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https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1052354028376649728
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Oct 17, 2018 03:00
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Radio Prune posted:The Iranian government have spent the last few decades bending over backwards to be America's friend and get in their good books at every turn, but are coldly rebuffed every time You started it.
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Oct 17, 2018 03:02
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I detest the Ayatollahs but Iran is 100 times better than the Sauds will ever be. The Sauds and their piece of poo poo religious establishment are some of the worst people on the entire planet.
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Oct 17, 2018 03:06
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Frond posted:I detest the Ayatollahs but Iran is 100 times better than the Sauds will ever be. The Sauds and their piece of poo poo religious establishment are some of the worst people on the entire planet. Excuse me, sir... uh, you'll have to come to our embassy to pick up your documents. We have an opening tomorrow at 1:30 PM if that works for you. It would be great if you can arrive 15 minutes early.
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Oct 17, 2018 03:09
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I think MBS is hosed. i am probably wrong but i feel like MBS has to many enimies in too many places/levels of power and society and political hemespheres to last long. How would we know though? It's not like the Saudi Royal family has constituents to whom they are responsible or anything. Ultimately it comes down to the whims of King Salman and the personal relationships among the most elite princes.
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Oct 17, 2018 03:26
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Darth Walrus posted:Can I get context on Friedman? I’m more familiar with Milton than Thomas. "The Moustache of Understanding". He supposedly was able to boil down complex subjects for laymen to understand, but ultimately his supposed insights were facile and pointless. Perhaps sensing this, he famously had a habit of attributing (his) profound thoughts to various Men Of The People such as taxi drivers. Aside from his prolific wrongness about the Iraq war, his seminal work was 'The World is Flat'...which i cant really say anything about that the below doesn't put better. "But when I heard the book was actually coming out, I started to worry. Among other things, I knew I would be asked to write the review. The usual ratio of Friedman criticism is 2:1, i.e., two human words to make sense of each single word of Friedmanese. Friedman is such a genius of literary incompetence that even his most innocent passages invite feature-length essays. I'll give you an example, drawn at random from The World Is Flat. On page 174, Friedman is describing a flight he took on Southwest Airlines from Baltimore to Hartford, Connecticut. (Friedman never forgets to name the company or the brand name; if he had written The Metamorphosis, Gregor Samsa would have awoken from uneasy dreams in a Sealy Posturepedic.) Here's what he says: I stomped off, went through security, bought a Cinnabon, and glumly sat at the back of the B line, waiting to be herded on board so that I could hunt for space in the overhead bins. Forget the Cinnabon. Name me a herd animal that hunts. Name me one. This would be a small thing were it not for the overall pattern. Thomas Friedman does not get these things right even by accident. It's not that he occasionally screws up and fails to make his metaphors and images agree. It's that he always screws it up. He has an anti-ear, and it's absolutely infallible; he is a Joyce or a Flaubert in reverse, incapable of rendering even the smallest details without genius. " http://www.nypress.com/flathead/ TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 04:38
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Frond posted:I detest the Ayatollahs but Iran is 100 times better than the Sauds will ever be. The Sauds and their piece of poo poo religious establishment are some of the worst people on the entire planet. People forget that the Bush Admin immediately protected the Saudis after 9/11 and made sure that the 9/11 Commission didn't focus on them too much
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Oct 17, 2018 04:41
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:"The Moustache of Understanding". He's also a huge proponent of "both US political parties are bad! Get to the middle!" thinking.
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Oct 17, 2018 04:54
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What’s your go to music to listen to while cutting someone up?
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Oct 17, 2018 05:14
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:What’s your go to music to listen to while cutting someone up? The world is flat so I bet they were listening to Post Malone's Better Now.
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Oct 17, 2018 05:15
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:What’s your go to music to listen to while cutting someone up? Stuck in the Middle with You Or if that doctor is particularly hosed up, Goodbye Horses
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Oct 17, 2018 05:34
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Frond posted:You started it. Khomeini hosed Jimmy Carter pretty hard. People in his administration were comparing Khomeini to Gandhi and throwing the Shah to the wolves and then thbbbbt. FlamingLiberal posted:also Iran didn't do 9/11 And they put chemicals in our water that makes the freakin frogs gay. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 05:55
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Volkerball posted:Khomeini hosed Jimmy Carter pretty hard. People in his administration were comparing Khomeini to Gandhi and throwing the Shah to the wolves and then thbbbbt. it rules that US apologists have to treat the pure statement of fact "Saudi nationals did 9/11, and the Bush Administration redacted all information on their ties with Saudi government" as a conspiracy theory cmon, volkerball, where's the usual rah-rah Saudi spirit, at least your buddies at the Federalist are busy saying the journalist had it coming for embarrassing our precious allies against the Iranian menace.
