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https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-1433170798 "The source who outlined the account of how Khashoggi was killed said that police investigators were confident they already had enough forensic evidence from searches of the sewage network connected to the building." 
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Oct 11, 2018 01:11
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i thought this kind of thing only happened in movies
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Oct 11, 2018 01:13
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I wonder if Haley's resignation is related somehow.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:15
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i thought this kind of thing only happened in movies I mean, the Turkish police are dodgy enough that they might simply be looking at the balance of probabilities and cooking up a suitably spicy story. Don't get me wrong, the dude's almost certainly dead, but unless Turkey starts showing its work, it'll probably be best to take any particularly lurid and specific details with a grain of salt.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:26
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, the Turkish police are dodgy enough that they might simply be looking at the balance of probabilities and cooking up a suitably spicy story. Don't get me wrong, the dude's almost certainly dead, but unless Turkey starts showing its work, it'll probably be best to take any particularly lurid and specific details with a grain of salt. Turkey is shady as gently caress, but given the other side in this is the Saudis? Turkey might as well be Sweden.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:35
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Sinteres posted:IMO the biggest reason we play nice with the Saudis is the same reason we've played nice with Pakistan: we hate a lot of the poo poo they do, but we're even more afraid of what they'd do if we walked away from them. thats also why we don't just topple their government in whatever dumb terrible way we would do it. because then the scarier monsters could take power. Spergin Morlock posted:https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-1433170798 the probably flushed the pieces down the toilet or in a manhole. christ.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:40
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Grape posted:Turkey is shady as gently caress, but given the other side in this is the Saudis? Turkey might as well be Sweden. Not really. There were already some discrepancies in the names and photos of the 15 Saudi's they accused of being on the team that flew to Turkey right before Khashoggi's disappearance. State media has an itchy trigger finger on this subject for some reason, and the state of Turkish journalism in general is not very good. All these minute details they are putting out that no one else has need to be corroborated or taken with a grain of salt.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:42
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i thought this kind of thing only happened in movies "idiot prince trying to make a name for himself ruins kingdom" turns out to happen a lot in history too
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Oct 11, 2018 01:43
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Spergin Morlock posted:https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-1433170798 ugh gross. This article also suggest how the Turkish government may have obtained video/audio of the killing. KHashoggi was possibly wearing an apple watch synced with his fiancee's phone.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:47
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:"idiot prince trying to make a name for himself ruins kingdom" turns out to happen a lot in history too i specifically meant the bit about cutting the dude into chunks and flushing him down the toilet
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Oct 11, 2018 01:49
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i specifically meant the bit about cutting the dude into chunks and flushing him down the toilet Edward II of England. flushing hadn't been invented yet, tho, assassin just shoved him down his own shitter once he was done. not a popular man, Ed II.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:51
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Grape posted:Turkey is shady as gently caress, but given the other side in this is the Saudis? Turkey might as well be Sweden. As I said, they probably got the generalities right about what happened. It's specific, outrageous details you'll probably wanna side-eye a bit.
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Oct 11, 2018 02:02
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pro starcraft loser posted:Outside of purchasing US military equipment, what does SA do for us? The Saudi royal family are a good way for the US to access KSA's oil without having to annex the oil fields directly. The world would not tolerate the US unilaterally annexing KSA's oil fields because it would turn the US into something beyond a superpower (maybe an ascended superpower), which would then be able to make all of Europe its economical bitch.
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Oct 11, 2018 02:03
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Americans think their government is some kind of soviet style ideologically consistent monolith playing 4d chess when everyone in Russia and China knows that American legislators are basically at the level of a small town party secretary and will suck your dick if you donated like $50k to their campaigns.
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Oct 11, 2018 02:17
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Throatwarbler posted:Americans think their government is some kind of soviet style ideologically consistent monolith playing 4d chess when everyone in Russia and China knows that American legislators are basically at the level of a small town party secretary and will suck your dick if you donated like $50k to their campaigns. You're not American are you.
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Oct 11, 2018 02:23
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Throatwarbler posted:Americans think their government is some kind of soviet style ideologically consistent monolith playing 4d chess when everyone in Russia and China knows that American legislators are basically at the level of a small town party secretary and will suck your dick if you donated like $50k to their campaigns. Lol are you from luhansk or something
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Oct 11, 2018 02:31
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Hello, I am Joe Average America, and I tell you hwhat if there's one thing I know about my country it's ironclad ideological agreement exists in the government And the idea that many of it's members are buck toothed hayseeds is quite foreign to me. Also, cowabunga yeeha yo yo yo.
