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Hey. Behave you two. 
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Nov 6, 2018 22:24
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So, essentially my sentiment was just that yes, while initiatives are a thing, then leftists should absolutely be using them and pushing for good reforms via them, but I still think they are by and large undemocratic nonsense that heavily favors the ability of wealthy individuals and corporations to essentially purchase their very own laws. I think reforming them to the point that they cannot be abused in that way would be good, however I'm open to other suggestions. Lightning Knight, if you feel that makes me "the dumbest person on the internet" then I'd happily eat a probe or a ban for it. My last comment about taking meds was probably lovely and I do apologize, mental health care is not a joke and i'm on the net irl has openly posted about their struggles with mental health in the past. Hang in there. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Nov 6, 2018 |
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Nov 6, 2018 22:30
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DrNutt posted:So, essentially my sentiment was just that yes, while initiatives are a thing, then leftists should absolutely be using them and pushing for good reforms via them, but I still think they are by and large undemocratic nonsense that heavily favors the ability of wealthy individuals and corporations to essentially purchase their very own laws. I think reforming them to the point that they cannot be abused in that way would be good, however I'm open to other suggestions. Your biggest mistake was not telling them to turn on their monitor instead of to take their meds.
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Nov 6, 2018 22:32
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poo poo POST MALONE posted:Lmao Boeing doesn't even do exit interviews as a standard practice. Smart of them
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Nov 6, 2018 22:33
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poo poo POST MALONE posted:You have no idea how bad I want to vandalize one of those posters. It's such absolute bullshit. The building I work in is getting the bathrooms renovated this month. The toilet in one of the stalls has been leaking since I started working there a year ago and there's a sink clogged at least once a day. Also the hot water stops working on the regular. I uhhh wasn't sure what I expected when I started working behind the fence.
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Nov 6, 2018 22:44
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Lightning Knight posted:Hey. Behave you two. Sorry I'll quit posting like I'm on CSPAM when I'm not on CSPAM. or quit being an rear end in a top hat generally
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Nov 6, 2018 23:05
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karthun posted:The Amazon head tax is a horrid idea and should instead be a progressive income tax, but good luck with that. I won't get into the head tax itself, but can we at least agree that a company writing a check to start a referendum drive to repeal a law that was unanimously passed by the elected representatives of the people and getting that law repealed because of it is just maybe possibly ever-so-slightly not the best thing in the universe for the concept of representative democracy?
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Nov 7, 2018 01:32
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Thanatosian posted:I won't get into the head tax itself, but can we at least agree that a company writing a check to start a referendum drive to repeal a law that was unanimously passed by the elected representatives of the people and getting that law repealed because of it is just maybe possibly ever-so-slightly not the best thing in the universe for the concept of representative democracy? It's pretty much impossible to avoid. You'd have to have publicing financing and strict firewalls against political spending to even have a stab at it.
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Nov 7, 2018 01:38
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:It's pretty much impossible to avoid. You'd have to have publicing financing and strict firewalls against political spending to even have a stab at it.
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Nov 7, 2018 01:43
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Ok fair, i'm an idiot. I was talking too generally.
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Nov 7, 2018 01:45
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I'd be a bit more okay with abolishing initiatives if we had a more robust electoral system that allowed for more than two parties.
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Nov 7, 2018 01:49
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DrNutt posted:So, essentially my sentiment was just that yes, while initiatives are a thing, then leftists should absolutely be using them and pushing for good reforms via them, but I still think they are by and large undemocratic nonsense that heavily favors the ability of wealthy individuals and corporations to essentially purchase their very own laws. I think reforming them to the point that they cannot be abused in that way would be good, however I'm open to other suggestions. Of all the criticisms to make of the initiative process, I don't think you can really call it undemocratic. It is in fact direct democracy, with all of the problems that might entail.
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Nov 7, 2018 01:53
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The people directly voting to overturn some poo poo passed by the legislature is a feature, not a bug.
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Nov 7, 2018 01:53
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therobit posted:Of all the criticisms to make of the initiative process, I don't think you can really call it undemocratic. It is in fact direct democracy, with all of the problems that might entail. Ham Equity fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Nov 7, 2018 |
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Nov 7, 2018 02:16
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Initiatives appear to be democratic on the surface, but when you get into the nitty gritty and realize corporations hire signature gatherers that try to get signatures using... dubious methods, and then pump millions of dollars into misleading advertisements, well... it doesn't feel democratic at all!