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Oct 17, 2018 06:10
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Sorry ze pollack, there isn't any more of a conclusive case tying the Saudi monarchy to 9/11 any more than there is tying Iran to it, to the dismay of dipshit partisans like you on either side. And you're about as likely to find a post of mine showing "rah-rah Saudi spirit" as you are to find a post of yours that doesn't suck rear end.
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Oct 17, 2018 06:22
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Volkerball posted:Sorry ze pollack, there isn't any more of a conclusive case tying the Saudi monarchy to 9/11 any more than there is tying Iran to it, to the dismay of dipshit partisans like you on either side. And you're about as likely to find a post of mine showing "rah-rah Saudi spirit" as you are to find a post of yours that doesn't suck rear end. what's a few redacted pages and emergency flights chartered between friends, eh, volkerball? after all. maybe the journalist tripped, or something. doesn't it just play into iranian hands to treat his murder as a bad thing? remember. the US is a force for good in the middle east. now hold this bone saw and smile for the cameras.
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Oct 17, 2018 06:35
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:what's a few redacted pages and emergency flights chartered between friends, eh, volkerball? after all. maybe the journalist tripped, or something. doesn't it just play into iranian hands to treat his murder as a bad thing? What a fuckin moron lol. I bet this dude hasn't seen pussy in so long he throws stones at it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 17, 2018 06:50
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:it rules that US apologists have to treat the pure statement of fact "Saudi nationals did 9/11, and the Bush Administration redacted all information on their ties with Saudi government" as a conspiracy theory You know I think FlamingLiberal might claim he was simply making a pure statement of fact, but I think his subtext was clear. He was insinuating that the government of Saudi Arabia was, if not directly involved, then at least somehow complicit in 9/11. I don't think he has any logical or evidential basis for such reasoning, but maybe he would like to present something? If he doesn't, he shouldn't make such statements as in the wrong context they can fuel anti-Arab bigotry, and are generally irresponsible. When people itt wonder why the US isn't allied with Iran instead of Saudi Arabia I think they should at least take a cursory look at history. The US began growing closer as Egypt and Syria shifted towards the Soviet Union in the 1960s. At this time US relations were good with both Saudi Arabia and Iran. Following the revolution however, Islamic and anti-imperialist leftist ideas were popularized in Iran, and institutionalized as policy. The Iran hostage crisis made the hostility mutual. Iran's new leaders also encouraged the spread of these ideas abroad, which can be seen for example in the Houthi battle cry which was an old Khomenist slogan. Largely in response to such policy, the US tended to support Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq war, intensifying in turn the feeling of Iranians that they needed to contain the US. This produced further conflict in places like Lebanon, where the 1983 bombing of US forces probably had Iranian support. Iranian support for Palestinian groups also positioned the country against the US, and also anti-American Shia militias in Iraq. Saudi Arabia on the other hand also has plenty of anti-American sentiment, which explains how people like Bin Laden were able to prosper. Regardless though, popular will is of little importance to the ancien regime, so it has hardly mattered. Saudi Arabia worked closely with the US against the Soviets in Afghanistan, and then again during the Gulf War, and Iraq War. The Saudi crown has long been the sworn enemy of al Qaeda, and even though most of the 9/11 plotters were Saudis, has has been amply demonstrated in recent history, the government is so incompetent its actually completely believable the authorities would be oblivious. So like could there be an alternative timeline where the US today was allied with Iran and opposing Saudi Arabia? idk, but getting to that point from here would mean getting over a lot of history.
