome is all the imperialism of Vicky but with a smaller map and no gunboats, so I really don't see the appeal. Ostensibly it's supposed to be EU: Rome, but better - except I don't know why people enjoyed its predecessor. Gameplay-wise it was like EU3, except with most of the map empty. The internal politics was much simpler than in Victoria and was mostly about getting the right faction elected so you can get the bonus you want. The characters had traits, but with the fuckload of people in your empire and not a lot of different events involving them, you never had a reason to care. Civil wars were nice and different from the standard "a stack of rebels spawns in the province", but that's not enough to make a game out of of.
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Oct 5, 2018 00:04
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EU + internal politics = the perfect game
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Oct 5, 2018 00:14
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luxury handset posted:you don't really need dlc, but if all you pick up is ck2 + conclave + way of life that is the best core experience and then you can pick up other dlc depending on what it has that interests you. but even just bare bones no dlc ck2 is fine This is what I did about two weeks ago and I can’t put the game down. Granted I got CK2 for free a couple months previously and didn’t touch it until I saw the DLC was on sale two weeks ago. Overall I’ve spent about $30 on my CK2+conclave+way of life+old gods experience. I had a similar situation with EU4 a year ago. Got the base game plus a truckload of DLC for like $110. Everything was like 75% off.
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Oct 5, 2018 01:23
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Gort posted:You want to know which DLC lets you buy development. Go to that page, CTRL-F, type development, first result in the list of DLCs is "Common Sense". Like a lot of people in this thread I think the problem lies in the EU4 DLC model, not the general Paradox DLC model. There's a reason I have CK2 and Stellaris almost up to date while I haven't bought EU4 DLC in the last two years or something and exclusively played M&T: CK2 and Stellaris gate game modes behind DLC, EU4 gates core features all nations use
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Oct 5, 2018 06:13
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One thing I really like about CK2 is that so many DLC are not strictly necessary. Don't want to play Muslims, republics, nomads or Indians? Don't buy Sword of Islam, The Republic, Horse Lords or Rajas of India. Same with pagans, but Old Gods is one of the top 3 DLC of CK2 (with Way of Life and Conclave). I still bought all of them, but you can just skip them while still having a great time with the game.
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Oct 5, 2018 06:28
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Koramei posted:EU + internal politics = the perfect game I bought EU4 thinking it would just be a continuation of CK2 and was really disappointed that the RPG/personal politics elements were gone. It's my fault for not doing more research but I still haven't been able to get into EU4 because the stories that you make as you play seem far less interesting than the stories you create in CK2
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Oct 5, 2018 08:18
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EU4 seems like a minmaxing multiplayer game to me nowadays. I play these games to have fun immersing myself in alternate history, not creating the perfect strategy of working around game mechanics. It is my least favorite paradox for that reason.
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Oct 5, 2018 10:28
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My only issue with the DLC model is I assume new patches are created and balanced around the game with all DLC enabled, so I always feel like the game might become unbalanced or have other problems if I'm missing a DLC. Maybe I'm wrong but seems unlikely that they can test each patch with every combination of DLC.
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Oct 5, 2018 10:29
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Party In My Diapee posted:EU4 seems like a minmaxing multiplayer game to me nowadays. I play these games to have fun immersing myself in alternate history, not creating the perfect strategy of working around game mechanics. It is my least favorite paradox for that reason. This morning I decided to start going through the Arumba tutorials from last year that someone mentioned upthread and it's interesting and might lead to me giving it a shot, but it still seems dry when compared to ck2. It wasn't until I tried playing eu4 that I realized what I really enjoyed about ck2; "winning" wasn't really as important to me as making an interesting story with interesting characters. Conquering and making money is still fun, but I only really liked it as a supplement to the stories that unfolded. Here is something I typed out a while ago about one of my ck2 rulers and even though it doesn't even tell half of the whole story of her reign (or everything that happened leading up to it, making it possible for there to even be a female caliph took generations) but it's engaging and interesting in a way that eu4 doesn't seem capable of being. quote:i was a genius female Caliph who was educated by her potentially threatening mother (who favored the younger brother) and, when she came of age, sent the mother to China (because she favored my younger brother, she was a threat to my rule, but it's worth noting that she was sent as a general, not a concubine) and then got syphilis after a tryst with a courtier by the river and lost a hand in battle and then embarked on military campaigns that expanded the empire's borders more than any single ruler before her (while fending off a crusade) before dying in battle at age 40, leaving her dipshit son with almost everyone in the world ready to unite against him if he so much as dared to invade a single county. so he's unable to expand the empire for most of his reign and is stuck building a bunch of poo poo with the heaps of money from a trade agreement that she secured via kowtowing to the chinese emperor and of course the grace she got from sending her potentially traitorous mother to the chinese emperor Does anyone have any similar eu4 stories that, while obviously not including personal life events, still makes for an engaging narrative? That would do more than anything to help light a fire under my rear end to learn the game
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Oct 5, 2018 10:36
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fuf posted:My only issue with the DLC model is I assume new patches are created and balanced around the game with all DLC enabled, so I always feel like the game might become unbalanced or have other problems if I'm missing a DLC. Maybe I'm wrong but seems unlikely that they can test each patch with every combination of DLC. Pretty sure they once said it's the other way around, they need to make sure it works without the DLC, that's why some features aren't really integrated well.
