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Javid posted:The NRA is a trash fire but they actual go to the mat for the interests of
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Oct 26, 2018 00:55
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Blaming the NRA on the Russians seems silly to me unless you think the Russian long game has been going since more than 25 years ago.
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Oct 26, 2018 00:59
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Accretionist posted:Yeah, their members happen to line up with The Money's interests.
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Oct 26, 2018 01:01
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Frightening Knight posted:Blaming the NRA on the Russians seems silly to me unless you think the Russian long game has been going since more than 25 years ago. 
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Oct 26, 2018 01:05
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Frightening Knight posted:Blaming the NRA on the Russians seems silly to me unless you think the Russian long game has been going since more than 25 years ago. The NRA has long been a problem but they are clearly benefiting from loads of dark money now. I don't doubt that they are working for interests beyond greedy weapon manufacturers based on the output of NRAtv alone.
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Oct 26, 2018 01:32
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Frightening Knight posted:Blaming the NRA on the Russians seems silly to me unless you think the Russian long game has been going since more than 25 years ago. i think it was more a reference to the (now arrested) russian agents using the NRA as a pipeline
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Oct 26, 2018 02:05
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DrNutt posted:The NRA has long been a problem but they are clearly benefiting from loads of dark money now. I don't doubt that they are working for interests beyond greedy weapon manufacturers based on the output of NRAtv alone. TheDeadlyShoe posted:i think it was more a reference to the (now arrested) russian agents using the NRA as a pipeline I mean, yes, undoubtedly the NRA has taken some quantity of money from Russian oligarchs, but to my knowledge it's a relatively small amount compared to their overwhelming backing from arms manufacturers. They're effectively industry lobbyists that have successfully masqueraded as consumer lobbyists and convinced the media to treat them like they're the latter.
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Oct 26, 2018 02:07
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My understanding was that the NRA was struggling for funding these days?
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Oct 26, 2018 02:19
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seiferguy posted:My understanding was that the NRA was struggling for funding these days? Surely their wine club is making them enough money to stay afloat.
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Oct 26, 2018 02:25
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Frightening Knight posted:Blaming the NRA on the Russians seems silly to me unless you think the Russian long game has been going since more than 25 years ago. Explain why all their funding just dried up.
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Oct 26, 2018 02:43
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poo poo POST MALONE posted:Explain why all their funding just dried up. I admittedly can't, although I would postulate the reasonable possibility that it is because they have become a very public white nationalist organization and the gun lobby already effectively controls the US government's regulatory policy for firearms so they are no longer as useful to them.
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Oct 26, 2018 02:48
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Javid posted:The NRA is a trash fire but they actual go to the mat for the interests of their members which is, sadly, high praise these days. Tell that to Philando Castile.
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Oct 26, 2018 03:23
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Frightening Knight posted:I mean, yes, undoubtedly the NRA has taken some quantity of money from Russian oligarchs, but to my knowledge it's a relatively small amount compared to their overwhelming backing from arms manufacturers. They're effectively industry lobbyists that have successfully masqueraded as consumer lobbyists and convinced the media to treat them like they're the latter. Frightening Knight posted:I admittedly can't, although I would postulate the reasonable possibility that it is because they have become a very public white nationalist organization and the gun lobby already effectively controls the US government's regulatory policy for firearms so they are no longer as useful to them. I mean you can dismiss me as a conspiracy theorist but the last couple years have essentially been a bunch of these things just coincidentally happening at the same time Russia's making in roads and holding hands with them and shouting "we're doing a conspiracy!"
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Oct 26, 2018 03:38
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DrNutt posted:I mean you can dismiss me as a conspiracy theorist but the last couple years have essentially been a bunch of these things just coincidentally happening at the same time Russia's making in roads and holding hands with them and shouting "we're doing a conspiracy!" Whatever the case may be, whether or not the NRA is co-opted by the Russians and if so to what degree is immaterial to the ballot initiative in question.
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Oct 26, 2018 03:44
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Frightening Knight posted:Whatever the case may be, whether or not the NRA is co-opted by the Russians and if so to what degree is immaterial to the ballot initiative in question. That is true. I voted in favor of it and the one to mandate police de-escalation training. I would like to vote for even more progressive measures if given the opportunity.