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Nov 7, 2018 02:28
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Legislatrues appear to be democratic on the surface, but when you get into the nitty gritty and realize corporations hire lobbyists that try to get compliance using... dubious methods, and then pump millions of dollars into misleading advertisements, well... it doesn't feel democratic at all!
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Nov 7, 2018 02:33
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I mean it sounds like the problem in your opinion is that the people don't directly vote on ENOUGH laws, which I don't disagree with at all
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Nov 7, 2018 02:37
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pseudorandom name posted:Legislatrues appear to be democratic on the surface, but when you get into the nitty gritty and realize corporations hire lobbyists that try to get compliance using... dubious methods, and then pump millions of dollars into misleading advertisements, well... it doesn't feel democratic at all!
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Nov 7, 2018 02:39
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No way other than volunteer labor.
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Nov 7, 2018 02:43
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pseudorandom name posted:No way other than volunteer labor. How many initiatives in the past ten years have gotten on the ballot using solely volunteer signature gatherers in Washington State? Oregon? California?
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Nov 7, 2018 02:46
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Thanatosian posted:How many initiatives in the past ten years have gotten on the ballot using solely volunteer signature gatherers in Washington State? Oregon? California? But it would be possible to do so if enough people got behind the bill. Show me the incorruptible legislators who have never taken a dime from anyone.
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Nov 7, 2018 04:53
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No big shock here but it's been called for Maria Cantwell in WA and Kate Brown in OR.
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Nov 7, 2018 05:29
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Hahaha, gently caress you Dino Rossi.
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Nov 7, 2018 05:32
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Solkanar512 posted:Hahaha, gently caress you Dino Rossi. Has it been called? It does look bad for him 
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Nov 7, 2018 05:37
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Solkanar512 posted:Hahaha, gently caress you Dino Rossi. Heh, more like Dino Lossi.
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Nov 7, 2018 05:40
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therobit posted:But it would be possible to do so if enough people got behind the bill. Show me the incorruptible legislators who have never taken a dime from anyone. Show me the initiative where this actually happened.
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Nov 7, 2018 05:42
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I-1631 isn't passing though flawed as it was I would have gladly traded I-1639 for it.
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Nov 7, 2018 05:42
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Peachfart posted:Heh, more like Dino Lossi. More like Dino LLLossi.
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Nov 7, 2018 05:46
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Peachfart posted:Heh, more like Dino Lossi.
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Nov 7, 2018 05:48
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https://twitter.com/gordonrfriedman/status/1060027757986406400
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Nov 7, 2018 05:52
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IM DAY DAY IRL posted:so PDX DSA has been putting pressure on the Blazers to end their partnership with leupold & stevens, a local optics manufacturer that supplies the IDF. they sponsor a "hometown heros" presentation at each blazers home game and, well, this is what happens when you accidentally pick a vet who is active in their local chapter
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Nov 7, 2018 06:07
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Carbon fee is failing and the soda tax prevention are winning, loving dark money.
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Nov 7, 2018 06:17
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So dumb that bonds require 60%, we're never getting this new school built. They're talking about moving to year round schools where the students would go in different shifts we're so overcrowded.
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Nov 7, 2018 06:28
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seiferguy posted:Carbon fee is failing and the soda tax prevention are winning, loving dark money. Don't blame dark money. Blame people who care more about cheap soft drinks than climate change. Dark money is an easy out. It's actually the electorate that are the assholes.
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Nov 7, 2018 06:28
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xrunner posted:Don't blame dark money. Blame people who care more about cheap soft drinks than climate change. Dark money is an easy out. It's actually the electorate that are the assholes. I mean yeah WA State has always been anti tax in any form, but all the ads I saw on TV were blatant misrepresentations of what 1631 and 1634 was. 1634 feels unconstitutional and I would hope would be challenged.
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Nov 7, 2018 06:31
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 it's both
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Nov 7, 2018 06:32
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get hosed dino
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Nov 7, 2018 08:30
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therobit posted:But it would be possible to do so if enough people got behind the bill. Show me the incorruptible legislators who have never taken a dime from anyone.
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Nov 7, 2018 16:15
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Thanatosian posted:It would have been possible for Bernie Sanders to win a write-in campaign in 2016, but I thought we were discussing reality, not magical fairy unicorn land. As it is with your talk about the possibility of incorruptible candidates. Initiatives are no more prone to being co-opted than candidates.
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Nov 7, 2018 16:23
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therobit posted:As it is with your talk about the possibility of incorruptible candidates. Initiatives are no more prone to being co-opted than candidates. I don't recall saying anything about incorruptible candidates. Citation?
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Nov 7, 2018 16:31
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