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Oct 5, 2018 10:48
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Party In My Diapee posted:EU4 seems like a minmaxing multiplayer game to me nowadays. I play these games to have fun immersing myself in alternate history, not creating the perfect strategy of working around game mechanics. It is my least favorite paradox for that reason. if you aren't already emotionally invested in the historical puzzle of navigating alliances and dependencies, then EU4 is always going to feel dry and game-y. it doesn't do a good job of making them feel like something other than artificial game constructs otherwise
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Oct 5, 2018 11:13
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VostokProgram posted:By the way, what was the alchemy thing in Vicky 2? Can artisans really just change resources out to anything else? When an Artisan decide the ROI is not high enough on his current production he switches. When he does that whatever he had in his inventory gets magically transformed into whatever he needs to produce the new thing. This has the effect of leaking money from the vicky 2 economy and is one of the causes why it does break from time to time, like when all artisans ROI gets messed up by sphering China and millions of pounds get lost. Why it leaks is because the ROI not being high enough means the price of the goods needed to produce have gone up, usually the artisan will then switch to something with a lot lower cost to buy in. And there, the super expensive fertilizer he just had became super cheap wool. I was going through a lot of code I was curious about when I did the Christmas patch. There's quite a few "creative solutions". The fanatics on reddit saying vicky2 is perfect and not broken is either lying to themselves or delusional. Another example is what happens to money put into a project, the person asking me did not accept my answer of it vanishing into thin air if there were over investment in the project. Me and the code was apparently lying. Groogy fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 11:26
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Money apparently vanishing into thin air during a project is pretty realistic though.
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Oct 5, 2018 11:46
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In real life though they don't vanish from the economic system, they just vanish from your wallet. Big difference.
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Oct 5, 2018 11:50
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I find the economic system of Victoria 2 both fascinating and incomprehensible in equal measure. I love hearing about the bodges in it.
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Oct 5, 2018 11:59
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Just had a thought: I bought the species packs for Stellaris mainly to get new ship models, which look really cool. But I did not buy a single troop pack for CK2, because I don't care what my soldiers look like. I got all portrait packs instead. Just goes to show how important the RPG aspect is to CK2.
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Oct 5, 2018 13:50
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I still wish Victoria 2 allowed for your domestic capitalists to invest in foreign countries. Save you the effort of manually spamming railroads worldwide, and it provides a somewhat organic narrative for when you just /have/ to invade and puppet a recent revolutionary government in the Americas to protect your investments.
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Oct 5, 2018 13:53
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Frustratingly, it seems like Paradox actually got rid of a really good CK2 bundle recently that contained most of the major DLC for a hefty discount. It was up for months and now it's gone (the love bundle or whatever). These kinds of decisions are baffling to me. It's like they actively want to make their games harder to get into. Just fyi, the love bundle was a Valentine's Day bundle, it was always supposed to be seasonal. That's why it's called the love bundle.
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Oct 5, 2018 14:01
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Groogy posted:Another example is what happens to money put into a project, the person asking me did not accept my answer of it vanishing into thin air if there were over investment in the project. Me and the code was apparently lying. Ahahahahaha, Jesus. Why didn’t they believe you? What did they think the answer should be?
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Oct 5, 2018 14:11
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cKnoor posted:Just fyi, the love bundle was a Valentine's Day bundle, it was always supposed to be seasonal. That's why it's called the love bundle. It was available for like six months though? I just don't understand the point of making franchise accessibility seasonal.
