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I wasn’t alive in the 80s, but I’m sure someone was looking at the boxy Buick Century and wondering where it all went wrong from 60s design ethos. Arguing about the “soul” of automotive design misses the point that unless you’re driving some high performance vehicle, the business case is always to follow the trend and keep up with regulations. I actually respect Toyota for doing something polarizing with their new Prius design for this reason, it’s actually fairly daring on such a high production car.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:26
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fknlo posted:Nah, it's ugly as gently caress and I give every single one I see a look of disgust in hopes that the owner might peel their eyes off their phone and see me. x6 sales are like 15 or 20% of x5 sales, lmao it sucks so bad.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:53
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Grakkus posted:I'm not saying it would be rolled back to the 60s "what are seatbelts" levels, but not every car would have to be a giant, slit-windowed, expensive blob-tank. Which is not to say that they couldn't continue to exist for those who prioritise safety, of course. Not every current vehicle is like that, even rather workaday cars like a VW Golf. The hugeness and tanklike nature of present cars have to do more with consumer preference than safety regulations, as far as I can tell.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:23
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Balliver Shagnasty posted:Fitting song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FM6b1cLC84 I feel like the Legend is the ultimate form of this style 
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Oct 30, 2018 17:44
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I don't actually care about the article, but this opening paragraph made me chuckle.quote:As ideas go, this one might not make automotive history, but it's the kind of thing we think about between rounds of office Plinko. Nissan could have executed the most accurate and brilliant car-branding plot in history when it named its sedans. Consider this: After the introduction of its big car, the Maxima, in 1981, a natural next step would have been to call its new small sedan for 1982 the Minima. Without consulting us, Nissan named it the Sentra. Ten years later, when the company trotted out its revised mid-size sedan, it could have completed the trifecta by calling it the Media. Minima, Media, and Maxima are names so easy to remember that even Motor Trend could do it.
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Oct 30, 2018 18:45
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opengl128 posted:I feel like the Legend is the ultimate form of this style here it is from another angle  The joke is car design committees are incredibly cowardly idiots and will only ever copy other design committees. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 18:54
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Almost bought a cheap nice 1988 Legend with the V6, but had to pass since my head hit the liner. 
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Oct 30, 2018 19:12
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fknlo posted:Nah, it's ugly as gently caress and I give every single one I see a look of disgust in hopes that the owner might peel their eyes off their phone and see me. Years ago I had a chance to meet Chris Bangle. He was giving a seminar on design and marketting. Afterwards I asked him what he personally thought about the X6. He looked slightly embarrassed then he looked up, smiled and said 'it's a monster.'
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Oct 30, 2018 23:38
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Rigged Death Trap posted:here it is from another angle Wow it's like all the details are totally different on two entirely different cars. 1/10. If you're gonna push that story do it right: 
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Oct 31, 2018 00:57
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My google-fu is weak and I’m trying to figure out specs of the Audi A3 Quattro sedan. I’m seeing anywhere from 180hp to 220hp, and 200-260ft/lb. Did they use different engines from 2015-2018 and are they different for awd vs. fwd? Is it all the same motor with just different states of tune? Is it the GTI motor?
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Oct 31, 2018 01:24
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Is there a list of car "classes" and which vehicles are in which class? I never know what actually is supposed to be competing against what.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:28
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ilkhan posted:Is there a list of car "classes" and which vehicles are in which class? I never know what actually is supposed to be competing against what. at the bottom left, search by class, it's a good rough sort. Just ignore subcompacts like the Continental GT and compacts like the rolls royce dawn.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:51
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Olympic Mathlete posted:Safety standards affect a lot of things on modern cars, from bumper heights, bumper attack angles, headlight placement, bonnet angles and sizes, wingmirror profiles, windscreen angles... The list is truly loving nuts. This is why most cars are similarly shaped and the only real variation you get is the amount of creases your body panels have and how much plastic you have covering fake vents. The laws mostly don't change based on sales volume. High-volume cars have boring design because they have to appeal to the largest group of people. Lamborghini doesn't have bumpers because they don't care about reducing repair costs
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Oct 31, 2018 02:22
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Also the pedestrian safety standards are specifically to reduce head injuries by mandating space between the engine and hood. Someone getting hit in the shins and hitting their head on the windshield is actually the ideal scenario those laws want. Unfortunately with modern cars with giant front ends, this has become being hit in the pelvis and then run over which is actually worse
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Oct 31, 2018 02:27
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Most cars are similarly shaped because that's what people like, or at least that's what executives think people like. Designers want their cars to be giant rolling slabs with slit windows. Look at their sketches: that's what their fantasy cars look like. And most car buyers seem to agree with them.