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Oct 26, 2018 04:25
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Javid posted:The NRA is a trash fire but they actual go to the mat for the interests of their members which is, sadly, high praise these days. The NRA is a Christian organization first, and a gun rights organization second. On the subject of guns, they generally suck badly but they are one hell of a lobbying organization. That said, I bet a major chunk of their lobbying is against abortion rather than for 2A.
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Oct 26, 2018 05:54
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I have this stamp that lets me back in this thread, if a mod wants to uv light it verify its real i'll understand. Javid posted:
Tough choices itt. Asking for a friend do you think the proud boys and such BBQ at their rallys? Its been a while since my friend has had a good BBQ and dickys is super far. Im glad to see that the cops and even the washington post understand that just classifying every gun that operates by blowback an assault weapon is stupid. Someone REALLY wants to bring back the mosin hunting challenge. Is there a SA PNW hunting group because I need a reason to tacticool a bolt action.
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Oct 26, 2018 08:58
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I turned in my ballot to raise taxes, eat guns and deregulate sodas.
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Oct 26, 2018 20:43
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RuanGacho posted:I turned in my ballot to raise taxes, eat guns and deregulate sodas. This was a pretty pro av/post combo.
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Oct 26, 2018 20:52
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lmao what a pantywaist https://twitter.com/dirquez/status/1055939227748261889 e: https://twitter.com/tedwheeler/status/1055948917852917760 anthonypants fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 26, 2018 22:52
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DrNutt posted:Conflating tools which have uses other than murder with instruments specifically designed to kill people should be an autoban, imo. It's really loving annoying to have that fallacious comparison be brought up by idiots every time gun control is brought up.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:45
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"Maybe we should ban spoons because they make people fat!"  is something I always see touted unironically.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:57
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Guns are cool and good. Thankfully after this passes the 2AF and GAO will tear it apart in court leading to an eventually SCOTUS ruling. Perhaps instead of trying to pass an ineffective measure propose a change which would provide a benefit to gun owners in exchange for regulation which reduces firearm deaths. A few easy examples: 1. Close the gun show loop hole, by opening the NICS check process to all Americans, not just FFLs. This would mean all gun sales go through a federal background check, while allowing all Americans to sell each other guns freely. 2.Move semiautomatic rifles to the NFA AoW list, but modernize the NFA to enable all NFA applications to be processed in a timely manner I.E. 2-4 weeks. This would move the scary evil AR-15 to ornerous system of regulation, while modernizing that agency (BATFE) and it's processes to respond in a timely manner for things like short barrel rifles and suppressor tax stamp requests. 3 Ban bump stocks and other similar devices ( how many of you know about binary triggers, pew pew), but reopen the NFA for new automatic weapons to be registered. Automatic weapons are legally defined as 1 trigger pull fires multiple bullets. Overall rate of fire is not addressed in the law hence why these devices don't make a semi-automatoc weapon into an automatic one. Since overall rate of fire seems to be a concern this would do so while opening up the ability for collectors and hobbiests to have new automatic weapons, I'm sure you are all aware that legally owned automatic weapons are never used in crimes because the kind of person who goes to the effort to acquire one aren't violent criminals. 4 Add any domestic violence related investigation/arrest/charges to the disqualifiers for the purchase of a hand gun (with avenue for appeal of course). In exchange pass national conceal carry reciprocity with minimum federal standards for training etc. Domestic violence is the #1 predictor for using a gun to murder someone. So if we want to reduce the harm caused by guns we need to take this into account. Likewise conceal carry owners are much less likely to commit crimes and thier rights should be expanded. Each of these would reduce harm and be the type of political trade that could get support from gun owners. Or keep trying to take our rights away while giving bus nothing in return, and hence giving us every reason to oppose the change. KingFisher fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 14:22
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KingFisher posted:Or keep trying to take our rights away while giving bus nothing in return, and hence giving us every reason to oppose the change. And the right for schoolchildren to live without getting shot up? You don’t seem to give a poo poo about that.
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Oct 28, 2018 15:31
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Solkanar512 posted:And the right for schoolchildren to live without getting shot up? You don’t seem to give a poo poo about that. A small price to pay for
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Oct 28, 2018 15:37
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KingFisher posted:in exchange for regulation which reduces firearm deaths. oh yeah, i bet that's coming down the pipeline real soon. all those responsible gun owners just champing at the bit for better & safer gun laws.
