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Azathoth posted:The problem is not picking the right battles. AOC is a great example, heavy blue district had no business having a poo poo centrist in there, Feinstein and Menendez should go, they're both way right of their constituents. But they have giant war chests because they're good at the only thing our political system actually cares about, fundraising  DOLLA DOLLA BILL Y'ALL so they'll never lose a primary.Welcome to hellworld.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:41
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Azathoth posted:Out here every GOP candidate is gonna attack every Dem as tied to Pelosi, even if they've never met and the candidate gets no money from Pelosi or her SuperPAC, and no matter what the candidate does it's all about how they're an ULTRALIBERAL like Pelosi (lol) even if they're the most centrist of centrist. No one's turning down her money, because the GOP attacks them whether or not they get any. no the point is taking pac money would be poison
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Oct 10, 2018 23:42
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Magres posted:Yup. I think Vote Blue No Matter Who is actually correct because clawing and screaming for ANYTHING we can get to staunch the bleeding is both the morally and tactically correct thing to do imo, but absolutely get the knives out in primaries and go stab some neolib careers in the gut. If people would actually vote Blue no matter what you can bet your rear end that it'd take about ten minutes for the party establishment to abolish all primaries and just start handpicking candidates again. Azathoth posted:Yep, and that isn't something that happens in one election cycle, gotta build up infrastructure to keep coming back. The problem with this idea is that the US might not have the decade or so it would take to somehow take over the dems from the inside left in it before an actually competent fascist shows up.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:42
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this might be a galaxy brain take but the easiest way to primary these awful incumbents is for them to lose the general election
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Oct 10, 2018 23:43
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I’m talking about physically showing up in the flesh to their 1000 dollar plate dinners and loving up the whole venue. I’m talking about actually throwing chairs at conventions. these reptiles aren’t going to be afraid of a primary challenge 6 years down the line.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:44
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menendez wins new jersey because neoliberalism is still a huge selling point in one of the richest states in the nation, especially one that relies on healthcare, pharma, and banks for jobs.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:44
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Raskolnikov38 posted:this might be a galaxy brain take but the easiest way to primary these awful incumbents is for them to lose the general election
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Oct 10, 2018 23:45
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WampaLord posted:But they have giant war chests because they're good at the only thing our political system actually cares about, fundraising You're ascribing a lot of competence to folks whose actual competence varies wildly. Not saying every shitlib is vulnerable, but it doesn't take a lot of actual victories to put the fear in a bunch of empty shirts and, at a minimum, push them left.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:45
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 "I'd like to grow up to be a politician, so I can support the people who vote for me!" "Wow, that's great, Sally! Now show me your Rolodex of donors! You don't have one? Oh, Sally, I don't think politics is for you, you can't be a serious candidate for office without fundraising ability!"*years pass* "Wow, how did the world go to poo poo?" *Collects 6 figure salary for NY times op-eds and lives a life of luxury*
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Oct 10, 2018 23:45
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anime was right posted:no the point is taking pac money would be poison Don't gotta take PAC money to have a PAC run an attack campaign against your opponent. But yeah, taking actual PAC money officially would be poison.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:47
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Raskolnikov38 posted:this might be a galaxy brain take but the easiest way to primary these awful incumbents is for them to lose the general election Lol That's a good point I take it back, gently caress vote blue no matter who. I didn't really have Manchin and his ilk in mind when I said that and it was a dumb thing to say. I'd rather have most of the sitting Dems than any motherfucker from the GOP, but there are definitely limits. I had like, Ron Wyden in mind. I'd rather someone better but he's generally kinda okay. His last two opponents were, hrm, his 2016 opponent thinks climate change is a myth and supports a flat tax, his 2012 opponent loves guns, tort reform, privatizing social security, logging, and the war on terror. I'll take a leftist over Wyden and Wyden over those chucklefucks. Magres fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Oct 10, 2018 |
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Oct 10, 2018 23:48
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I’m talking about physically showing up in the flesh to their 1000 dollar plate dinners and loving up the whole venue. I’m talking about actually throwing chairs at conventions. these reptiles aren’t going to be afraid of a primary challenge 6 years down the line. the ECW method of public protest 
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Oct 10, 2018 23:48
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If the dems take the senate Manchin is going to flip to give GOP control again and it will be glorious Remember when the Dems won the governorship in West Virginia? Man, how did that go again