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Oct 17, 2018 07:07
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Volkerball posted:Sorry ze pollack, there isn't any more of a conclusive case tying the Saudi monarchy to 9/11 any more than there is tying Iran to it 
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Oct 17, 2018 07:07
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Volkerball posted:Sorry ze pollack, there isn't any more of a conclusive case tying the Saudi monarchy to 9/11 any more than there is tying Iran to it, to the dismay of dipshit partisans like you on either side. Oh man, I was totally giving you the benefit of the doubt in this thread Until now Welcome to my ignore list You're I think the second person on it in 11 loving years (first one is fishmech, to give you a god drat idea of how horrible you are, lol) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 17, 2018 07:20
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Sinteres posted:I don't really buy into 12 dimensional chess theories, and think people acting like impulsive idiots mostly just are impulsive idiots, but if you do, showing everyone that the president of the United States will shamelessly cover for him could be a way for MBS to flex his muscles on the international stage too, and demonstrate that he very much thinks he's a Putin level world leader. Me neither. Like, tsa can harp on about how all this is 'part of the plan' but in a thread that loves to overanalyze every iota of info and twist it towards their argument, I feel like most of us ignore just how petty and impulsive dictatorial-style world leaders really can be. Pretty much the same about Assad, where sure...you could make an argument how there's some cold logic about him murdering tons of his own people, but at the end of the day it still boils down to: 'My own people are a problem and rather than approach this with any kind of subtlety, I choose violence /Cersei Lannister.' The same is true of MBS, whose brutishness is now starting to affect people other than those no one gives a poo poo about (Yemenis).
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Oct 17, 2018 11:39
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Brown Moses posted:I'm hoping if enough assassins are sent after me they'll end up killing each other in a series of hilarious, but bloody, misunderstandings. You've been watching too much Patriot.
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Oct 17, 2018 11:44
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Bob Graham co-chaired the 9/11 Commission and he said under oath that they found Saudi support for the hijackers. The reality is that we will never know for sure the true scope since all of the parts of the report that committee put out pertaining to the Saudis was redacted. I’m not saying that the government of KSA directly supported the attack, but many Royal Family members have funded Wahhabist groups in the past, even after 9/11.
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Oct 17, 2018 14:00
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It was quaint how the Bush administration kept making misleading statements that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 without ever technically saying that. Just letting people infer it. But now it's time to claim that it was Iran behind it. I doubt Trump is going to be as subtle as Dubya. He's far too stupid and senile to clear even the shrub's low bar. It doesn't matter, though, because it will work anyway.
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Oct 17, 2018 14:14
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Yeah real fuckin weird they'd ask someone to stop lobbying for the fuckers that killed his coworker
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Oct 17, 2018 14:24
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Volkerball posted:Sorry ze pollack, there isn't any more of a conclusive case tying the Saudi monarchy to 9/11 any more than there is tying Iran to it, to the dismay of dipshit partisans like you on either side. And you're about as likely to find a post of mine showing "rah-rah Saudi spirit" as you are to find a post of yours that doesn't suck rear end. I’d like to tie the Saudi monarchy to Shinkansen tracks and run over them.
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Oct 17, 2018 14:26
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FlamingLiberal posted:Bob Graham co-chaired the 9/11 Commission and he said under oath that they found Saudi support for the hijackers. The reality is that we will never know for sure the true scope since all of the parts of the report that committee put out pertaining to the Saudis was redacted. The redacted 28 pages were released two years ago, and it's hurting my brain that nobody's mentioned that in this discussion. It wouldn't be accurate to say there was nothing there, but it wasn't the smoking gun a lot of people were expecting. I personally do assign some responsibility to the Saudi government, but it's worth remembering that part of the reason a lot of people in the US initially supported MBS is because he promised to crack down on extremism, so 'how can people support MBS when the Saudis did 9/11 well over a decade before he was in power???' doesn't even make sense. I mean you can still blame people for being dupes since the Saudis have made similar promises in the past, but to the extent that they're dupes it's at least because he was saying some of the things they wanted to hear from a Saudi ruler, not because they're totally brainless about support for whatever the Saudis do. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 14:31
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I had forgotten that the 28 pages were mostly unredacted; but going through what they found again shows that there were indeed some links to Saudi intelligence and that Saudis funded several of the hijackers’ trips to the US including one dry run in 1999 where there was an attempted hijacking. My main point is that they are not innocent.
