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ugusername posted:What doesn't it add? It's just some background stuff that there is a lot of weird dangers in Stolen Lands. Maybe even a notion that's something unusual and magicky is going on around. It's nice imo. Better to have it than not. It's a trash fire of an encounter. If player catches on that something's up, they either ignore the trap, or save, spring it and get rolled, reload and ignore the trap. If they don't catch on, the game autosaves anyway, so they get rolled, reload and ignore the trap. If someone knows what's coming, they can buy a scroll that shuts down the encounter, at which point they are rewarded with an entire fight of fishing for crits against an enemy that has 30 ac on normal. None of that is compelling in any respect. The only way to interact with the encounter is to be "fooled" and try to rest at the camp. That in itself is bad design, even if the resulting fight hadn't been an unfun slog. Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Oct 11, 2018 |
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Oct 11, 2018 16:14
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Keeshhound posted:It's a trash fire of an encounter. If player catches on that something's up, they either ignore the trap, or save, spring it and gets rolled, reload and ignore the trap. If they don't catch on, the game autosaves anyway, so they get rolled, reload and ignore the trap. It's just a world filling. I mean I am a completionist too and I slogged through but I didn't have to and I wasn't meant to. It's just that a small story about unlucky group that fell prey to a magic creature that somehow found its way here. Hey maybe later in the story I will learn what's happening in this lands that makes all this crazy magical beasts appear all over. I killed Shambling Mound too since I felt sorry for it. And it was super tough too although at least it's abusable with Entangle and Web. I didn't have to, it is too just a story about crazy researcher. Maybe it will lead to something maybe it won't but it's still nice to just have here. Old Sycamore is an area that made me fall in love with the game precisely because there is so much stuff around. It's not just a map to clear and loot. It's filled with small inconsequential stories that are just there to make the world feel alive and magical. Hopefully this feeling will not disappear later on. I intentionally try to go through slowly cause of that. Well that and infamously bugged lategame.
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Oct 11, 2018 16:27
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It's not so much that I'm annoyed that the game is basically springing a trap too strong monster at you, it's more that... in every crpg I've played, when I go to an area balanced for a certain level, I usually expect everything in that area to fit that level. Like the Enraged Greater Owlbears. They're tucked away in a side area that's clearly cut off from the main zone, but there's nothing indicating that that fight is hard. I liked how PoE1 handled it. They were bounties, and until you accepted the bounty, those hard enemies didn't appear at all. The dead bodies should be a giveaway that it's a tough fight, but the fight in question is nigh unwinnable at the level you expect to encounter it first, short of being super prepared and forewarned.
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Oct 11, 2018 16:33
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Sky Shadowing posted:It's not so much that I'm annoyed that the game is basically springing a trap too strong monster at you, it's more that... in every crpg I've played, when I go to an area balanced for a certain level, I usually expect everything in that area to fit that level. I think someone upthread said this game is pure PF with an rear end in a top hat DM, nothing in the rules forbids these encounters, so there they are
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Oct 11, 2018 16:39
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61440 xp for a single intimidate check seems like a lot... but I'll take it! Amag's tomb DC 50 tell the ghost to move his bitch rear end for the ruler of the stolen lands.
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Oct 11, 2018 16:42
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I like the ability to run into crazy encounters, it's good I like Gothic too, very refined taste me
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Oct 11, 2018 16:53
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The only problem with overpowered and 'random' encounters is the inability to retreat from them. I got stuck in a stupid loop of dying last night because of this. Only when I dropped the damage received to next to nothing, was I able to escape.
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Oct 11, 2018 17:00
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I don't mind having optional difficulty spikes, but they should be interesting; even removed from the circumstances of the poorly implanted ambush, the wisp just isn't going to be a fun fight.
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Oct 11, 2018 17:01
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:61440 xp for a single intimidate check seems like a lot... but I'll take it! Amag's tomb DC 50 tell the ghost to move his bitch rear end for the ruler of the stolen lands.