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Oct 10, 2018 23:53
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It takes a lot of time and willingness to suffer setbacks and defeats, especially when you're not astroturfed three ways from Sunday and have a half century of propaganda coming into every pore all around you from diverse sources of media. I see a lot of spineless doormats who poo poo themselves at the idea of risking losing anything anytime and wonder why their shortsighted bullshit has ended up costing them basically almost the entire Federal Government, a ton gently caress of states and locals. This poo poo isn't some casual brunch or a hobby project. This is lifetime(s) of hard work and learning to walk forward with a limp.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:53
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Magres posted:Way to ignore the important part of the post you dingdong. Centrists have triangulated so much at this point that they basically *are* fascists.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:58
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D.Ork Bimboolean posted:It takes a lot of time and willingness to suffer setbacks and defeats, especially when you're not astroturfed three ways from Sunday and have a half century of propaganda coming into every pore all around you from diverse sources of media. Dems have been hanging on for dear life since 2009, trying to prevent the worst from happening, and now that they finally lost a good amount, some bad stuff is happening. Not gonna turn that around in one cycle, but keeping control of the House by any means necessary through 2020 to get districts redrawn and prevent something worse from happening is a good first step. Lots of other poo poo needs to happen simultaneously though, and none of it at the polls.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:58
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And now you've got the usual idiots in D&D already talking about why Bernie is now a bad candidate. The 2020 Dem primary may actually kill me.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:59
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WampaLord posted:And now you've got the usual idiots in D&D already talking about why Bernie is now a bad candidate. Yeah it's gonna suck, I'm gonna just go suck a shotgun when Hillary runs again and gets the nomination again through shady horseshit
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Oct 11, 2018 00:00
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WampaLord posted:And now you've got the usual idiots in D&D already talking about why Bernie is now a bad candidate. good thing Bernie isn't a democrat, and will still win
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Oct 11, 2018 00:00
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WampaLord posted:And now you've got the usual idiots in D&D already talking about why Bernie is now a bad candidate. Train fulchrum to this thread
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Oct 11, 2018 00:01
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Azathoth posted:Dems have been hanging on for dear life since 2009, trying to prevent the worst from happening, and now that they finally lost a good amount, some bad stuff is happening. Not gonna turn that around in one cycle, but keeping control of the House by any means necessary through 2020 to get districts redrawn and prevent something worse from happening is a good first step. Lots of other poo poo needs to happen simultaneously though, and none of it at the polls. This is true but also we're already at a state of fascist and corruption normalization, that even a 'nice' democratic victory now and even in 2020 isn't going to hit the pause button. It will just let them regroup, blame all the ills they created on the weak liberals who will waffle and vasselate and compromise on anything they can, continuing the trend of sacrificing the left to hold off defeat until its too late again and we get another round of this.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:02
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Uncle Wemus posted:Train fulchrum to this thread god nothing would be more hilarious
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Oct 11, 2018 00:03
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Uncle Wemus posted:Train fulchrum to this thread
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Oct 11, 2018 00:03
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Azathoth posted:Dems have been hanging on for dear life since 2009, trying to prevent the worst from happening, and now that they finally lost a good amount, some bad stuff is happening. Not gonna turn that around in one cycle, but keeping control of the House by any means necessary through 2020 to get districts redrawn and prevent something worse from happening is a good first step. Lots of other poo poo needs to happen simultaneously though, and none of it at the polls. You need state legislatures to redraw the congressional maps in your favor, not the federal house.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:07
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D.Ork Bimboolean posted:This is true but also we're already at a state of fascist and corruption normalization, that even a 'nice' democratic victory now and even in 2020 isn't going to hit the pause button. It will just let them regroup, blame all the ills they created on the weak liberals who will waffle and vasselate and compromise on anything they can, continuing the trend of sacrificing the left to hold off defeat until its too late again and we get another round of this. I view voting as a necessary condition to stopping and reversing the creeping fascism we're seeing now, but it is by no means sufficient to stop it. Voting themselves in is just one vector for fascism, and that particular vector must absolutely be countered with voting for folks who will stop fascism's legal spread. At a minimum, every election must be viewed as a chance to at least slow it down. The real work of stopping fascism cannot be left to politicians or even be done by them alone, but they can help and they can hurt, so we at least gotta engage in that part of the fight.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:10
