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im on the net me boys posted:It's really not that hard folks if you support gun control you're literally letting racist cops harm people of color. That's it. Nothing will change that. Ronald Reagan supported gun control, after all.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:10
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im on the net me boys posted:Neoliberals love to be the only ones who can define "practical" despite poc and the poor having defended themselves against white supremacists and the police with their firearms so are PoC going to be murdered by police because they don't have a gun or because the police think they do also, "defend themselves against the police with their firearms" loving LOL
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Oct 22, 2018 03:27
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Accretionist posted:“I wasn’t prepared for characters such as Lemon Johnson, a former member of the Communist-led Share Croppers Union. In December 1986, I visited Johnson at his home in rural Montgomery County, which I described in my journal as “a tiny, run-down shack with battered wooden walls, a rusted tin roof that had begun to cave in, and a porch stocked with three rickety chairs.” He fed me a huge lunch of collard greens, beans, Wonder Bread, fried chicken, and a slice of cake. We ate outside and talked for a while; when it became unbearably cold, we moved inside. I sat on his bed as he slouched in a wooden chair next to me. A faded picture of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was tacked to the wall above his head. He told me stories about the 1935 cotton pickers’ strike, Stalin’s pledge to send troops to Mobile to help black sharecroppers if things got out of hand, and the night a well-armed group of women set out to avenge their comrades who had been beaten or killed during the strike. When I asked Mr. Johnson how the union succeeded in winning some of their demands, without the slightest hesitation he reached into the drawer of his nightstand and pulled out a dog-eared copy of V. I. Lenin’s What Is to Be Done and a box of shotgun shells, set both firmly on the bed next to me, and said, “Right thar, theory and practice. That’s how we did it. Theory and practice.“ ” Very possibly literally the last time guns ever helped move the needle to the left? Eighty loving years ago? It's about as relevant as arguing we need the guns in case King George comes back.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:33
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Unoriginal Name posted:so are PoC going to be murdered by police because they don't have a gun or because the police think they do naw they gonna get murdered because thats what cops do
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Oct 22, 2018 03:33
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Goast posted:naw they gonna get murdered because thats what cops do well golly gee its almost like he should be pushing for police reform, not whining about gun control efforts
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Oct 22, 2018 04:16
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How about both goddamn
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Oct 22, 2018 04:21
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Hang on let me just compile my list of news clippings discussing the times that POC and members of other vulnerable populations were able to successfully defend themselves from police by shooting them. Don't go anywhere, in just a moment I'm sure I'll have a big ol' list that supports what im on the net me boys is arguing. Aaaaaaaaaany minute now.
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Oct 22, 2018 04:40
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DrNutt posted:Hang on let me just compile my list of news clippings discussing the times that POC and members of other vulnerable populations were able to successfully defend themselves from police by shooting them. So it's not my job to educate you (or any other dipshit in this thread for that matter), so instead I'll recommend this book for you all: https://www.dukeupress.edu/this-nonviolent-stuffll-get-you-killed It's all about how black folks would use firearms to defend themselves and prevent harassment during the civil rights movement. Get this: Chickenshit cops are less inclined to gently caress with you if you're armed! Who would have guessed?
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Oct 22, 2018 04:50
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honestly it's amazing to what degree people are willing to be obtuse because they trust the cops e: also one more thing when I say people use firearms to defend themselves against cops it's not necessarily in their use that is defensive, just having the firearm and being prepared to fight back works as a great deterrent. like come on y'all
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Oct 22, 2018 04:51
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im on the net me boys posted:So it's not my job to educate you (or any other dipshit in this thread for that matter), so instead I'll recommend this book for you all: https://www.dukeupress.edu/this-nonviolent-stuffll-get-you-killed whoa I guess the difference between then and now is that no black people own guns anymore. what could have possibly changed since the civil rights era that this one weird trick didn't catch on? don't worry it's not my job to educate you. 
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Oct 22, 2018 05:16
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DrNutt posted:whoa I guess the difference between then and now is that no black people own guns anymore. what could have possibly changed since the civil rights era that this one weird trick didn't catch on? the increased militarization of the police doesn't like, magically negate the utility of firearms for oppressed people???? Yeah gently caress I guess we gave the cops Military Grade Equipment better turn in my gun and give up. that's genius e: also cops aren't the only enemy there's all the other white supremacists that aren't part of the government
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Oct 22, 2018 05:18
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Yeah those dudes have military grade equipment now too.