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Oct 11, 2018 18:07
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ugusername posted:This a hundred times over. Recently realized that if you're fast enough and have access to invisibility you actually can get out of combat and exit the location. But sometimes you're just geeked right by the entrance. loving wererats gently caress you with your keen kukris and gently caress your bullshit invisibility and your full magic gear and your loving alchemist buddy. Was super satisfying destroying them right before going for Staglord with Glitterdust and summons. One thing about that Ratnook Hill fight in particular: there is an alarm trap right outside the entrance that is bloody hard to spot (I don't remember the perception DC exactly but it seems higher than the other traps there), but if you manage not to trigger it then the rats won't be invisible when you go in and you can surprise them instead of the other way around.
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Oct 11, 2018 18:49
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Goa Tse-tung posted:I think someone upthread said this game is pure PF with an rear end in a top hat DM, nothing in the rules forbids these encounters, so there they are Basically there's two ways to balance encounters in Pathfinder and similar games. You can create tailored encounters at an appropriate level for and using the capabilities of the party, or you can make encounters that fit the world or setting and make the party overcome those encounters, even if those encounters are far above the party's level. The devs obviously chose the second, which is a very notable change because the original Kingmaker Adventure Path is very much the first tailored encounters philosophy. Choosing not to do tailored encounters doesn't make them an rear end in a top hat, but it is distinctively old-school and more challenging in a way people don't expect. However, in the larger structure of Kingmaker as what is called a hexcrawl (where you explore the wilderness using hexes as the units of travel), the create a challenging world philosophy is actually the historically common and more appropriate approach.
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Oct 11, 2018 19:16
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Look, either encounters are tailored to the characters and the world is artificially limited, or they're not, and the world(and the adventure by extension) is freeform. Mixing those two approaches is just asking for a shitshow. When everything I encounter except Viscount +12DexMod is within my level range, including enemies that shouldn't be, it just begs the question of why only certain enemies are vastly overtuned for no discernible reason beyond "gently caress you".
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Oct 11, 2018 19:23
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Not being to escape plus unfaithful stat adaptations for enemies is bullshit no matter how much you like the game or philosophize the game design.
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Oct 11, 2018 19:29
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I'm conflicted on the Viscount. on one hand I think that putting a demilich into a level 3-4ish zone is just... gently caress off design. On the other hand I think that there's a weird... I dunno... world simulator(dunno how to express it, the part of me that wants the world to actively remind me that my character is not the chosen one with a special destiny he's being carefully guided to, he's just a guy in the wilds trying to befriend kobolds and the wilds are loving dangerous?) part of my brain that is tickled pink. The game basically informs you that sleeping there is a trap, you see a group of dead adventurers, IIRC they even have pretty decent gear for the zone you can loot off their corpses. It's Schroedinger's design, both terrible and awesome at the same time and then when you fight the Viscount the wave-form collapses into a weird dumbassery collage.
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Oct 11, 2018 19:45
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It's not a demilich - in fact it's not undead at all. It's a named Will-o'-Wisp, which is why it uses electricity and fear attacks only. The things feed on fear, which is why it terrifies people before killing them. There's also a sequence of named Will-o'-Wisps scattered throughout the game, so it's definitely flavor of some sort. And I honestly disagree with there being wildly out of proportion challenges scattered around being bad. As long as there's either a good clue (like the camp filled with people who died of burns while terrified - seriously, it's blatant schmuck bait) or they're in a side area it's fine (like the Crag Linnorm) I don't have a problem with it. The real problems with overtuned stats are the odd random enemies with no real indicator other than just an adjective added to the base name, with stats wildly out of line with what it should have.
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Oct 11, 2018 19:58
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I remember when I was going to actually run into the viscount, but then my npcs bugged out trying to path to the camp site and I just said "Whatever" and walked away.
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Oct 11, 2018 20:02
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OK, in the process of doing save game editing shenanigans, why the gently caress is there a file listing literally everything that happened in the game. Scripts starting, area transitions, item pickups and drops, pause/unpauses, dialog choices selected, dice rolls for the misc stuff in the world (perception/trickery). This poo poo is taking up like 4MB of my 18MB save file. If this is necessary (which given the bugs probably is), the game should not be in a "released" state
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Oct 11, 2018 20:03
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Wisps aren't really meant to directly attack though; their deal is that they try to trick you into walking into danger on your own, then they feed on your fear while you get pulled under in quicksand or something. Also, they're CR6, and they're supposed to hang around swampy areas, which isn't a great fit for the map populated with mites and kobolds.
