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V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

lol have they just invented the untermenschen approach to dehumanisation and used computer game terminology for it

jesus

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CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem

V. Illych L. posted:

lol have they just invented the untermenschen approach to dehumanisation and used computer game terminology for it

jesus

yeah Bethesda is terrible for any number of reasons

Clarence
May 3, 2012

13th KRRC War Diary, 8th October 1918 posted:

Up to ZERO the night was quiet; nothing abnormal was to be seen or heard; only the usual spasmodic shelling, intermittent M.G. fire and frequent Very Lights. As our own artillery were shelling the BEAUREVOIR LINE and wire no patrols were carried out.

By 3-30 a.m. A & B Companies had taken up their prearranged stations and had reported in position.
At 4-30 a.m. our guns opened.
By 5-10 a.m. the barrage had passed obliquely across our front and the forward movement of D Coy had begum. After advancing to the trench line it became evident that the barrage excellent though it had been had by no means broken the resistance for D. Company came under heavy fire from emplacements cunningly constructed and well concealed situated in the support trench of the BEAUREVOIR LINE. The wire had been very little damaged by our shell fire and there were few gaps. These circumstances combined to create a very critical situation for had any check occurred the success of the operations on our front and on the flanks would have been imperilled. D Company, however rose to the occasion and acted without delay, defiling quickly through the gaps in the wire and deploying immediately on the other side. The enemy machine gunners however offered a stubborn resistance and kept their guns going until skilfully outflanked and entirely surrounded. Having thoroughly cleared the trench lines and machine gun nests D Company pushed on and gained their objective shortly after 7-22 a.m. - their scheduled time. Almost immediately the 15th R.Fus of the 112th Brigade began to pass through in the attack on the Division's second objective; the line of HURTEBISE FARM and the west edge of BRISEUX WOOD. By 8 p.m. all companies of the Battalion were in position as arranged and by 8-30 p.m. B Company had extended their front to the left and were in touch with the right of D Company. It was at this stage only that one could fully appreciate the difficulties of the task set and so successfully carried out. The wire was deep thick and practically untouched by the barrage; the enemy machine guns and their crews were well protected by concrete emplacements while the strength of the garrison was considerably greater than had been estimated.

Out of one M.G. nest alone 48 prisoners were taken, while the total taken by the Battalion in those operations at a moderate estimate was 300. Among others were men of the 143rd Inf.Regt. & 12th Jaeger Regt. During the remainder of the day no movement took place on the part of the Battalion. The 112th Inf.Bde. gained their objective established themselves on the line HURTEBISE FARM - N.W. Corner of BRISEUX WOOD - Sunken Road N to 500 yards S of KE GRAND PONT

At 6 p.m. the 63rd Inf. Bde. attacked from the that line and captured the high ground N.E. of BRISEUX WOOD. At 8-13 p.m. a warning order was received to the effect that the advance was to be continued on the following morning. The objectives of the 37th Division were -
1st - from HAUCOURT (inclusive) 1500 yards S
2nd - from LIGNY (inclusive) 1500 yards N
Exploitation Objective - CAUDRY.

The 111th Infantry Brigade were ordered to assemble N.W. of BRISEUX WOOD at 9 a.m. on the 9th October ready to move off - transport to accompany units. Approximate orders were issued to Companies and transport at 10 p.m.

13th KRRC War Diary, 9th October 1918 posted:

At 0715 hours the Transport joined the Battalion in the valley West of HURTEBISE FARM. Lewis guns were loaded on limbers and at 0820 hours the Battalion marched off and reached its allotted position near Chateau BRISEAUX at 0855 hours. Here information was received that the Division's first objective had been taken and at a conference at Brigade Headquarters verbal orders were issued to continue the advance at 1100 hours the 13th Battn K.R.R.C. leading.

At 1150 hours the Battalion was halted and verbal orders were received to line a sunken road running E and W about 2 miles south of LIGNY, as it was reported that the enemy were still in LIGNY. The Battalion remained in this position until 1630 hours during which time several mines were seen to explode in LIGNY.

At 1630 hours the Battalion was ordered to advance to a sunken road about a 1000 yards S of LIGNY and bivouac there for the night. The Battalion was under orders to be ready to move at 1 hours notice.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

There's the bit of me that's always disappointed that these don't come with detailed casualty reports.

quote:

D Company, however rose to the occasion and acted without delay, defiling quickly through the gaps in the wire and deploying immediately on the other side. The enemy machine gunners however offered a stubborn resistance and kept their guns going until skilfully outflanked and entirely surrounded

Attacking through nearly intact wire and into hardened MG nests is no joke, and I wonder how many lads made it :(

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

V. Illych L. posted:

lol have they just invented the untermenschen approach to dehumanisation and used computer game terminology for it

jesus
their whole schtick is "the ______ but with computer game terminology for it"

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

HEY GUNS posted:

their whole schtick is "the ______ but with computer game terminology for it"

They're extremely uncool, all of them.