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Oct 22, 2018 05:20
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is it cool if I like, take a break from arguing about this? It's probably not great for my blood pressure/well being
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Oct 22, 2018 05:23
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You know what yeah, that's fine. Maybe let off some steam down at the range if you need to. 
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Oct 22, 2018 05:27
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DrNutt posted:You know what yeah, that's fine. Maybe let off some steam down at the range if you need to. e: funny enough I don't actually own a firearm right now because Everyone In The House Has Depression
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Oct 22, 2018 05:29
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im on the net me boys posted:Get this: Chickenshit cops are less inclined to gently caress with you if you're armed! Who would have guessed? i am in no way an expert here, but this seems like it might only be applicable to white males, and even then maybe not. in all the taped incidents ive seen, the deciding factor for officers to unload their clip was their assumption that the person was reaching for a firearm. Cops seem to be waaaay more inclined to shoot a POC if they believe that person is armed.
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Oct 22, 2018 05:40
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Dungeon Ecology posted:i am in no way an expert here, but this seems like it might only be applicable to white males, and even then maybe not. in all the taped incidents ive seen, the deciding factor for officers to unload their clip was their assumption that the person was reaching for a firearm. Cops seem to be waaaay more inclined to shoot a POC if they believe that person is armed. yeah I'm going to go ahead and eat this one because I was thinking in more historical terms with examples from that book I posted about earlier when it was about voter suppression. I think in the modern time it's not as great of a plan with the cops but against white supremacists groups showing up armed seems to be working out going by how antifa protests have been doing. Either way, 1. sorry about getting angry about gun control, then drinking and arguing about gun control and doing nothing else for at least an hour 2. I am steadfast in my belief that gun control is categorically bad because of the effects it has towards minority groups 3. I'm sorry to everyone I called an idiot, moron, etc (don't remember if I did this but probably did or strongly implied it, definitely thought it) 4. I didn't start arguing without like even being willing to consider things from the other point of view because I used to share it, so I haven't really been arguing in good faith
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Oct 22, 2018 05:48
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Have you motherfuckers ever heard of the Black Panthers? Do you know why Reagan supported gun control? Also, guns are a culture war issue, and if you pit yourselves against working class and rural whites in that culture war you are cutting yourself off from people who's interests should or could align with working class and poor people of color. Yes, some of them have bad beliefs and opinions but not everyone who has those is irredeemable. A big part of why Hillary lost is because she wrote those people off instead of talking to them, and they gravitated towards the guy that at least was willing to give them a song and dance about how he is going to make things better for them.
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Oct 22, 2018 05:57
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https://mchap.io/that-time-the-city-of-seattle-accidentally-gave-me-32m-emails-for-40-dollars4997.html
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Oct 22, 2018 06:43
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anthonypants posted:https://mchap.io/that-time-the-city-of-seattle-accidentally-gave-me-32m-emails-for-40-dollars4997.html LOL nice.
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Oct 22, 2018 06:58
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im on the net me boys posted:honestly it's amazing to what degree people are willing to be obtuse because they trust the cops So just because it's clear you haven't done any research at all. The "war on drugs" and the LA riots are largely responsible for the militarization of this countries police forces. Minorities with guns don't deter police, it makes them more likely to use force against minorities, we know this because it's what's happening in this country. The escalation of force training that police are given is the cause of the problem, and you're suggesting minorities should be arming themselves... what a loving scumbag. Not only that but there is no data that shows owning a gun is a deterrent, this lie is constantly spouted by gun lovers with absolutely no data to prove it, in fact the data shows not having a gun is safer for everyone. Countries that have few/no guns have consistently less homicides than countries with guns. But also violent crime rates in other western/equivalent countries are either the same or worse than the US, we just have more homicides because guns loving kill people more than knives or bats or whatever. ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Oct 22, 2018 |
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Oct 22, 2018 08:33
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ElCondemn posted:So just because it's clear you haven't done any research at all. The "war on drugs" and the LA riots are largely responsible for the militarization of this countries police forces. Minorities with guns don't deter police, it makes them more likely to use force against minorities, we know this because it's what's happening in this country. The escalation of force training that police are given is the cause of the problem, and you're suggesting minorities should be arming themselves... what a loving scumbag. I already addressed this four posts up from yours, please gently caress off
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Oct 22, 2018 08:39
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im on the net me boys posted:I already addressed this four posts up from yours, please gently caress off Seems like all you did was talk about how drunk and stupid you are, you didn't address poo poo.
