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J.B. CURES KANSAS posted:What's the matter? Nick Mullen got you pushing too many pencils? we did well i just wanted to commemorate it 
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Oct 6, 2018 08:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdasbLKm4s0
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Oct 6, 2018 08:09
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Ruzihm posted:we did well i just wanted to commemorate it better watch the source material again, friendo
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Oct 6, 2018 08:11
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J.B. CURES KANSAS posted:oof, how embarrassing ok ok ok
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Oct 6, 2018 08:16
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it has been an honor.
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Oct 6, 2018 08:24
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Oct 6, 2018 08:25
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So where is the strongman equivalent for us? Who is gonna tap into the affront and outrage. And offer us pure untapped paradigms as the call to arms. Wrapping yourself in platitudes and identity zero sum games is what Erdogan supporters does... In the land of confusion we don't need anymore encouragement to partake in the nonsensical and substance less hooliganism. Which I has more todo with ego then any principles.
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Oct 6, 2018 15:28
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lol fulchrum you idiot just post in the suck zone instead of spending $7 on a banner ad
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Oct 6, 2018 15:39
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Raskolnikov38 posted:lol fulchrum you idiot just post in the suck zone instead of spending $7 on a banner ad Thought there was a rule he gets six hour bans from posting there?
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Oct 6, 2018 15:39
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Crowsbeak posted:Thought there was a rule he gets six hour bans from posting there? shhh i'm trying to trick him into getting chain probed
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Oct 6, 2018 15:41
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rewatching inside job and it's upsetting how badly the obama admin hosed up the recovery.
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Oct 6, 2018 17:34
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54.4 crowns posted:So where is the strongman equivalent for us? Who is gonna tap into the affront and outrage. It’s probably going to be Avanetti.
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Oct 6, 2018 22:08
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Every defense of Manchin comes down to “he was never the deciding vote” on whatever bad policy he votes on. But with this one, if Murkowski had kept her No vote, it would’ve been 50-49 making Manchin the deciding vote. Of course, they would’ve brought in Daines so that Manchin wouldn’t have to change his vote. Reading up on the pairing vote thing, it is by design that they try not to have deciding votes.
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Oct 6, 2018 22:16
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Forcing Mike Pence to roll his gay hating rear end into the senate and making it very visible who is responsible for this hosed up bullshit would have been easily worth noted rape supporter Joe Manchin losing his seat.
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Oct 6, 2018 23:02
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I guess I'm beginning to wholeheartedly sympathize with the French Revolution's guillotine parties.
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Oct 7, 2018 00:59
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duodenum posted:I guess I'm beginning to wholeheartedly sympathize with the French Revolution's guillotine parties.
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Oct 7, 2018 01:39
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duodenum posted:I guess I'm beginning to wholeheartedly sympathize with the French Revolution's guillotine parties. I'm already sympathizing with Mao creating struggle sessions and Laogai. There are just people who the only way they'll be made to change is if you crush their spirits utterly. Hey, he got the former Emperor to praise the revolution as giving him purpose.
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Oct 7, 2018 01:39
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Crowsbeak posted:I'm already sympathizing with Mao creating struggle sessions and Laogai. There are just people who the only way they'll be made to change is if you crush their spirits utterly. Hey, he got the former Emperor to praise the revolution as giving him purpose. I'm not sure how much is propaganda from one place or another but from all I hear the Emperor's life was a farce anyway with China basically being ungovernable because nobody would truthfully tell the Emperor what was going on?
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Oct 7, 2018 02:23
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The Kingfish posted:It’s probably going to be Avanetti. Nope
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Oct 7, 2018 02:28
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I'm not sure how much is propaganda from one place or another but from all I hear the Emperor's life was a farce anyway with China basically being ungovernable because nobody would truthfully tell the Emperor what was going on?
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Oct 7, 2018 03:26
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I'm not sure how much is propaganda from one place or another but from all I hear the Emperor's life was a farce anyway with China basically being ungovernable because nobody would truthfully tell the Emperor what was going on? Puyi was a toddler when the events of 1912 took place, he was 15 when Feng Yuxiang made it clear China was no longer to be a Monarchy by expelling him and the entire Imperial court from Beijing.
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Oct 7, 2018 03:41
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Rent-A-Cop posted:It doesn't matter how many people are telling you the truth if a dozen different warlords can outshoot your government. I mostly recall hearing it from around the British invasion (before the warlords, I think) that governors kept telling the Emperor the British had been defeated massively and there was nothing to worry about, repeatedly reporting the sinking of the same ship. (that hadn't sunk)
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Oct 7, 2018 03:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I mostly recall hearing it from around the British invasion (before the warlords, I think) that governors kept telling the Emperor the British had been defeated massively and there was nothing to worry about, repeatedly reporting the sinking of the same ship. (that hadn't sunk) That was Yizhu.