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Oct 11, 2018 02:36
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Spergin Morlock posted:https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-1433170798 I hope the Turks DNA tested whatever body parts they found to make sure they weren't body parts their own security services dumped in the sewers.
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Oct 11, 2018 03:03
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Throatwarbler posted:Americans think their government is some kind of soviet style ideologically consistent monolith playing 4d chess when everyone in Russia and China knows that American legislators are basically at the level of a small town party secretary and will suck your dick if you donated like $50k to their campaigns. Good luck telling even lefty Americans that their decrepit loving Constitutional system is the cause of a lot of their problems, all they're going to hear is white noise. People actually think a bunch of backwater, slave raping, bucket shitters invented the perfect form of government or something.
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Oct 11, 2018 03:15
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Throatwarbler posted:Americans think their government is some kind of soviet style ideologically consistent monolith playing 4d chess when everyone in Russia and China knows that American legislators are basically at the level of a small town party secretary and will suck your dick if you donated like $50k to their campaigns. Lookit this rube who think you need 50k to influence an elected official. At least Chinese politicians will expect decent bribes and under krysha you at least get something for your money 50 bucks of coupons for yardsigns is more like it in the US for a senator, less for local officials
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Oct 11, 2018 03:32
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Volkerball posted:KSA is a legacy ally from an era where gas rations and lines at pumps around the block could make or break political parties. Islamophobia is trending up, and the importance of oil is trending down, so the writing is on the wall for them. otoh, MBS selling off much of his country to private western interests may earn him a lot of permanent friends in high places.
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Oct 11, 2018 03:45
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enraged_camel posted:you dont need 15 people to clean up a bunch of blood and body parts It's called "on the job training" in the west.
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Oct 11, 2018 04:35
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tsa posted:It's called "on the job training" in the west. "On the job braining", in this case.
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Oct 11, 2018 04:36
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Ego-bot posted:otoh, MBS selling off much of his country to private western interests may earn him a lot of permanent friends in high places. That analysis also ignores that the US will never ditch SA unless it has also ditched Israel, since Israel will never not hate Iran and SA is an obvious ally in that fight. Though they are correct that the relationship will sour somewhat to fairly significantly from where it was decades ago. Another important consideration is that if SA feels threatened enough there's a very non-zero chance they get nukes.
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Oct 11, 2018 04:45
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Ego-bot posted:otoh, MBS selling off much of his country to private western interests may earn him a lot of permanent friends in high places. I'm gonna sound like an 18-year-old communist who just read marx for the first time, but making some corporate executives richer is not going to buy anyone any lasting loyalty. Especially not 'permanent friends.'
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Oct 11, 2018 05:25
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qkkl posted:If you're going to torture and dismember someone for criticizing you it is important to video tape it so you can show other dissidents what could happen to them if they don't shut up. The problem here is that MBS did not follow Putin's lead on how to assassinate dissidents. He needed to make it seem like unofficial pro-MBS guys did the killing, and in a random area, rather than an official regime assassination squad in the Saudi consulate. The reason for the taping was because MBS said "I want his head on a silver platter" and the hatchet men had to tape that and upload it to a the security services own Google drive for MBS to see.
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Oct 11, 2018 05:31
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Ego-bot posted:otoh, MBS selling off much of his country to private western interests may earn him a lot of permanent friends in high places. Pretty sure that plan went on hold indefinitely after he kidnapped all those millionaires and foreign capital realized there was nothing that could stop him from robbing or extorting any investments in the Kingdom. Like there's no real reason for me to suspect this but if King Salman and MBS continue to gently caress up the way they have they're just begging for a coup of some kind. Bogging the armed forces down in an unwinnable war? Check. Pissing off the religious conservatives with liberalization? Yiup. Crudely threatening the property of the elite? You betcha. Screwing several rival members of the royal family out of the succession? Oh yeah. They've even caused a mild recession with GDP contracting roughly 1% in the last year due to pointless fuckery with foreign born workers. Pointlessly western states and repeatedly embarrassing yourself on the international stage? hell yeah. Of course Saudi politics is so opaque and personal, if anybody was plotting a coup I doubt there'd be any kind of advance warning. All I can do is wildly speculate. Most likely everybody important is sufficiently cowed/payed off and nobody's going to rock the boat. Of course if anybody did want to plot, I'm sure there are at least a few ambitious princes willing to make a play for the throne. . .
