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Ghost Leviathan posted:Like, her whole deal in 2016 was that she had everything set in place for her dream run (albeit 8 years later than she'd have liked), had every possible institutional advantage, and attempted to go for the perfect run specifically running up the tally so she could claim the popular vote... and turned out to fail absolutely miserably against a candidate she should have been able to making a laughing stock of. Her political instincts and those of her staff could not have been more off base... well, we've all been over this. The point is that absolutely nothing we know about Hillary would suggest the ability for the introspection required to not repeat her mistakes, especially since running in the first place was one. She's a nepotism case taken way too far. As a marketing quant (among other things) I watched the GOP Primary Debates and wondered if the Clinton Campaign was even paying attention. I was seriously worried, rightfully so, that they missed the point ... Trump is an idiot-savant when it comes to messaging. He rolled over the GOP field in a way that I hadn't seen in many decades. The messaging by the Clinton Camp was just so drat crappy. "I'm with her?" Seriously? It was like watching a slow-motion train wreck.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:08
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Hilldawg is one of those richies who thinks that because she's rich it means she's smart and capable. They're all over the place and watching them fall on their face is normally one of my greatest pleasures...too bad their money insulates them from real consequence. With Hillary, her losing put a lot of vulnerable people in really bad positions so my usual feelings of schadenfreude weren't there.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:18
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Frightening Knight posted:I don't disagree per se, but when I first watched the video I didn't think she was being sarcastic at all. Which perhaps proves your point. That's exactly it - even when she's trying to be good, she's super talented at creating soundbites that are the exact opposite of good. For example, remember that time when she said in a campaign speech that many Trump voters were motivated by legitimate economic anxiety and that liberals should resist the urge to write them all off as irredeemable racist scum? You probably do...but you likely remember it for "basket of deplorables", rather than the vaguely economic message she completely fumbled that day.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:44
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I just think it's funny that Hillary getting caught trying some performative wokeness is like the least corporate thing about her. Mitt Romney was right.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:49
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The whole Hillary campaign was just tragicomic from top to bottom. But the dumbest thing wasn't actually the campaign, it was the Hillfolk who shilled for her. I still remember those motherfuckers being all "you gotta vote for Hillary because she is the lesser evil" only to start berating people for showing insufficient enthusiasm for Dear Abuela like five minutes later and were completely unable to comprehend why this was real dumb.
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Oct 30, 2018 18:17
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I remember the night that Hillary won the Dem CA primary, I watched their reaction - which was basically "gently caress you, worthless lefties, and gently caress your socialist grandpa" and thought "oh man I really genuinely hate these people" but mostly got over it, then when Hillary nominated Tim Kaine and the convention was utterly racuous and they had that clip of some boomer grandma berating a young woman for being "stupid and selfish" for not lining up to destroy their own future by voting for Hillary I thought "holy poo poo they could actually lose this, this is unreal, they clearly hate the left" One of the funniest things to me is that my IRL best friend is a mostly status quo centrist politically and two months before the election I kept telling him "I really think that Hillary could lose this" and then right before the election I said "she's going to lose" and of course he laughed at me right until she cratered, now literally every argument I just club him with "I was right, you have terrible political instinct" all the time and it still works. I basically have until 2020 to win every political argument with him and it's great. Too bad the cost was HELLWORLD
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Oct 30, 2018 18:26
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I remember getting a real bad feeling when I saw hillshills on Facebook saying that it doesn't matter whether the primary is rigged or not, because it should be rigged against someone who hasn't paid their dues and worked their way up through the Democratic party ranks like she has.
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Oct 30, 2018 18:37
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It was fun watching them flip from "fine, we don't need your worthless lefty votes" to "you loving lefties and your purity tests costs us the election!" It's also fun watching them flip out because approximately 5-10 posters have said that they're not going to vote and therefore the Blue Wave is lost.
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Oct 30, 2018 18:43
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When the only thing you can say in favor of your candidate is that they have been in office for X years or did their dues working up through the system you know that candidate is bad. Neither of those things are inherently bad (although no one gives a poo poo about a job resume other than dumb political wonks) but if that's the first things you think about a politician it means they have nothing else going for them.WampaLord posted:It was fun watching them flip from "fine, we don't need your worthless lefty votes" to "you loving lefties and your purity tests costs us the election!" People not getting that when others say we need to figure out why these non voters aren't voting it's not to declare nothing matters and everyone should stay home. It's to get them to vote based on appealing to their interests since screaming at them that they are the worst idiots hasn't been working for the last two decades somehow. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 18:45
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I liked the 404 screen on the HRC website, where it was a gif of her unsuccessfully swiping a Metrocard through a turnstile. I hope that web designer is still getting work.