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Oct 7, 2018 03:50
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Crowsbeak posted:That was Yizhu. Right, mixing up my Emperors. It sounds like a hilarious (in a black comedy way) period of history. Apparently the British kept rocking up to the local seat of government to find they'd all committed suicide.
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Oct 7, 2018 05:27
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I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I know a bunch of people who can go on for an hour about how Zinn is eye rollingly simplistic while also believing that our problems would be solved if more people would just vote correctly (D). Has there been an actual problem societal problem solved by politicians, rather than them having to be forced, kicking and screaming?
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Oct 7, 2018 18:59
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I'm genuinely glad Cory Booker stands no chance going around talking about loving Republicans right now lol
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Oct 7, 2018 19:22
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Nonsense posted:I'm genuinely glad Cory Booker stands no chance going around talking about loving Republicans right now lol For those wondering. https://twitter.com/IAStartingLine/status/1048762761499561984?s=19 Very good.
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Oct 7, 2018 19:29
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I think one of my least favorite commonly-heard things in these forums political discussions is the characterization of acknowledging the insufficiency of just supporting the Democratic Party as believing "nothing matters." While I don't think this is explicitly the intent, it almost seems like a cynical rhetorical strategy specifically crafted for shutting down any attempts to deviate from the status quo (of just supporting mainstream political candidates through mainstream channels). The biggest thing that gets to me is the sheer dishonesty of it; it's almost always used against someone who isn't even remotely arguing that people should just give up and do nothing. Like, someone will just point out "just making gains in the midterms isn't going to fix things" and people will accuse them of "nothing matters"-ing. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Oct 7, 2018 |
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Oct 7, 2018 19:30
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Acinonyx posted:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I know a bunch of people who can go on for an hour about how Zinn is eye rollingly simplistic while also believing that our problems would be solved if more people would just vote correctly (D). Has there been an actual problem societal problem solved by politicians, rather than them having to be forced, kicking and screaming? Like, ever? Any problem at all historically? Because if so, what do you think the New Deal was? How do you define "forced"? How do you feel about the FDA?
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Oct 7, 2018 19:31
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https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1048730839427764224 Reminder he voted Bush in 2000.
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Oct 7, 2018 19:52
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GORE WON THE ELECTION. these fuckers blaming the voters are driving me mad.
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Oct 7, 2018 20:03
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It seems absurd to hold accountable large swaths of voters over a 16 year gap. So much has changed between then and now. Also, it was the supreme court that helped Bush win. They knew exactly what would happen. They get the blame for doing this to themselves.
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Oct 7, 2018 20:17
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1048730839427764224 The Democratic line since 2000 has been the Nader voters are more responsible for Bush than the Bush voters. They want those Bush voters more than anything but they'll never get them. It's extra funny coming from this dumbfuck blaming people for not protecting us from himself. Mr Hootington posted:For those wondering. The Senate Democrats know the Republicans are laying it all out too clean that they are the American Aristocracy and people are pissed since the system we are supposed to have some degree of faith in is clearly not designed to work in our favor. Booker and Coons trying their best to try and make sure people don't get too mad at their friends in the Senate for being real fuckers. Remember these Republicans are literally calling the protesters animals but once again WE are supposed to be good and not held to the same low standard as they or Kavanaugh are held to. Of course that's not going to work and just make them look like collaborators and dunk their popularity. The line from every stupid hack like Chuck Todd or Mornin' Joe is "hey hey, don't get too mad just vote and be civil" while the Senate Republicans are still calling people slurs. It couldn't be more clear who is supposed to be civil and who can act like a monster and still deserve respect. Freakazoid_ posted:It seems absurd to hold accountable large swaths of voters over a 16 year gap. So much has changed between then and now. Democrats are losers and always end up loving up everything expecting the rules to be followed so the idea we need Pelosi, Schumer, etc to protect us with their Institutional Knowledge is a huge joke. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Oct 7, 2018 |
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Oct 7, 2018 20:26
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Like, ever? Any problem at all historically? Because if so, what do you think the New Deal was? How do you define "forced"? The New Deal is a great example. I think Joseph Kennedy Sr. got the context right with "in those days I felt and said I would be willing to part with half of what I had if I could be sure of keeping, under law and order, the other half". Or we could take Roosevelt at his word: "Throughout the nation men and women, forgotten in the political philosophy of the Government, look to us here for guidance and for more equitable opportunity to share in the distribution of national wealth... I pledge myself to a new deal for the American people. This is more than a political campaign. It is a call to arms." The elite didn't provide the New Deal wealth redistribution and jobs programs out of the goodness of their hearts, it was to stem off severe unrest. The unrest and demands for justice are what actually enacted change. Roosevelt got out in front, and was swept into office for his plan for how to fix the economy. Th FDA came about after public outcry and journalism by Upton Sinclair and others. I'm not sure there is any reading of that that attributes it to benevolent politicians. I don't think asking the current Dem leadership politely is going to get us anywhere and I think standard history books are written in a way to ignore or minimize the popular movements that drove pretty much every worthwhile change to our society. My point wasn't supposed to be that the gov can't work, but rather that voting out Collins/Manchin/Trump are necessary but not sufficient.