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Oct 31, 2018 02:30
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:Most cars are similarly shaped because that's what people like, or at least that's what executives think people like. The engineers also want shapes that are easy to manufacture and assemble. Preferably so multiple models can be run on the same production line, maintaining similar welding and bolting patterns to minimize disruption.
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Oct 31, 2018 02:33
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beancountera ruin everything
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Oct 31, 2018 02:40
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Deteriorata posted:The engineers also want shapes that are easy to manufacture and assemble. Preferably so multiple models can be run on the same production line, maintaining similar welding and bolting patterns to minimize disruption. Still doesn't excuse the fantasy concept cars and sketches that often have lots of very difficult to manufacture shapes while still also being giant slabs with tiny windows. People think tiny windows and giant wheels look modern and cool. That's what I think. Hell, people used to intentionally modify their cars to have smaller windows and giant wheels.
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Oct 31, 2018 02:47
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shareholders ruin everything
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Oct 31, 2018 02:47
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Modus Man posted:My google-fu is weak and I’m trying to figure out specs of the Audi A3 Quattro sedan. I’m seeing anywhere from 180hp to 220hp, and 200-260ft/lb. Did they use different engines from 2015-2018 and are they different for awd vs. fwd? Is it all the same motor with just different states of tune? Is it the GTI motor? FWD gets the 180hp + 7 speed dual clutch auto. Quattro gets 220hp + 6 speed dual clutch auto. I'm not 100% confident, but it should be the same engine in the GTI except with a different tune. edit: some more googling says the base is the same but parts are swapped out to make it 1.8L or 2.0L...? kimcicle fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 04:08
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:Most cars are similarly shaped because that's what people like, or at least that's what executives think people like. I've managed to find the 'design bible' that's being pushed for use on an industry-led car design course that my friends have recently graduated from. It basically distills down all the current basic requirements for designing a car for production these days and it's one hell of a read... (this edition is from 2009 so things will have changed) https://catedrad3.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/1933492376_hpoint1.pdf Just a particular choice bit: quote:Looking around at vehicles that are on the road today you'll see a lot of uniformity, which is due mainly to legislation. As you work through this book you'll notice that various regulations are mentioned when they are significant to the design. Features like bumpers, lights and pillars are strictly controlled, so if you're designing a concept that looks dramatically different in these areas, check the appropriate chapter for legislation. The book is full of standards and requirements for a production car (but nowhere near all of them!), from bonnet leading edge height, to bumper and bumper bar height requirements which affect passenger protection to headlight and rear light height/width/positioning requirements and angles at which they must be able to be seen. It's not incredibly limiting but it certainly makes things more boring and these are just the essential bits, the legislation is nuts in places and none of this has anything to do with pedestrian safety so load that lot on top and you can see why cars now are generally similarly shaped boxes with differing amounts of body creases. Olympic Mathlete fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 12:43
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:Lamborghini doesn't have bumpers because they don't care about reducing repair costs While we're talking about repair costs, all these loving body creases can go eat a dick too. Oops, what would be a simple dent to PDR is now unfixable without significant work because it happened to involve one of our six hundred useless body creases!
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Oct 31, 2018 13:51
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Grakkus posted:I'm not sure what you mean? I'm not implying that average European driving tests are up to the standard I would have them in my utopian alternate reality, in a lot of countries they are pretty lovely. But there is a correlation between thoroughness of driving tests and frequency of crashes. If the quality of the average driver was high enough, there wouldn't be a need for as overwhelming safety regulations as there are now. Cars are still one of the leading causes of death and serious injuries for 20-40 year olds (also the planet) so imo it's reasonable to have both. Some people can easily pass a stringent test but won't be so responsible when they aren't being watched. You might accept the risk of driving a more dangerous car, but the people around you might not, and they are also at risk if you ( or someone less responsible) gently caress up. distortion park fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 23:17
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https://twitter.com/TTAC/status/1058040757767073793 400,000 Subaru engines need their valve springs replaced. That's bad.