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Oct 22, 2018 08:46
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ElCondemn posted:Seems like all you did was talk about how drunk and stupid you are, you didn't address poo poo. You have great reading comprehension!!!!!! I was responding to someone who had the same critique as you (poc arming themselves doesn't make police violence go away) and yet you didn't seem to read any of that at all
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Oct 22, 2018 08:50
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Cool it, guys. Take a break.
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Oct 22, 2018 13:32
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anthonypants posted:https://mchap.io/that-time-the-city-of-seattle-accidentally-gave-me-32m-emails-for-40-dollars4997.html I've got your FOIA right here! *grabs at crotch suggestively* It's long, large, overly burdensome. And incredibly overpriced. Edit: it also might require a ton of manual hours to work into some sort of useful shape.
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Oct 22, 2018 16:26
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Oscar Wild posted:I've got your FOIA right here! You shouldn't be so critical of yourself just for having a FUPA. With a couple years of hard work you might be able to see your dong without using a mirror again!
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Oct 22, 2018 16:41
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therobit posted:Have you motherfuckers ever heard of the Black Panthers? Do you know why Reagan supported gun control? Your analysis is poo poo. The only sizable "culture" of gun ownership is right wing assholes that would fight against any working class movement. Things like the John Brown Gun Club are not a social movement, and play a very different role than appealing to the working class. Hillary didn't lose because she ignored people on the right, she lost because she tried to grab their vote in exactly the same way you are suggesting. Gun control is not really a good issue to create a left mobilization. It is too deeply entrenched in liberal Democratic Party politics that we need to break away from. While the Democrats might have poo poo ideas, you have to be careful not to end up making the same arguments as the Republicans.
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Oct 22, 2018 16:43
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therobit posted:You shouldn't be so critical of yourself just for having a FUPA. With a couple years of hard work you might be able to see your dong without using a mirror again! It's a government cover-up and it goes all the way to the bottom.
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Oct 22, 2018 17:01
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Oscar Wild posted:It's a government cover-up and it goes all the way to the bottom. how did we start talking about utilikilts?
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Oct 22, 2018 17:15
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DevNull posted:Your analysis is poo poo. The only sizable "culture" of gun ownership is right wing assholes that would fight against any working class movement. Things like the John Brown Gun Club are not a social movement, and play a very different role than appealing to the working class. Hillary didn't lose because she ignored people on the right, she lost because she tried to grab their vote in exactly the same way you are suggesting. You are making the mistake of assuming working class and rural whites are all always going to vote Republican. When you write off an entire demographic as unreachable or "deplorable" you aren't doing yourself any favors. Working class whites used to vote for democrats and if democrats weren't so busy sneering at them and ignoring the plight that they to some degree share with working class minorities then they might be able to capture some of them. Sometimes you have to demonstrate to a blue collar rural guy how he is being hosed by the same people and wants largely the same things out life as an urban black single mother who is trying to make ends meet with her 2 minimum wage jobs. That doesn't mean he is incapable of understanding it entirely. People are raised in an environment with certain beliefs and mores, and may not always have ther right combination of life experiences and education to disabuse them of those beliefs. That doesn't mean it can't happen, just that it hasn't yet. Hillary absolutely wrote those people off in her campaign, and it is one of several factors that caused her to lose the election.
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Oct 22, 2018 17:19
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I would rather attempt to rectify the problems in our society which lead to gun violence than get rid of guns.