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Oct 11, 2018 20:05
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Zodiac5000 posted:I'm conflicted on the Viscount. on one hand I think that putting a demilich into a level 3-4ish zone is just... gently caress off design. On the other hand I think that there's a weird... I dunno... world simulator(dunno how to express it, the part of me that wants the world to actively remind me that my character is not the chosen one with a special destiny he's being carefully guided to, he's just a guy in the wilds trying to befriend kobolds and the wilds are loving dangerous?) part of my brain that is tickled pink. That sense is called verisimilitude and was basically the holy grail of old-school D&D, which is what Kingmaker directly is trying to evoke.
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Oct 11, 2018 20:05
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Cynic Jester posted:Look, either encounters are tailored to the characters and the world is artificially limited, or they're not, and the world(and the adventure by extension) is freeform. Mixing those two approaches is just asking for a shitshow. When everything I encounter except Viscount +12DexMod is within my level range, including enemies that shouldn't be, it just begs the question of why only certain enemies are vastly overtuned for no discernible reason beyond "gently caress you". I mean, there is a middle ground between Oblivion-style "everything is scaled precisely to the player" and New Vegas-style "go THIS way outside the starting town, not THAT one, or else you'll be eaten by deathclaws". The reason everything you encounter is within your level range is mostly because you're sticking to areas where that is mostly the case, because with only moderate care in design it's possible to have a pretty freeform campaign experience chock-full of verisimilitude (and Arivia is right, that's a very key consideration in the old-school D&D design space) while still mostly only confronting players with stuff they can handle. BG1-style wilderness area exploration, I'm thinking of, and this game is definitely trying to do something like that and even mostly succeeds - you have to wander pretty deliberately far afield to do it but you CAN encounter "outside level range" stuff as common map filler once the map opens up after Chapter 1. I agree that, even outside the obvious rear end in a top hat DM encounters like Viscount Smoulderburn or the Greater Enraged Owlbears, certain enemies (ironically, mostly other owlbears, I'm wondering if they're some kind of mascot of theirs or something) are weirdly overtuned for no good reason, but I think the dichotomy you're drawing is somewhat too simple.
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Oct 11, 2018 20:32
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Glenn Quebec posted:Not being to escape plus unfaithful stat adaptations for enemies is bullshit no matter how much you like the game or philosophize the game design.
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Oct 11, 2018 20:40
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I'm playing on Story difficulty and it's preposterous how many times I've escaped a combat by casting invisibility on one guy and accidentally defeated it while trying to sneak my companions away when they revive. I want the combat done yeah, but I want to regroup and do it properly 
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Oct 11, 2018 20:56
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caedwalla posted:My PC is a level 9 grenadier and for the past few levels, bombs have felt super underwhelming. On paper 5d6+4 a couple times a round is impressive but it can be fiddly to use and compared to Nok Nok, Ekundayo and Octavia the damage is really underwhelming. Actually! https://pathfinder.deev.io/ This thing works like a charm.
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Oct 11, 2018 22:28
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For an evil playthrough I’m thinking I wanna go blightdruid; are there any cool gimmicky class combinations I can add on to that to be stupidly overpowered in some fashion or another?
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Oct 11, 2018 22:35
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Mad Wack posted:game is basically super buggy post the big barb fight - i have people talking about characters i never met, npcs showing up in response to decisions that havent even come up in the plot yet and lots of broken side quests - looks like the main plot is beatable though, there are people on the discord talking about beating the game (but its bugged too and you get a game over screen when you win) I was thinking the other day that I don't quite understand what everyone is going on about with game breaking bugs, because things seemed fine for me. Then I did Amiri's quest where you meet her tribe, and saw the incredible dip in quality for the localization and though "hmm". And then the bugs came.
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Oct 12, 2018 02:41
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lurksion posted:OK, in the process of doing save game editing shenanigans, why the gently caress is there a file listing literally everything that happened in the game. Can you completely delete a character? My Ekundayo has two dogs following him around somehow. In town one will stick with him and the other will spawn in randomly on whatever map I'm on
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Oct 12, 2018 02:48
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Clearly the other dog is yours.