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Moridin920 posted:https://www.businessinsider.com/major-study-finds-that-the-us-is-an-oligarchy-2014-4 America is a bourgeois dictatorship put very simply. It should be apparent to anyone without a peanut brain.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:11
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King of Solomon posted:You need state legislatures to redraw the congressional maps in your favor, not the federal house. Sorry, you're right, but I think my overall point stands. Control of the House can and will stop some loving supervillain laws from coming down. Now that Kavanaugh is confirmed, if Roe gets overturned and we don't get control of the House back, they will absolutely ban abortion nationwide if not stopped. States will still do it individually, but that can be reversed if we win in 2020.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:14
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Azathoth posted:Sorry, you're right, but I think my overall point stands. Control of the House can and will stop some loving supervillain laws from coming down. the democrats controlled the house for an enormous amount of the entire country's lifespan and even in their control things have gotten significantly worse economically
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Oct 11, 2018 00:18
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Azathoth posted:Sorry, you're right, but I think You could stop here because you make it pretty obvious you haven't thought beyond 2016. Blue No Matter Who still wants a border fence, free will to murder Muslim civilians abroad, and the only legitimate power is corporate power.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:19
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Azathoth posted:Sorry, you're right, but I think my overall point stands. Control of the House can and will stop some loving supervillain laws from coming down. love to think the political horizon is just reflexively defending the established law from decades ago. q
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Oct 11, 2018 00:23
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anime was right posted:the democrats controlled the house for an enormous amount of the entire country's lifespan and even in their control things have gotten significantly worse economically Democrats have been lovely for a while, but unlike the GOP, have a chance to be not lovely.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:23
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:love to think the political horizon is just reflexively defending the established law from decades ago. q poo poo, not saying we shouldn't get better, but with Trump's veto pen, good luck getting anything meaningful through. Fixing this poo poo is a multi year project and the first step when you're falling down a mountain is to arrest your slide, not stand back up and try to march upwards.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:26
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Azathoth posted:Democrats have been lovely for a while, but unlike the GOP, have a chance to be not lovely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agh70crfUYQ&t=5s
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Oct 11, 2018 00:27
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Taintrunner posted:You could stop here because you make it pretty obvious you haven't thought beyond 2016. Yes, we can't fix everything in one magic election, better consign ourselves to never improving and just give up. Much better that way.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:28
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So the dems in WA want to just go ahead and raise the bar for young Americans to buy guns. Sorry guys. Since some rear end in a top hat in ANOTHER STATE shot some kids you gotta wait till youre 21 now. I swear to god if WA-1639 passes then I've lost all hope for the entire west coast. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 11, 2018 00:38
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MaxPowers posted:So the dems in WA want to just go ahead and raise the bar for young Americans to buy guns. Sorry guys. Since some rear end in a top hat in ANOTHER STATE shot some kids you gotta wait till youre 21 now. My hometown in WA has a loving Atomwaffe division, so this is a positive development actually. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:41
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MaxPowers posted:So the dems in WA want to just go ahead and raise the bar for young Americans to buy guns. Sorry guys. Since some rear end in a top hat in ANOTHER STATE shot some kids you gotta wait till youre 21 now. ayup, this is the correct thread for comments like that. quote your source though
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Oct 11, 2018 00:50
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e: oh yeah n/m forgot what thread this was
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Oct 11, 2018 00:50
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Magres posted:Yeah it's gonna suck, I'm gonna just go suck a shotgun when Hillary runs again and gets the nomination again through shady horseshit Nah there are too many other establishment dems who want a shot at the big chair in order to let her clear the field again. I think there is a good possibility to run but she isn't going to get anywhere.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:57
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MaxPowers posted:So the dems in WA want to just go ahead and raise the bar for young Americans to buy guns. Sorry guys. Since some rear end in a top hat in ANOTHER STATE shot some kids you gotta wait till youre 21 now. that ad is fuckin great
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