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if the report is damning, most of the methods we have to punish the bad actors are political not legal.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:39
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corn in the bible posted:The distressing thing, though, is that redistricting is coming up soon--all those wonderful districts will simply get more ornate and stupid and the State Lege will be solid red once again Beto lost by 2.6% and based on current trends Texas will be bluer in 2020, there's only so much gerrymandering can do.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:39
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Groovelord Neato posted:you probably would’ve had a blue tsunami had mueller done the right thing and leaked before the elections but republicans gonna republican. Leaked what exactly? That there's no evidence that Trump colluded with Putin to somehow win the election with a few lovely memes that nobody saw?
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Nov 8, 2018 16:39
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Blitz7x posted:Assuming the final report is damning With faint praise
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Nov 8, 2018 16:40
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Retro42 posted:Yup, the Trump admin game plan specifically for after the midterms seems to be wildly flailing about in any direction till something sticks. At this point is just disregarding any "Breaking" news unless its factual and not just "sources say". Ftfy There is no plan. Trump is clearly unhinged and lashing out even more like a moron now, and no one can stop him. Then they have to do these absolutely pathetic attempts at damage control and deflection. This is pure chaos.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:40
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Jarmak posted:only so much gerrymandering can do. 
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Nov 8, 2018 16:40
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Kimsemus posted:Do you want Mueller to leak to affect an election against DoJ policy, or do you want him to produce a report people take seriously that makes charges stick? Use your noodle and play the long game. I...I want the former yes. Why would you even ask that? I don't give a gently caress if Trump gets some procedural wrist slap...
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Nov 8, 2018 16:40
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spacetoaster posted:Leaked what exactly? That there's no evidence that Trump colluded with Putin to somehow win the election with a few lovely memes that nobody saw? no no you see blow your load on leaks that'll help people take your investigation seriously
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Nov 8, 2018 16:40
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spacetoaster posted:Leaked what exactly? That there's no evidence that Trump colluded with Putin to somehow win the election with a few lovely memes that nobody saw? The real colluder was... BERNIE SANDERS.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:40
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spacetoaster posted:Leaked what exactly? That there's no evidence that Trump colluded with Putin to somehow win the election with a few lovely memes that nobody saw? the obstruction case is a slam dunk.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:41
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Groovelord Neato posted:the obstruction case is a slam dunk. Not for POTUS. Good loving luck. There is ZERO evidence we've seen on obstruction so far. Or collusion at least with POTUS. You can't be vicariously guilty of a crime.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:41
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corn in the bible posted:
Williamson County makes me hopeful. It has been a hellhole for a long while. If you are ever in the Austin area, avoid Williamson County. A few feet can be the difference between a weed brownie resulting the a Travis County Deputy or Austin cop laughing about how you were planning to have some fun later and a Williamson County Deputy hauling you to jail and attempting to use the entire weight of the brownies you made as the basis for a life sentence.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:42
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https://twitter.com/matthewkeyslive/status/1060450913842749441?s=21
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Nov 8, 2018 16:42
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I can't even describe how much I hope Mueller's probe uncovers uncontrovertible proof of multiple big federal and state crimes by both the president and his cronies.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:42
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Kimsemus posted:Not for POTUS. Good loving luck. There is ZERO evidence we've seen on obstruction so far. Or collusion at least with POTUS. You can't be vicariously guilty of a crime. what. he admitted to obstruction in a television interview.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:42
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Groovelord Neato posted:you probably would’ve had a blue tsunami had mueller done the right thing and leaked before the elections but republicans gonna republican. i don't really think so. i think anyone who was voting based on trump's criminality already voted, and voted D. i think leaking it ahead of time would only have razzed up trump's base to come out and defend dear leader a little bit more, and distracted from the health care/tax cuts for the rich that democrats wanted to focus on at the end. democrats didn't campaign on trump's criminality. it's not because it doesn't matter - it does, and i think it's a part of why the suburbs revolted from the democratic party and voted D this year - it's because that message has gotten through loud and clear. talking about it more doesn't sway votes because those votes were already swayed; but there were people who were pissed off that republicans tried to steal their health care and could use some more reminding about it and that they should actually vote democratic or maybe sit this one out rather than vote republican.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:42
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Kimsemus posted:Not for POTUS. Good loving luck. There is ZERO evidence we've seen on obstruction so far. Or collusion at least with POTUS. You can't be vicariously guilty of a crime. Open your eyes, Link
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Nov 8, 2018 16:42
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That is utterly ridiculous but doesn't Texas have several of these abominations?