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Oct 5, 2018 14:30
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Party In My Diapee posted:EU4 seems like a minmaxing multiplayer game to me nowadays. I play these games to have fun immersing myself in alternate history, not creating the perfect strategy of working around game mechanics. It is my least favorite paradox for that reason. I mean all paradox titles are basically this, just CK2 hides it better with more generalized fights and the inheritance system meaning you'll lose stuff from time to time. Eu4 is blob central, ignoring any realistic cultural or even language barriers to conquest, HoI is spamming a few units in the tech tree while it also being impossible to use them all despite, ya know, the majors using them all, etc.
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Oct 5, 2018 15:00
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Yeah a lot of players min max their characters, and you have a lot more control of that. Plus the benefits are easier to notice as stats effect a lot of things in that game
CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 15:07
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:It was available for like six months though? I just don't understand the point of making franchise accessibility seasonal. 
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Oct 5, 2018 15:15
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Gamerofthegame posted:I mean That's why enlightened Paradox gamers graduate to playing groggier games like War in the East or Aurora, then Dwarf Fortress, and finally getting degrees in economics or sociology and building models to run on supercomputers.
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Oct 5, 2018 15:37
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baw posted:
I remember playing a really good game as Bohemia a while back where I took all of Brandenburg during a war early on (like pre 1480), and just barely held everyone back with Polish allies in the subsequent coalition war. A generation later I noticed that I still had the same military advisor from that time—now in his late 70s— and thinking “This guy’s been around since my ‘dad’ took Brandenburg.” So the advisors can kinda fill that role I guess. Playing as republics helps too, since the choice to keep the same guy as Doge/Syndic is always a tough one. And then the fun is seeing how many terms you can get out of a good one.
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Oct 5, 2018 16:06
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Party In My Diapee posted:EU4 seems like a minmaxing multiplayer game to me nowadays. I play these games to have fun immersing myself in alternate history, not creating the perfect strategy of working around game mechanics. It is my least favorite paradox for that reason. Yeah, EU4 was always pretty abstract as opposed to making much of a pretense at simulation and the number of abstract systems has bloated with the DLC count and to me it' made the historical setting feel like window-dressing divorced from the actual gameplay. A couple years into EU4, it just started getting downright alienating and I quit playing. It felt like there was no longer a pretense that I was guiding a nation through the early modern and instead it was all just balancing a bunch of nearly meaningless numbers against each other. Alot of people have given the Victoria series poo poo for having an absolute vomit of confusing numbers at it's core but current EU4 feels way worse about it. There's room for game-y min-maxing in the Victoria games but you can do a decent job playing them if you make decisions like a ruler of the era. There's only a couple systems and they all relate and interact with each and it feels like it should and invokes the era. In EU4, I'm confronted by a wealth of systems and all of them have their own numbers and many of them exist in their own bubble doing their own thing and all of them are so very abstract and uncorrelated with anything from history.
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Oct 5, 2018 16:12
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Gamerofthegame posted:I mean Illusion is an element of a game. Strip away all the graphics and context and turn a game into pure abstract number crunching and few would find it entertaining. Even ultra grognards who play glorified spreadsheets want their rows and columns to have meaningful names. When you're min-maxing your lineage to CK2 to get claims or get better heirs, your actions maintain the illusion. You're engaging in a set of actions that make sense, that have actual historical resemblances. In EU4 when I'm min-maxing whether to spend monarch points on development or technology or buying a core, what the hell am I doing? This decision is complete untethered abstraction SickZip fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 16:28
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ck2 is good because it lets you pretend you have a wife and children and a worthwhile life, eu4 is bad because it's a video game
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Oct 5, 2018 16:35
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Hmm true, in CK2 I usually have a wife, eight children, and several vassals, none of which I have in real life
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Oct 5, 2018 16:39
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Groogy posted:When an Artisan decide the ROI is not high enough on his current production he switches. When he does that whatever he had in his inventory gets magically transformed into whatever he needs to produce the new thing. This has the effect of leaking money from the vicky 2 economy and is one of the causes why it does break from time to time, like when all artisans ROI gets messed up by sphering China and millions of pounds get lost. So I’m curious now, if Paradox ever does start making a Victoria 3, would you want to be involved with making the economy work in a more sane way or has working with Victoria 2 just scared you away from that idea entirely?
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Oct 5, 2018 16:42
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When will ck2 support gay marriage.
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Oct 5, 2018 16:54
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VostokProgram posted:When will ck2 support gay marriage. When you achieve Tolerance level 400 Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I remember playing a really good game as Bohemia a while back where I took all of Brandenburg during a war early on (like pre 1480), and just barely held everyone back with Polish allies in the subsequent coalition war. That's cool but i wanna know how the advisor looks and if his wife is cucking him
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Oct 5, 2018 17:03
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