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Oct 12, 2018 04:15
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Re: difficulty spikes, I think it's telling that the devs never bothered to implement the Withdraw or Run actions so you can actually run away instead of just reloading after being inescapably hosed.
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Oct 12, 2018 04:26
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Roadie posted:Re: difficulty spikes, I think it's telling that the devs never bothered to implement the Withdraw or Run actions so you can actually run away instead of just reloading after being inescapably hosed. You sure back during the scene were the nymph ambushes you with a hydra, owlbear and other things I just ran away and succeeded.
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Oct 12, 2018 05:21
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There is an option to move slowly to avoid attacks of opportunity using Acrobatics (keyed off mobility) but I don't think I've ever clicked it. You can't really peel off from defenders to get the backlines effectively in real time, better to just eat the AOO and charge in
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Oct 12, 2018 05:28
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Does this game actually have proper documentation anywhere? It’s hard to make choices about how to build my characters when I don’t know what any of the spells are, but the character building screen doesn’t even tell you your spell progression, let alone what spells you might be able to choose. And that’s not to mention how confusing and misleading some of the feat descriptions are (e.g. dueling swords work with weapon finesse, but weapon finesse doesn’t include them in its description. Are there any other weapons it neglects to mention?). Inquisitors and alchemists look cool, but I have no idea what kind of spells they get at all. I’m trying to build a sword saint focused on dex and int, but I don’t know if it’s worth it to splash a couple levels of monk and duelist because I don’t know what spells I’m going to get and when I’m going to get them. I want to build a proper hybrid, not a fighter with a few buffs, so I’m hesitant to take too many levels outside of sword saint, but I don’t know if I’ll miss important magus arcana, or how crucial the sixth level spells are. I realize regular magus or scaled fist is better for a more casting focused character, but those both also seem better as strength builds. Also, would multiclassing magus with eldritch knight let you attack and cast three spells per round (melee touch spell on your weapon attack, another spell from spell combat, a third spell as a swift action if you crit)? If so, that looks pretty fun.
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Oct 12, 2018 06:15
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Sky Shadowing posted:It's not so much that I'm annoyed that the game is basically springing a trap too strong monster at you, it's more that... in every crpg I've played, when I go to an area balanced for a certain level, I usually expect everything in that area to fit that level. No offense then, because how many have you played? Because this is exactly how BG1/2, IWD1/2, and NWN2 play. This is a genre that has always been built around the idea of world building through mixed encounters. BG1 having a goddamn bear right in the starter zone that'll absolutely shred 90% of the parties that reach it. Basically half of the BG2 quests leading to encounters you can't handle until higher levels, forcing you to level up through easier quests before you can turn back and finally handle the Shadowlord/Firkraag. The beauty of encounter design like this is it gives players a chance to skew the game in their favor once they learn the mechanics better. The basilisks in BG1 are a fantastic example of this. If you don't know how to handle basilisks, or where they are, you'll mysteriously open up an area and suddenly lose half your party. But if you know what to do, you can bring a scroll to counter them and have your MC slowly but surely kill all of them, gaining 2-3 levels off of a single encounter. Or if you go to Firkraag early you can't get to some of his later treasures, but you can with a high enough sneak get some of the closer stuff, and that includes a number of +2-3 items and a unique sword that helps against the Shadowlord. It also helps flesh out the world immensely. I shouldn't be able to clear every single encounter as I encounter it. If I'm level 3 and find a bear cave, I should have an element of "oh, well I'll come back here later then." or a way I can use the tools I've built up to deal with it. If I know the game world well enough I can still likely figure out a strategy for how to deal with xyz mob and get the loot/exp for killing it early. It adds to the world because most world spaces should have random bears, or random fuckoff things to them, and it keeps games from falling into the trap of leveling zones into neat categories. There is nothing more boring then a game where each zone can only have enemies up to xyz level, and then you get to later zones and it's nothing but high level enemies because it's the high level enemy zone. That takes away from stories they could potentially tell, or ideas they could have when they are basically forced to put max level enemies into a zone. This game has a severe difficulty problem/AC problem, but it's more tied to the core encounters then actual world building. The fact it pushes you to Temple first/bear. The Technic Mages encounter and how it doesn't really tell you losing is ok there. Hell, even the fight at the Trading Post are all fairly uh, severe in ways they shouldn't be, and those are things that can be toned down. But stuff like the Viscount, Act 1 Troll, and even the Spider Queen are fairly telegraphed and can be returned to at a later date when you have more ability to handle them.