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Oct 11, 2018 07:24
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Ego-bot posted:otoh, MBS selling off much of his country to private western interests may earn him a lot of permanent friends in high places. The IPO of Aramco, MBS's flagship policy that's intended to pay for basically everything, is on indefinite hold right now so we can't even rely on that.
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Oct 11, 2018 11:40
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I'm gonna sound like an 18-year-old communist who just read marx for the first time, but making some corporate executives richer is not going to buy anyone any lasting loyalty. Especially not 'permanent friends.' Isn't that Russia's current international relations model they're trying to advertise? You help our corrupt kleptocracy, and you have a friend for life no matter what.
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Oct 11, 2018 12:45
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https://twitter.com/alexjrowell/status/1050293295115587585 Here's the quiet part out loud: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/11/trump-saudi-arabia-arms-sales-khashoggi-disappearance-892060 President Donald Trump said late Wednesday that he is reluctant to cut off arms sales to Saudi Arabia if the kingdom is found to be responsible for the assumed death of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi, believing such a move could be detrimental to the U.S. economy. "We have a country that's doing probably better economically than it's ever done before," Trump said during an interview with Fox News anchor Shannon Bream. "A part of that is what we are doing with our defense systems and everybody is wanting them and, frankly, I think that would be a very, very tough pill to swallow for our country." Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Oct 11, 2018 |
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Oct 11, 2018 14:03
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Sinteres posted:https://twitter.com/alexjrowell/status/1050293295115587585 The best part of Abrams’ argument is how “enlightened” only applies to his loosening the collar they keep women on. Nothing like full emancipation or ending guardianship. It’s like praising a country for ending slavery but keeping indentured servitude(hmmm sounds familiar actually).
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Oct 11, 2018 17:04
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Coldwar timewarp posted:It’s like praising a country for ending slavery except for convicts. Yep.
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Oct 11, 2018 17:41
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KSA isn't broken out but the US has apparently sold $56b in weapons this year so far, a nearly 33% increase on last year. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/410754-us-sold-56b-in-weapons-to-other-countries-in-2018
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Oct 11, 2018 18:45
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Grape posted:You're not American are you. LeoMarr posted:Lol are you from luhansk or something In one of the major political parties even getting a party endorsement and access to its machinery involves proving that you can "self fund" your campaign. Or to put it another way, you have to prove that a sufficient amount of business interests are bribing you before you even get a shot at a race. That party isn't the GOP.
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Oct 11, 2018 22:40
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Coldwar timewarp posted:The best part of Abrams’ argument is how “enlightened” only applies to his loosening the collar they keep women on. Nothing like full emancipation or ending guardianship. It’s like praising a country for ending slavery but keeping indentured servitude(hmmm sounds familiar actually). its not even that. its like praising a country for ending slavery, but they didn't end it at all and they may have given the slaves the "privileged" of not being whipped every day, but now every other day.
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Oct 12, 2018 00:21
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Feldegast42 posted:In one of the major political parties even getting a party endorsement and access to its machinery involves proving that you can "self fund" your campaign. Or to put it another way, you have to prove that a sufficient amount of business interests are bribing you before you even get a shot at a race. Shockingly, random people with no money and no support don't get straight to Senate seats from nothing.
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Oct 12, 2018 01:05
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fishmech posted:Shockingly, random people with no money and no support don't get straight to Senate seats from nothing. most civilised countries have systems restricting spending or making party apparatuses more powerful, allowing people with little to no financial pull to enter politics one of the guys representing the region where i live in parliament was a student when he got elected
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Oct 12, 2018 01:22
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the point being, there are ways to limit the bizarre excess of influence that money has on politics in america, or at least make personal access to wealthy donors less of a barrier to entry
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Oct 12, 2018 01:24
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lol jk the point is death to america
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Oct 12, 2018 01:25
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V. Illych L. posted:most civilised countries have systems restricting spending or making party apparatuses more powerful, allowing people with little to no financial pull to enter politics Ok, and? What that guy's demanding is showing up with no support or money and getting the full bulk of a particular party's efforts behind you. V. Illych L. posted:the point being, there are ways to limit the bizarre excess of influence that money has on politics in america, or at least make personal access to wealthy donors less of a barrier to entry What the person is asking for is explicitly access to wealthy donors though.
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Oct 12, 2018 01:39
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