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Oct 28, 2018 15:41
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Mah rites Bathe this gun most holy of instruments in the blood of innocents. Go forth, and kill
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Oct 28, 2018 15:45
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Solkanar512 posted:And the right for schoolchildren to live without getting shot up? You don’t seem to give a poo poo about that. Except for, I dunno, the entire rest of that post that you elected not to quote, that attempts to address that exact issue
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Oct 28, 2018 18:33
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In WA there is no gunshow loophole so gently caress off with pretending you know what you're talking about.
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Oct 28, 2018 19:35
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Solkanar512 posted:And the right for schoolchildren to live without getting shot up? You don’t seem to give a poo poo about that. I wonder if one could push back on the second with the 9th. Pretty sure one could argue one has an unenumerated right to not have one's kids threatened by armed idiots in public sources.
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Oct 28, 2018 19:38
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Also state level dems were out canvassing our here, they missed us but left some flyers.
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Oct 28, 2018 19:40
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KingFisher posted:4 Add any domestic violence related investigation/arrest/charges to the disqualifiers for the purchase of a hand gun (with avenue for appeal of course). This should be the national discussion on gun violence right now. It would have the added benefit of disqualifying most cops from using a gun.
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Oct 28, 2018 21:59
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I'd go with the arrest/actual filing of charges. Just the presence of an investigation isn't enough.
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Oct 28, 2018 22:04
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George posted:This should be the national discussion on gun violence right now. It would have the added benefit of disqualifying most cops from using a gun. I agree, and thank you for engaging with the substance of my post. How do you feel about the proposed policy trade?
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Oct 28, 2018 22:12
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so are you gonna address that the gunshow loophole isn't a thing in washington and explain why we should take anything you say seriously when you cant get even the basic facts down
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Oct 28, 2018 22:32
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Goast posted:so are you gonna address that the gunshow loophole isn't a thing in washington and explain why we should take anything you say seriously when you cant get even the basic facts down Sure, reread my post it says "All Americans" (not just Washingtonians) so clearly I was providing examples of proposed federal policies which would be politically effective. Also if you had a modicum of knowledge on this topic you would understand most of my other proposals would require a federal law as well. Turns out states are a thing and the most effective gun laws are federal ones keeps all those Chicago straw gun buyers from driving to Indiana to buy a gun. So rather than proposing ineffective and to be ruled unconstitutional state laws, perhaps you should be building consensus on the left to propose a compromise that is politically viable. Also feel free to address the substantive policy and political goals of my post rather than your lack of reading comprehension. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 28, 2018 22:59
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KingFisher posted:I agree, and thank you for engaging with the substance of my post. How do you feel about the proposed policy trade? I'm not sure what you're on about with concealed carriers being the good ones here, except that maybe because they had to get a permit they're already somewhat regulated. I don't really understand what's so great about owning a gun in 2018, especially when cops and other military organizations are gonna laugh that poo poo off when the time comes, but I'm also mad about the Democrats suddenly holding a sit-in to push legislation that'll only stop brown people from having guns. This poo poo is dicey as gently caress and we've got some dogmatic posters treating guns as a sacrament and everyone else is so desperate for literally anything to be done that we're going to settle for the usual racist half-measures. The truth isn't "in the middle", though: it's clearly on the side of regulation.
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Oct 28, 2018 23:05
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The thing about owning a gun is: if the cops decide to take all our guns, or whatever, having guns isn't going to stop them because they can project so much more force than any one person can. Anyone stockpiling guns for that reason is a nut. But, if communities that regularly get harassed by the cops are armed, then the police have to think a bit more about picking a fight during their everyday work and patrols and poo poo. If cops were getting shot when they decide to murder people on the street, there'd be less cops murdering people on the street.
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Oct 28, 2018 23:23
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RuanGacho posted:In WA there is no gunshow loophole so gently caress off with pretending you know what you're talking about. The WA Arms Collectors group is a pretty cool group of people. I actually learned a lot of cool stuff about random guns from people I had no intention of buying anything from.
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Oct 28, 2018 23:28
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hello pac nw thread, if you'd like to post about gun laws in general we do have a gunchat thread.
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Oct 28, 2018 23:35
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