Rockopolis
Dec 21, 2012

I MAKE FUN OF QUEER STORYGAMES BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH MY LIFE THAN MAKE OTHER PEOPLE CRY

I can't understand these kinds of games, and not getting it bugs me almost as much as me being weird
It's like Great Man Theory applied to daily life instead of history?

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.
P-zombies for moronic racists, that’s just great.

It’s straight up “anyone who doesn’t agree with you isn’t a person” which is way worse than the sheeple thing. That at least presents as something people can “wake up” from. This NPC thing precludes even that.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice

Comrade Gorbash posted:

P-zombies for moronic racists, that’s just great.

It’s straight up “anyone who doesn’t agree with you isn’t a person” which is way worse than the sheeple thing. That at least presents as something people can “wake up” from. This NPC thing precludes even that.

I know. You cant even debate with those people, no matter how many times you say. "They say the sword of wind is in Karoly Forest...but that's just a legend, right?"

MrMojok
Jan 28, 2011

“Rhodesia was perfect country”

Rockopolis
Dec 21, 2012

I MAKE FUN OF QUEER STORYGAMES BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH MY LIFE THAN MAKE OTHER PEOPLE CRY

I can't understand these kinds of games, and not getting it bugs me almost as much as me being weird
Wait, poo poo, no, it's the modern version of those peasants from A World Lit Only By Fire.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
A modern day person valued avocado over shelter and other goods and services. Their crazed need to get avocado even left them too destitute to afford any other sides than simple toast.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Rockopolis posted:

Wait, poo poo, no, it's the modern version of those peasants from A World Lit Only By Fire.

Okay, so...

I've never read the book. I have a deep and abiding hatred of William Manchester ever since I read Goodbye Darkness, an utterly awful book. It was bad, bad, bad.

No, really. It's supposed to be a memoir about his time in the USMC in WWII. The problem is that it quickly becomes abundantly clear that he simply can't distinguish between his "kid, let me tell you 'bout how I killed a [slur for Japanese]" fantasies and reality. For example, he writes about numerous battles in terms of "we." "We landed on Guadalcanal," etc. If I was being generous I'd say he was referring to the whole USMC as "we," but no, he's talks at length in terms of "we" about battles that went down when he wasn't even in boot camp. "We" hell, you're just telling sea stories. Then follow this up with page after page of bloviating bullshit about what a tremendous burden it is to have such a large penis... It's one of the few books that I've actually thrown away rather than donate or give away. Yes, it was that bad.

So, for pure schadenfreude, what's the deal with World Lit Only By Fire?

If this is a topic that has already played out, ignore this post, please.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
You know a book is bad when we throw it away.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

SeanBeansShako posted:

You know a book is bad when we throw it away.

Yeah. I'm a book hoarder, and this didn't even make the "keep it in a bin out in the garage" or "give it away/donate it somewhere" cut.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
Only book I've ever tossed was a really smug obviously pumped out during the Brexit hype smug POS explaining why beating the Napoleonic French clearly made my country some sort of 19th century supermen and everything is wrong because.

What a piece of poo poo. Even being sold for nothing was too good. Waste of paper.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice

Cessna posted:

So, for pure schadenfreude, what's the deal with World Lit Only By Fire?

The individual problems with the book are probably too many to count, but briefly, there was old narrative of the Middle Ages which depicts it as philosophically a d technologically stagnant. Rome existed, which was a beacon of civilization, so goes the narrative, and then the barbarians came and destroyed it, and Europe slipped into fanaticism, cruelty and ignorance, where the Catholic Church brutally suppressed imagination and education, the kings and knights brutally oppressed the peasants, who lived in squalor, and stuff was just rotten. Then the Rennaisance came, everyone rediscovered art and learning, Protestants showed up, and people realized they didnt have to listen to the church, and everything was great (disclaimer....may not apply to Spain which, probably because of the Jesuits and the Inquisition, stayed in the middle ages until I dont know...20th century?)

So anyway, that's the old story. It is largely, now, discredited by the majority of historians. Over the past 50-60 years, historians have looked at the way technology did change over the course of the medieval period, at the way medieval philosophers interacted with each other and the way philosophical ideas played out. It looked at Western European contacts with the Greek and Islamic world, and the way culture, technology, and goods traveled. It looked at the relationship between peasants and the nobility, and realized it was more based on contracts and consent than was realized. And historians reevaluated ancient Rome and the Rennaisance, and realized they weren't the heights of tolerance older historians thought.