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Oct 12, 2018 06:30
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Does this game actually have proper documentation anywhere? It’s hard to make choices about how to build my characters when I don’t know what any of the spells are, but the character building screen doesn’t even tell you your spell progression, let alone what spells you might be able to choose. And that’s not to mention how confusing and misleading some of the feat descriptions are (e.g. dueling swords work with weapon finesse, but weapon finesse doesn’t include them in its description. Are there any other weapons it neglects to mention?). Inquisitors and alchemists look cool, but I have no idea what kind of spells they get at all. So not everything is the same, but if there's not specific documentation for the CRPG, look at documentation for the tabletop game. http://aonprd.com/ is the best resource for looking up stuff for the tabletop game for now, and definitely spell progression is the same, with spells a subset of what's listed there.
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Oct 12, 2018 06:54
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Does this game actually have proper documentation anywhere? It’s hard to make choices about how to build my characters when I don’t know what any of the spells are, but the character building screen doesn’t even tell you your spell progression, let alone what spells you might be able to choose. And that’s not to mention how confusing and misleading some of the feat descriptions are (e.g. dueling swords work with weapon finesse, but weapon finesse doesn’t include them in its description. Are there any other weapons it neglects to mention?). Inquisitors and alchemists look cool, but I have no idea what kind of spells they get at all. I'm playing a finesse sword saint, so I can answer any specific questions you have. The estoc is my weapon of choice since it has an 18-20 crit range for spellstrike. I recommend against multiclassing, since magus has nice perks all the way through, and the best one is casting an instant spell every round, so you want to keep your spell progression maxed. Monk offers some nice weapon proficiencies that nobody else can use, but sword saint wants to focus on just one type, and the AC bonus from Wisdom or Charisma aren't likely to be remarkable. Duelist tempted me as well, but in the end I'd rather have the spellcasting. I wouldn't call it a bad choice though. EK is a bad choice; you could indeed full attack and cast two* spells on a crit, but it's best with full casting classes, while magus is capped at 6th level spells and sword saint gets one less spell per spell tier. *Note that spellstrike doesn't give an extra spell cast; it casts the spell through a bonus weapon attack, which is great for spells that can crit, but sometimes worth disabling if you want to specifically target touch AC.
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Oct 12, 2018 09:54
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The Linnorm sitting in a cave near the bridge feels like what I want from random super strong encounters. It's obviously not "for you" yet, whereas all the other stuff doesn't even slightly give that impression. And if you DO manage to somehow defeat the super strong stuff you get absolutely gently caress all reward as well.
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Oct 12, 2018 10:58
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How do you deal with the Skeleton Champions at the Sycamore depths? Even with blunt weapons I don't do much damage - I'm level 3, do I need to come back later?
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Oct 12, 2018 13:42
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Comstar posted:How do you deal with the Skeleton Champions at the Sycamore depths? Even with blunt weapons I don't do much damage - I'm level 3, do I need to come back later? They are a bitch to deal with - 25 AC and high DR. Octavia's touch-attack sneak attacks are useful if you have her, and Web and peppering them with shots from afar can also work, but they are tricky to deal with at that level.
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Oct 12, 2018 14:04
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I just ignored them. They don't guard anything vital and could murder parties easily.
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Oct 12, 2018 14:07
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Comstar posted:How do you deal with the Skeleton Champions at the Sycamore depths? Even with blunt weapons I don't do much damage - I'm level 3, do I need to come back later? Channeling helped a fair bit, from what I remember. Edit: Assuming you've got a Cleric, that is.
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Oct 12, 2018 14:17
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I think I came at those guys with both Harrim AND Tristian and did lots and lots of channeling.
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Oct 12, 2018 14:28
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