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Oct 30, 2018 18:45
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Radish posted:People not getting that when others say we need to figure out why these non voters aren't voting it's not to declare nothing matters and everyone should stay home. It's to get them to vote based on appealing to their interests since screaming at them that they are the worst idiots hasn't been working for the last two decades somehow. The same crowd who shouts "oh boy, another  poster" will happily turn around and explain to you why exactly we can't accomplish anything because the status quo can't be changed.gently caress them all, they're the worst kind of cowards.
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Oct 30, 2018 18:49
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Radish posted:When the only thing you can say in favor of your candidate is that they have been in office for X years or did their dues working up through the system you know that candidate is bad. Neither of those things are inherently bad (although no one gives a poo poo about a job resume other than dumb political wonks) ey are the first things you think about a politician it means they have nothing else going for them. I've talked to my friends about this and I always take the angle that being "credentialed" as a politician is not a thing past a certain point. There's no job that prepares you for being President. The only thing that matters is the moral vision, the ability to articulate it, and the ability to delegate it.
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Oct 30, 2018 18:52
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I've talked to my friends about this and I always take the angle that being "credentialed" as a politician is not a thing past a certain point. There's no job that prepares you for being President. The only thing that matters is the moral vision, the ability to articulate it, and the ability to delegate it. Yeah part of politics is having the allies to help you but Trump is showing that the DC establishment is a bunch of feckless cowards and if you just kick down the door you can impose a lot of your will regardless of how much political capital you haven't built up. I think your summation of what is effective is pretty much exactly.
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Oct 30, 2018 18:57
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WampaLord posted:It was fun watching them flip from "fine, we don't need your worthless lefty votes" to "you loving lefties and your purity tests costs us the election!" FACT: More Clinton supporters flipped to McCain in 2008 than Sanders supporters flipped to Trump in 2016.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:00
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VideoGameVet posted:FACT: More Clinton supporters flipped to McCain in 2008 than Sanders supporters flipped to Trump in 2016. Honestly I think this just says more about McCain/Trump than it does supporters of either Clinton or Bernie.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:17
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Radish posted:Yeah part of politics is having the allies to help you but Trump is showing that the DC establishment is a bunch of feckless cowards and if you just kick down the door you can impose a lot of your will regardless of how much political capital you haven't built up. I think your summation of what is effective is pretty much exactly. I always think about how FDR created these huge federal agencies and basically put them under bumpkins who had no experience and they all did a good job managing them. Honestly the belief that something will work, the will to keep trying to make it work and the time to iterate on it is all it takes, both in the public and private sector.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:19
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Another thing that bugs me about people crying about non voters is they always trot out "look we have to defeat the GOP NOW, we can fix the Democrats later." People already DID that in 2008 giving the Democrats the power to do almost anything and instead they squandered their time trying to pass cuts to entitlements, deport undocumented immigrants, help out the financial industry, and all around try to kiss rear end to Republicans. Even the ACA was an overcomplicated boondoggle assuming Republicans would act in good faith once it was passed and left out stuff Obama specifically campaigned on. There's a real reason people are disillusioned and if your answer is to yell at the "kids" because they are lazy and thoughtless maybe you are a lot more like the Boomer stereotype than you think.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:22
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HootTheOwl posted:Honestly I think this just says more about McCain/Trump than it does supporters of either Clinton or Bernie. Nah. The sort of person voting for Sanders in 2020 would probably have almost the exact same likelihood of switching to Trump as they would another "mainstream" Republican like McCain. Maybe even a greater one if you consider the whole "anti-establishment" angle. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense that the sort of person to choose Clinton over Obama in 2008 would find McCain (or most other Republicans) pretty palatable. The strongest evidence supporting this is that Sanders->Trump switches were roughly as common as the typical conversion rate for losing primary candidate supporters, while the rate for Clinton supporters in 2008 was much higher.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:34
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Obligatory reminder that the most fanatical Hillshills from 2008 managed to turn themselves into rabid Trump supporters in 2016.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:51
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Cerebral Bore posted:Obligatory reminder that the most fanatical Hillshills from 2008 managed to turn themselves into rabid Trump supporters in 2016. #resistence is in the process of figuring out that maybe they really do hate leftists more than fascists so this will absolutely repeat itself. Hillary really attracts weirdos for whatever reason.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:55