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Oct 22, 2018 17:25
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therobit posted:You are making the mistake of assuming working class and rural whites are all always going to vote Republican. When you write off an entire demographic as unreachable or "deplorable" you aren't doing yourself any favors. Working class whites used to vote for democrats and if democrats weren't so busy sneering at them and ignoring the plight that they to some degree share with working class minorities then they might be able to capture some of them. Sometimes you have to demonstrate to a blue collar rural guy how he is being hosed by the same people and wants largely the same things out life as an urban black single mother who is trying to make ends meet with her 2 minimum wage jobs. That doesn't mean he is incapable of understanding it entirely. Your perception of the working class being made up of white dudes is wrong. The idea of a blue collar rural guy having any significance is a myth. Revolutions start in cities for a reason, that is where the bulk of the population lives, and where they will best be able to organize.
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Oct 22, 2018 17:31
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Shifty Nipples posted:I would rather attempt to rectify the problems in our society which lead to gun violence than get rid of guns. Most developed nations have already managed to curb most of their gun violence by getting rid of guns. The idea that the US is a special snowflake that needs to leave guns alone and instead solve gun violence by essentially solving all other societal problems first is laughable and idiotic.
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Oct 22, 2018 17:45
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DevNull posted:Your perception of the working class being made up of white dudes is wrong. The idea of a blue collar rural guy having any significance is a myth. Revolutions start in cities for a reason, that is where the bulk of the population lives, and where they will best be able to organize. I didn't say the entire working class is made of white dudes, I said working class and rural whites are a demographic that Democrats have ceded to Republicans for no good reason, and that they matter in an election.
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Oct 22, 2018 17:46
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therobit posted:I didn't say the entire working class is made of white dudes, I said working class and rural whites are a demographic that Democrats have ceded to Republicans for no good reason, and that they matter in an election. You are talking as if they two groups care about the same poo poo. The working class isn't really demanding to be better armed. I agree that the Democrats have hosed over the working class though, although the Republicans have only given them lip service. I really don't give a poo poo about the Democrats winning back the vote of your "working class" that you see as powerful. I want to working class to organize and take power for themselves.
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Oct 22, 2018 18:00
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im on the net me boys posted:honestly it's amazing to what degree people are willing to be obtuse because they trust the cops https://twitter.com/pdxalerts/status/1054168019704832000?s=19 officers have a history with that person and are not responding officers [...] are not responding
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Oct 22, 2018 18:14
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therobit posted:You are making the mistake of assuming working class and rural whites are all always going to vote Republican. When you write off an entire demographic as unreachable or "deplorable" you aren't doing yourself any favors. Working class whites used to vote for democrats and if democrats weren't so busy sneering at them and ignoring the plight that they to some degree share with working class minorities then they might be able to capture some of them. Sometimes you have to demonstrate to a blue collar rural guy how he is being hosed by the same people and wants largely the same things out life as an urban black single mother who is trying to make ends meet with her 2 minimum wage jobs. That doesn't mean he is incapable of understanding it entirely. The only way the current Democratic party is going to appeal to white working-class voters is through racism. If you want to appeal to white working-class voters in the right way, you have to push the Overton Window considerably to the left of where Democratic leadership is comfortable. This is a problem with the Democratic party being trash.
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Oct 22, 2018 18:21
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On the topic of smaller non-militarized groups using weapons to create power for themselves there are lots of examples. Oka and the Mohawks in Canada stands out in my mind as a good example of a community that armed and protected themselves from the Canadian military and in the end was successful in having their demands met. You can even look at groups like the zapatistas, the taliban and even the cartels for being non-government groups that armed up and organized and seized various amounts of power through the use of violence. There are examples all over the world and just because some groups used the power being armed and organized for bad, violence can also be used for good things. I think thats something really important that was lost in US activism somewhere between the civil rights/anti-war movement and the new liberal non-violence dogma. Another good book on how nonviolence is essentially a myth is called Nonviolence Ain't What It Used To Be. I recommend it on these forums a lot sorry if I have here before. Also read about the Oka Crisis if you haven't. The Oka got into a firefight with the Canadian military and they won. The golf course they were protesting was canceled. It has to be the single most inspiring protest of the last 30 or so years. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Oct 22, 2018 |
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Oct 22, 2018 19:00
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Oscar Wild posted:https://twitter.com/pdxalerts/status/1054168019704832000?s=19 In a functioning bureaucracy shouldnt the number for his case worker be attached to his file? Like with a sticky note? poo poo ain't that hard.
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Oct 22, 2018 19:58
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