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Oct 17, 2018 14:49
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FAUXTON posted:Yeah real fuckin weird they'd ask someone to stop lobbying for the fuckers that killed his coworker it is a bit of a weird line in the sand to draw imho, given their whole Yemeni adventure like I'm not arguing that what they did to this guy isn't extraordinarily bad or worth caring about because of the millions of starving civilians, I'm just saying if you only have a problem with someone lobbying for Saudi Arabia after they torture one specific guy to death then you are a loving worthless person with no moral credibility
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Oct 17, 2018 14:57
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XMNN posted:it is a bit of a weird line in the sand to draw imho, given their whole Yemeni adventure Attacking people for doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is also a weird line in the sand to draw. They're doing better than they were doing a week ago, so just be happy instead of deciding the Washington Post is the real problem here.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:01
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Sinteres posted:The redacted 28 pages were released two years ago, and it's hurting my brain that nobody's mentioned that in this discussion. It wouldn't be accurate to say there was nothing there, but it wasn't the smoking gun a lot of people were expecting. I personally do assign some responsibility to the Saudi government, but it's worth remembering that part of the reason a lot of people in the US initially supported MBS is because he promised to crack down on extremism, so 'how can people support MBS when the Saudis did 9/11 well over a decade before he was in power???' doesn't even make sense. I mean you can still blame people for being dupes since the Saudis have made similar promises in the past, but to the extent that they're dupes it's at least because he was saying some of the things they wanted to hear from a Saudi ruler, not because they're totally brainless about support for whatever the Saudis do. Maybe there is a middle ground between "allowing citizens to freely fund terror attacks" and "murdering dissidents"? One of those rare cases where actually the truth is in the middle.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:02
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The Sec State makes a statement https://twitter.com/RobertMaguire_/status/1052521442062032896
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Oct 17, 2018 15:08
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mlmp08 posted:The Sec State makes a statement He's so vile. There's no way I could stand in front of the world and just pass on absolute bullshit like that, and I don't know how people like him live with themselves.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:12
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Sinteres posted:I don't know how people like him live with themselves.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:15
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Sinteres posted:Attacking people for doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is also a weird line in the sand to draw. They're doing better than they were doing a week ago, so just be happy instead of deciding the Washington Post is the real problem here. gently caress that, they are the problem they were happily employing someone shilling for an absolutely abhorrent regime until it murdered someone they actually care about and had a pang of conscience (or possibly just thought it was too damaging to their reputation) much like all the investment companies pulling out of that conference, yes it's a good thing they are (let's face it, probably temporarily) not palling around with the Saudis, but the fact is they did not give a single gently caress about any of the other deaths until they decided to care about this one so it's a little difficult to believe this is a purely moral decision with absolutely no thought whatsoever for the PR implications one way or another at least BAE aren't hypocrites (just monsters) XMNN fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 15:42
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imo it is not hypocritical to say 'these people probably murdered your coworker you have to stop moonlighting for them' after not condemning the general horrific abuses done to other, unrelated people over a period of time it's not very nice, but 'show a shred of solidarity with your literal colleagues' is a perfectly coherent maxim
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Oct 17, 2018 15:49
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Sinteres posted:He's so vile. There's no way I could stand in front of the world and just pass on absolute bullshit like that, and I don't know how people like him live with themselves. He used to be in charge of the the CIA, it's not like he ever had a soul in the first place.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:56
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sorry that post wasn't very well structured, I was referring to e.g. blackrock as hypocrites for not going to that conference because it's temporarily too embarrassing for them whereas BAE is very open about the reality of doing business with abhorrent regimes, i.e. they're horrible people but they have lots of money so who gives a gently caress what they get up to wapo aren't hypocrites, they're just garbage
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Oct 17, 2018 15:56
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FlamingLiberal posted:I had forgotten that the 28 pages were mostly unredacted; but going through what they found again shows that there were indeed some links to Saudi intelligence and that Saudis funded several of the hijackers’ trips to the US including one dry run in 1999 where there was an attempted hijacking. My main point is that they are not innocent. It's a fair point, but when you make a statement like but "also Iran didn't do 9/11" it almost sounds like you are saying Saudi Arabia DID do 9/11, which is bit worse than simply not being innocent. Everybody knows the Saudi government is an abomination. At the same time their government provides logistical and diplomatic support for the US, they look the other way as their citizens continue to provide billions in dollars for our worst enemies from al Qaeda to IS. It's hard to say where sheer incompetence and negligence becomes malice. V. Illych L. posted:imo it is not hypocritical to say 'these people probably murdered your coworker you have to stop moonlighting for them' after not condemning the general horrific abuses done to other, unrelated people over a period of time also I'm pretty sure the WP editorial board has repeatedly condemned the Yemen intervention as pointless and brutal, though probably many posters here would say that they didn't take a hard enough line.
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Oct 17, 2018 16:23
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Man gently caress everyone who's helping to cover this up. https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1052585726376861696 Wtf even is this? https://twitter.com/pdanahar/status/1052590408457441282 Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 17:08
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If Americans are ok with farm animals being butchered to provide them with good tasting meat, I don't see why they should be opposed to people getting slaughtered to maintain the supply of cheap oil. The Saudi monarchy being overthrown and replaced with an Iran-style theocracy would be a disaster for the US. And just like meat production, Americans would rather not know the gory details about how the Saudi monarchy is maintained.
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Oct 17, 2018 17:31
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