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VideoGameVet posted:As a marketing quant (among other things) I watched the GOP Primary Debates and wondered if the Clinton Campaign was even paying attention. I was seriously worried, rightfully so, that they missed the point ... Trump is an idiot-savant when it comes to messaging. He rolled over the GOP field in a way that I hadn't seen in many decades. I thought Trump was a buffoon who would destroy the Republicans at first, but in hindsight gained after accepting Hellworld I can see that he was always a very dangerous threat. The man is a consummate con-man and carnival barker. His insane ramblings have a hypnotic cadence to them, and he has, as you said, idiot-savant skills at messaging. He was on pro-wrestling for gently caress's sake. He was always going to appeal to the masses, and the elite bent the knee because they can see which way the wind is blowing and adapt so long as they keep getting massive tax cuts and subsidies. I didn't take Trump seriously because I'm an idiot who knows nothing. Presumably the consultants who get paid millions of dollars to know things should have been able to see this coming, or why else would they deserve to be paid millions of dollars? How could anyone with so much experience and so much backing gently caress up as badly as HRC? And, more importantly, is it going to happen twice despite having four years to observe reality?* *yes Nix Panicus fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 20:19
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https://twitter.com/foxnews/status/1057043883085959169?s=21 https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1057115266499440640?s=21
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Oct 30, 2018 20:35
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i hope she loses.
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Oct 30, 2018 20:38
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HootTheOwl posted:Honestly I think this just says more about McCain/Trump than it does supporters of either Clinton or Bernie. Nah; the Dems had rightfully demonized McCain/Palin in 2008 before McCain became their bff under Trump.
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Oct 30, 2018 20:41
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WampaLord posted:It was fun watching them flip from "fine, we don't need your worthless lefty votes" to "you loving lefties and your purity tests costs us the election!" I don't remember the "we don't need your votes" lasting that long, it was after the primary they were already heavily leaning on the "you loving lefties" just out of sheer gamesmanship. Because politics is about the winning team rubbing it in the faces of the losing team, not about making the country better.
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Oct 30, 2018 21:14
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WampaLord posted:It was fun watching them flip from "fine, we don't need your worthless lefty votes" to "you loving lefties and your purity tests costs us the election!" I think my favorite (read: not favorite) part was the overnight pivot from trumpeting Hillary's inevitability to "well of course this happened, anybody could've told you that we're just too good to win in this nasty sinful racist country." I honestly believe the reason people vehemently defend Joe Manchin is less a fear of losing West Virginia than a need to reassure themselves that it's populated entirely by inbred troglodytes.
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Oct 30, 2018 21:33
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seriously cannot believe liberals attempting to trivialize Trump's birthright citizenship EO as a "distraction," as though it doesn't do real, material harm to already marginalized people regardless of whether or not it survives the courts
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Oct 30, 2018 21:42
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My favorite about it is "wait...he can't do that...r-r-r--rule of law?" Bitch you think ICE cares??? You think the Supreme Court is gonna stop him? Come on now
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Oct 30, 2018 21:48
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Let's see how that Hillary sound bite is playing out.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXvWlX5LZ_U
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Oct 30, 2018 21:54
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WampaLord posted:It was fun watching them flip from "fine, we don't need your worthless lefty votes" to "you loving lefties and your purity tests costs us the election!" How many of us didn't vote? I voted for the goddamned centrists, and I'm going to vote for loving Menendez this time. They have my vote forever because the alternative is fascism and I have the privilege to not be hurt by most of the democrats' horrible policies. Most of us, with a few loud exceptions, aren't even saying that we won't vote for democrats, we're just trying to explain why some people who might be more disillusioned or less politically aware might not be able to beep-boop pragmatize themselves into going to the polls to check a box off for boring, corrupt, or conservative democrats. edit: if Bernie is the candidate in 2020, I can't wait to see the Hillary > Trump crossover numbers. gently caress centrists.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:02