Manchester's book maybe wouldn't have been so bad if it were written in 1900. But it was written in 1993. Manchester used pretty much no modern sources. He included anecdotes without either verifying their authenticity or trying to understand them in any context beyond, "Hey, look how dumb people used to be", and in general, just wrote a pretty useless book.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

JcDent posted:

Attacking through nearly intact wire and into hardened MG nests is no joke, and I wonder how many lads made it :(

They're not being pulled out and there were enough of them made it through to continue fighting afterwards, so I think there's room to be optimistic on that score.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Cessna posted:

Okay, so...

I've never read the book. I have a deep and abiding hatred of William Manchester ever since I read Goodbye Darkness, an utterly awful book. It was bad, bad, bad.

No, really. It's supposed to be a memoir about his time in the USMC in WWII. The problem is that it quickly becomes abundantly clear that he simply can't distinguish between his "kid, let me tell you 'bout how I killed a [slur for Japanese]" fantasies and reality. For example, he writes about numerous battles in terms of "we." "We landed on Guadalcanal," etc. If I was being generous I'd say he was referring to the whole USMC as "we," but no, he's talks at length in terms of "we" about battles that went down when he wasn't even in boot camp. "We" hell, you're just telling sea stories. Then follow this up with page after page of bloviating bullshit about what a tremendous burden it is to have such a large penis... It's one of the few books that I've actually thrown away rather than donate or give away. Yes, it was that bad.

So, for pure schadenfreude, what's the deal with World Lit Only By Fire?

If this is a topic that has already played out, ignore this post, please.

Among other things, it claims that:

1. Peasants had no sense of time, as the churches were the only ones who held calendars or clocks and no other method of timekeeping existed. Peasants would only have a vague sense of seasons and aging to know how long ago anything had been.

2. Peasants never left their home village and would become hopelessly lost if they traveled more than a mile or two away.

3. Sometimes harvests would be so poor that peasants would engage in cannibalism and/or have to sell 100% of their possessions and live naked in an empty hut shivering on a dirt floor until they could afford a sack.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

SeanBeansShako posted:

Only book I've ever tossed was a really smug obviously pumped out during the Brexit hype smug POS explaining why beating the Napoleonic French clearly made my country some sort of 19th century supermen and everything is wrong because.

What a piece of poo poo. Even being sold for nothing was too good. Waste of paper.

Rolling papers?

Geisladisk
Sep 15, 2007

Comrade Gorbash posted:

P-zombies for moronic racists, that�s just great.

It�s straight up �anyone who doesn�t agree with you isn�t a person� which is way worse than the sheeple thing. That at least presents as something people can �wake up� from. This NPC thing precludes even that.

My generation's Nazis are a bunch of pasty 4chan dweebs and our Nazi propaganda is just lovely internet memes. Fantastic.

Not only do millenials inherit a awful job market, impossible real estate market, and almost no economic prospects, but we also get lame Nazis. :sigh:

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

Milo and POTUS posted:

Rolling papers?

Not sure if they'd be safe to smoke, these terribad books are pumped out to chain book shops and written by Tory/Conservative talking heads of the UK's media. I imagine the cheap ink would give you cancer to all kinds of exposure.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice

chitoryu12 posted:


1. Peasants had no sense of time, as the churches were the only ones who held calendars or clocks and no other method of timekeeping existed. Peasants would only have a vague sense of seasons and aging to know how long ago anything had been.

It is kind of fitting that a book called "A World Lit Only By Fire" forgets that the sun exists.

There's actually a pretty interesting collection of proofs of age in medieval England here:

http://edwardthesecond.blogspot.com/2018/03/proofs-of-age-i-know-how-old-you-are.html?m=1

The idea behind proofs of age is, let's say you're an orphan who has inherited land. The Crown holds the land for you until you come of age, which is 14 for women, 21 for men. One of the ways you can prove you've reached that age is to find people willing to say you're that age. Here are some sxamples.

quote:

William Dawson, one of the jurors, remembered the date because he "was in Pontefract on the day that Edward was born, and there saw a man unknown to him, who had been arrested for casting the evil eye on the horse of his neighbour, John de Hirn, and he then heard that Anne Hastings had been delivered of a male child, whom he afterwards heard called Edward."

quote:

Juror Ralph Oudeby remembered the date because he saw "William, late Lord Ros, John’s godfather with a huge stomach, raise him from the font at baptism."

Thomas Stokes of Folkingham, 60 and more, was sent at the command of Elizabeth [Willoughby] mother of John, late Lady Beaumont, to tell Henry Beaumont, chevalier [knight], father of John, the good news of John’s birth on the day of the birth.