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Oct 7, 2018 20:41
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Acinonyx posted:
I think this is a remarkably forced and one-sided reading of the actual history there. I'd suggest you read up on Theodore Roosevelt's partnership with Upton Sinclair , etc. (Okay, "partnership" may be too strong a word, but Sinclair and Roosevelt corresponded with each other extensively). On the one hand, yes, the Roosevelts (both of them) were "progressive" in part because they saw it as a way to save capitalism from itself, and in part as a way to satisfy their own political ambitions. On the other hand, they also both got righteously angry as gently caress over systemic abuses and were crusaders in their own right. And on the third hand both Roosevelts had a personal moral notion of noblesse oblige that's basically entirely missing from modern American elites. If by "benevolent" you mean "pure unalloyed charity without a trace of self interest" then you're just strawmanning the notion of benevolence; all political actors are self-interested. There are plenty of historical examples where "self interested" politicians made real political gains for broader populace. It's only our weird rear end fascist-media-twisted oligarchy that makes it possible for politicians to succeed without on some level aiding and helping the voting public. Acinonyx posted:My point wasn't supposed to be that the gov can't work, but rather that voting out Collins/Manchin/Trump are necessary but not sufficient. Oh, sure. The way you were writing that post though you seemed to be going off the deep end into anarcho-libertarianism -- all politicians bad so lets just . .. hide in the woods I guess? idk Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Oct 7, 2018 |
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Oct 7, 2018 21:10
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Acinonyx posted:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I know a bunch of people who can go on for an hour about how Zinn is eye rollingly simplistic while also believing that our problems would be solved if more people would just vote correctly (D). Has there been an actual problem societal problem solved by politicians, rather than them having to be forced, kicking and screaming? JQA built federal roads that one time and had the bouge baying for his blood as a result, so yeah. I assume reformist monarchs murdering the grabby, rapacious nobles beneath them and doing land reforms of some kind don't count. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Oct 7, 2018 |
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Oct 7, 2018 22:22
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Like, ever? Any problem at all historically? Because if so, what do you think the New Deal was? How do you define "forced"? the New Deal was an attempt to avoid the country collapsing into either fascism or communism FDR himself was an austerity crusader who campaigned on balanced budgets and deficit reduction. he just realized that he also had to get people back to work to get them out of the streets. at the same time he was instituting bank reform and work programs, he also slashed government employee pay (including Supreme Court pensions) and kicked people off veteran pension programa
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Oct 7, 2018 22:38
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Main Paineframe posted:the New Deal was an attempt to avoid the country collapsing into either fascism or communism I think I've already addressed this, but : Ok, and your point is? He still wasn't "forced, kicking and screaming[,]" he was responding to political pressure (in a savvy way that got him elected to four straight terms). That's why I asked what the poster meant by "forced." Nobody held a gun to FDR's temple. If we're going by conventional definitions of "forced" -- i.e., did anyone storm a Bastille? -- then there are plenty of historical counterexamples to the question. If we're going by a metaphorical definition of "forced" -- i.e., was there political pressure -- then it's not exactly surprising that politicians responded to political pressure. You can find a few other historical examples of politicians who led the wave rather than followed it, though. Huey Long might be a good case study for that. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Oct 7, 2018 |
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Oct 7, 2018 22:48
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Using FDR as your example is basically saying nothing will get better until half the country is out of work and on the brink of revolution
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Oct 7, 2018 22:54
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VitalSigns posted:Using FDR as your example is basically saying nothing will get better until half the country is out of work and on the brink of revolution  I'm not here to make people feel better
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Oct 7, 2018 22:54
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