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^^^It’s me. Im the guy that voted for Stein and I still don’t regret it. Though that’s easy for me to say since I was in a pretty safe state. I also didn’t vote for my local centrist candidates for senate/congress this year. Freakazoid_ posted:I don't remember the "we don't need your votes" lasting that long, it was after the primary they were already heavily leaning on the "you loving lefties" just out of sheer gamesmanship. Because politics is about the winning team rubbing it in the faces of the losing team, not about making the country better. The irony is that I may have been willing to grit my teeth and pull the lever for Hillary had the post-primary tone been even a little conciliatory. Her supporters were just so loving smug though that it killed any incentive I had to do so. Seriously, why would I vote for a party whose every position runs counter to my values when your entire sales pitch boils down to “we’re the best you’re going to get and we don’t need you anyways so go gently caress yourselves” readingatwork fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 22:06
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Verus posted:How many of us didn't vote? I voted for the goddamned centrists, and I'm going to vote for loving Menendez this time. They have my vote forever because the alternative is fascism and I have the privilege to not be hurt by most of the democrats' horrible policies. I know, that's why it's so upsetting to see them get SO loving ANGRY at the voters, like we're all political junkies on this subforum, but the average voter doesn't even know who their Congresscritter is, yet they expect them to perform some crazy moral calculus and vote for the lesser evil without even promising them anything that will actually improve their lives. I voted for Hillary, in Florida. Guess what, it didn't do poo poo, because I'm just one vote. Getting mad at the 5 or so goons who have announced their intention to vote third party or not vote is just wasting energy. readingatwork posted:^^^It’s me. Im the guy that voted for Stein and I still don’t regret it I voted Stein over Obama in 2012 since I was in CA and I was mega pissed about his drone shenanigans.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:21
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Verus posted:How many of us didn't vote? I voted for the goddamned centrists, and I'm going to vote for loving Menendez this time. They have my vote forever because the alternative is fascism and I have the privilege to not be hurt by most of the democrats' horrible policies. Careful now, insufficient enthusiasm for the team is heresy.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:50
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Koalas Massacre posted:Let's see how that Hillary sound bite is playing out.. Here's a great post about Hillary's (and her campaign as a whole) history of racism: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/4a5jbw/hillary_questioned_bernies_record_on_health_care/d0xlv3o/ The post doesn't even include the CPT skit with deblasio. Every time these incidents get brought up, it's all forgotten in a couple of months and we go back to pretending she's the SLAY KWEEN until the next incident of racism happens again.
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Oct 30, 2018 23:02
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:My favorite about it is "wait...he can't do that...r-r-r--rule of law?" it was ignored when i posted it in the trump thread but the court ignored the correct reading of the second amendment in heller (which stevens pointed out in his dissent). it's not like the amendment being clear is some invulnerable defense. they can use their pretzel logic whenever they want. Barry Convex posted:seriously cannot believe liberals attempting to trivialize Trump's birthright citizenship EO as a "distraction," as though it doesn't do real, material harm to already marginalized people regardless of whether or not it survives the courts it's like when it looked like hillary was going to win easily and coworkers/friends were telling me not to worry not realizing we'd already lost because he'd made it that far by letting the mask slip.
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Oct 30, 2018 23:08
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WampaLord posted:I voted Stein over Obama in 2012 since I was in CA and I was mega pissed about his drone shenanigans. (I also voted 3rd party in 2004 and let me tell you how much poo poo I got for years for that one).
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Oct 30, 2018 23:42
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Koalas Massacre posted:Let's see how that Hillary sound bite is playing out.. been a big fan of the 'clearly she was making fun of the reporter' defense when there's literally nothing in her mannerism or tone to suggest that
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Oct 30, 2018 23:43
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sexpig by night posted:been a big fan of the 'clearly she was making fun of the reporter' defense when there's literally nothing in her mannerism or tone to suggest that "I like Clinton, and I find examining my beliefs to be difficult and painful, so I choose to believe this other thing that eliminates the need for introspection instead"
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Oct 30, 2018 23:46
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sexpig by night posted:been a big fan of the 'clearly she was making fun of the reporter' defense when there's literally nothing in her mannerism or tone to suggest that I’m no Clinton fan but I took it as her taking a snide shot at the reporter. It’s weirdly combative though, and I also don’t think politicians doing ironic racism is really any better than doing actual racism, so I don’t think it excuses anything.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:15
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Voting for Stein in 2016 was colossally dumb, arguably even dumber than voting for Clinton. Stein was a known idiot by the 2016 election with bad views, and willing to back irrational positions for the support (anti-vaxxers). If you're going to protest vote for someone, just write-in your dream candidate. Picking the third box when that person also sucks is just a more extreme version of voting for the lesser evil. If you're knowingly voting for the lesser evil, then you should at least pick someone who has a chance of winning, otherwise why even bother?
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Oct 31, 2018 00:30
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