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Nov 1, 2018 19:05
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FBS posted:https://twitter.com/TTAC/status/1058040757767073793 lmao holy gently caress
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Nov 1, 2018 19:39
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Grakkus posted:I'm not saying it would be rolled back to the 60s "what are seatbelts" levels, but not every car would have to be a giant, slit-windowed, expensive blob-tank. Which is not to say that they couldn't continue to exist for those who prioritise safety, of course. you're more than welcome to drive a ragingly less safe car today it just can't be brand new
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Nov 1, 2018 19:40
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FBS posted:https://twitter.com/TTAC/status/1058040757767073793 Cost reduction engineering coming back to bite hard That's a whole lot of labor to replace some overall very cheap parts
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Nov 1, 2018 19:41
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love to be a subaru tech right about now
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Nov 1, 2018 21:24
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FBS posted:https://twitter.com/TTAC/status/1058040757767073793 It's not that bad Spark plugs are a 7 hour engine out job, just change the valve springs while you're in there. Also, at least they're copping to it and not just letting them rot into the ground at 100k like mazda And another thing, watch Subaru/Toyota Canada pretend it's not a real issue and just let owners eat it.
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Nov 1, 2018 21:26
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Insert comment about Consumer Reports, Toyota, Subaru, reliability, etc
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Nov 1, 2018 21:39
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I'm just glad I have a 2015 and don't have to worry about it. I think my parents' Crosstrek is in the affected list though.
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Nov 1, 2018 21:49
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Lol add that to the list of Subaru issues, the fanbois will keep buying them tho.
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Nov 1, 2018 21:49
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It's still amazing to me that in the minds of non-car-guy common folk Subaru is mentioned in the same breath as Honda and Toyota (non-86 models) as bullet-proof cars. And the used market for them is bananas as well. Subarus are the fiddly European cars of Japan, but without the pretense of luxury.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:33
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Subaru interiors feel cheap as hell too like their 40k vehicles feel just as bad inside as their 25k vehicles.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:41
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To be fair, as far as I know this is the very first issue to hit the BRZ/GT86. They've been pretty much drama free and bulletproof otherwise.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:02
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bull3964 posted:They've been pretty much drama free Yeah the lack of power has been a real complaint 
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Nov 1, 2018 23:09
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Wasn't there an issue with the original ones? I can't remember what it was off the top of my head but the fuel pump or something making a lot of noise?
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Nov 1, 2018 23:16
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bull3964 posted:To be fair, as far as I know this is the very first issue to hit the BRZ/GT86. They've been pretty much drama free and bulletproof otherwise. They went through several iterations of high pressure fuel pumps before finding one that didn't sound like a drat cricket orgy in one of every six cars Basically no reliability issues. Autotrans also occasionally generated excessive vibration upon lockup below a certain engine speed. HVAC has a bit higher tendency to clog its drain, resulting in what can only honesty be referred to as 'the swampass effect' if you left it on recirc forever.
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Nov 2, 2018 00:20
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What are all of these other Subaru reliability issues people are talking about? They are top 5 in the consumer reports reliability list. That's far above any domestic brand, including Ford, which people around here seem to love for some reason. I honestly don't get the Subaru hate and haven't really heard of any significant reliability issues outside of this thread.
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Nov 2, 2018 00:33
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Saddamnit posted:What are all of these other Subaru reliability issues people are talking about? They are top 5 in the consumer reports reliability list. That's far above any domestic brand, including Ford, which people around here seem to love for some reason. I honestly don't get the Subaru hate and haven't really heard of any significant reliability issues outside of this thread. They had/have a major head gasket issue with some of their engines. Possibly another big issue ( I want to say piston ring issues), but I’m not a Subaru guy and I’m not sure. Im sure someone from AI will post all the details
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Nov 2, 2018 00:42
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