William Ledbeter of Sleaford, 60 and more, sold a white palfrey on the day of the birth at Folkingham for £10 to Henry Beaumont, chevalier, father of John.

quote:

Richard Pinneys says that he was at Winchester with Miles's father and led three greyhounds, and the greyhounds strangled three swans of the abbess of Romsey, whereupon the abbess purchased the king's writ of trespass and recovered 100 shillings therefor at the time of Miles's birth

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye





















Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

World Lit sounds dire. I'm glad I avoided it; there are so many books and so little time as it is.

Chillyrabbit
Oct 24, 2012

The only sword wielding rabbit on the internet



Ultra Carp

I don't read all of them but drat that's nice showing the little personal details even if it is all anecdotal memoirs of the Canadian soldier in WW2.

Thanks for posting them.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

Does that idea of the dark ages play into modern nationalism? A blank period so people can form their own narratives of crawling out from the void fully formed without having to parse through all the steps that made them what they are now?

And then if they really want to make some kind of prestigious history for themselves, they can fill that blank period with any garbage they want.

lenoon
Jan 7, 2010

It sure as poo poo played into 19th century nationalism, every bloody empire claims its the resurrection of Rome after the nasty bits of the past - we are the true bringers of culture due to our historic links to rome/charlemagne/HRE/Greece/Rum/whatever bit of history you choose to not have been “dark”

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

SeanBeansShako posted:

Only book I've ever tossed was a really smug obviously pumped out during the Brexit hype smug POS explaining why beating the Napoleonic French clearly made my country some sort of 19th century supermen

I didn't realise I lived in Russia :ohdear:

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

JcDent posted:

There's the bit of me that's always disappointed that these don't come with detailed casualty reports.


Attacking through nearly intact wire and into hardened MG nests is no joke, and I wonder how many lads made it :(

There's a bit in Vimy (I have no idea if this is a good book) where a guy is advancing and figures out there's a machine gun ahead because he sees a 150ish yard cone of bodies. It sounds absolutely dreadful.

Geisladisk
Sep 15, 2007

lenoon posted:

It sure as poo poo played into 19th century nationalism, every bloody empire claims its the resurrection of Rome after the nasty bits of the past - we are the true bringers of culture due to our historic links to rome/charlemagne/HRE/Greece/Rum/whatever bit of history you choose to not have been �dark�

Which is ridiculous, since obviously Finland is the true heir to the Roman Empire.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
https://i.imgur.com/Z80njup.gifv

B-29 Tail Gunner POV

Clarence
May 3, 2012

Trin Tragula posted:

They're not being pulled out and there were enough of them made it through to continue fighting afterwards, so I think there's room to be optimistic on that score.

Casualties for that attack would be ~70 (working from the month's end numbers and (spoilers) another attack later this month where there are some numbers mentioned). Hopefully I'll get the chance to show a bit more detail of what happens to a casualty as well.

Total numbers for the Battalion are holding up well; 900 at the start of the month. They're managing to get plenty of replacements. Other battalions being down to 600-700 at this point is not unusual.

Geisladisk
Sep 15, 2007


That rules.

The B-29's gun turret system is loving crazy. Not only are a whole bunch of turrets linked to one gun station and controlled by a single gunner, the analog gunnery computer automatically compensated for things like distance, relative velocity between bomber and target, and even air density. I can't fathom how any fighter pilot would willingly fly into that.

As if that wasn't enough, it could outrun most contemporary fighters at high altitudes - Making it practically impossible to intercept.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Geisladisk posted:

That rules.

The B-29's gun turret system is loving crazy. Not only are a whole bunch of turrets linked to one gun station and controlled by a single gunner, the analog gunnery computer automatically compensated for things like distance, relative velocity between bomber and target, and even air density. I can't fathom how any fighter pilot would willingly fly into that.

As if that wasn't enough, it could outrun most contemporary fighters at high altitudes - Making it practically impossible to intercept.

The B-29 was I think the second most expensive WW2 project that the US armed forces engaged in. We even had the B-32 on deck in case the B-29 failed(and it really didn't look good for the 29 for quite a while).

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Panzeh posted:

The B-29 was I think the second most expensive WW2 project that the US armed forces engaged in.

Most. It was considerably more expensive than the Manhattan Project.

I think the most expensive WW2 project for anyone, by far, was the Atlantic Wall.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Phanatic posted:

Most. It was considerably more expensive than the Manhattan Project.

I think the most expensive WW2 project for anyone, by far, was the Atlantic Wall.

False! They weren't billable hours and the workers knew it.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Ensign Expendable posted:

The British tested poison gas anti-tank weapons extensively, they turned out to be quite effective, but never deployed.

Go on...

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?


Tanks aren't airtight so if you drop a bunch of gas in their general area the crews all choke to death, I'd assume

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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Crazycryodude posted:

Tanks aren't airtight so if you drop a bunch of gas in their general area the crews all choke to death, I'd assume

And trying to put on a gas mask in the cramped confines of a tank is a nightmare.

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