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Nov 8, 2018 16:43
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Groovelord Neato posted:what. I think he's trolling you.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:43
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Kimsemus posted:no no you see So wait you've changed from 'charges that will stick' to 'this won't even say anything'? Like, if Muller was this far along in a report with actual criminal activity yea he shoulda leaked it, why should we pretend to care about 'DoJ policy'? The 'charges that will stick' aren't going to matter, they're gonna be a lot of piddly crap 'your campaign people met with these guys and that was bad here's a fine' poo poo, but yea it'd probably be enough to motivate the people who think Putin is bugging their house to vote!
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Nov 8, 2018 16:43
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:See, yeah, that's a good way to make the point (also agreed) Please note that it's an almost statistically certainty that at least one justice will leave the bench before 2022.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:43
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Groovelord Neato posted:what. Make a case for obstruction that will see POTUS impeached/prosecuted. I'm all ears. So far we've reached collusion by some of his aides, but there has been no production on POTUS.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:43
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spacetoaster posted:Leaked what exactly? That there's no evidence that Trump colluded with Putin to somehow win the election with a few lovely memes that nobody saw? you mean, besides the meeting with an agent of the russian government who promised clinton's emails, as revealed in an email that don jr. personally posted on twitter?
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Nov 8, 2018 16:43
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Tibalt posted:If Sower Of Discord And Herald Of The Annoyance had voted against Kavanaugh, and lost on Tuesday, and we needed 6 seats to control the Senate, how would you feel about RBG's broken rib today? I know who Sower of Discord is but who's Herald of the Annoyance? Either way, they sound like bosses from Destiny 2.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:45
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evilweasel posted:you mean, besides the meeting with an agent of the russian government who promised clinton's emails, as revealed in an email that don jr. personally posted on twitter? cool Don Jr getting a big fine would be funny, that's not gonna stick to Trump himself though
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Nov 8, 2018 16:45
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Kimsemus posted:Make a case for obstruction that will see POTUS impeached/prosecuted. I'm all ears. So far we've reached collusion by some of his aides, but there has been no production on POTUS. There's no world where Trump is convicted on impeachment for any of this unless he somehow wins reelection in 2020 but Democrats take a 2/3rds majority in the House and Senate. That doesn't mean he hasn't actually committed any crimes, merely that Senate Republicans wouldn't vote to convict.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:45
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Yeah, that's kind of my point, that's what the situation already is
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Nov 8, 2018 16:45
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evilweasel posted:manchin was necessary for flipping the senate. it didn't flip, that sucks, but he was absolutely necessary to have a chance of it. that is also just a basic mathematical exercise, much like "what is a deciding vote". I imagine its quite nice to live in such a privileged bubble that you can trivially sacrifice other people's liberties and rights for potential gains- and when it doesn't pan out you just kind of shrugg your shoulders and go "that's how the cookie crumbles".  The ends are stupid and pointless when you don't actually get the ends. When you make a huge sacrifice and don't get anything in return, then yeah the sacrifice was not worth it. The reason our conversation is breaking down though is because you didn't make that sacrifice, other people did. Specifically LGBT and women. As you are none of those categories this is purely an intellectual exercise to you. You aren't going to directly suffer the consequences of what cabinet does to LGBT or reproductive rights so this is just like a game to you.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:45
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:I know who Sower of Discord is but who's Herald of the Annoyance? Either way, they sound like bosses from Destiny 2.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:46
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Lightning Knight posted:There's no world where Trump is convicted on impeachment for any of this unless he somehow wins reelection in 2020 but Democrats take a 2/3rds majority in the House and Senate. That doesn't mean he hasn't actually committed any crimes, merely that Senate Republicans wouldn't vote to convict. I don't disagree. My personal belief, for what it's worth, is Trump is surrounded by bad actors, but I don't think he himself colluded/obstructed. I can go into detail on this, but it's nothing people haven't already heard.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:46
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Anyone else wondering if Muller's report is coming out soon because ~someone~ ordered him to wrap it up early? That's assuming it's actually coming out soon, obv.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:46
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TyroneGoldstein posted:That is utterly ridiculous but doesn't Texas have several of these abominations? Sure, but that one is really funny because it actually got ruled against because it turned out the GOP deliberately packed in a bunch of hispanic voters (thus the weird spikes in San Antonio) with the hope of ousting lloyd doggett by running a hispanic Republican
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Nov 8, 2018 16:46
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TyroneGoldstein posted:That is utterly ridiculous but doesn't Texas have several of these abominations? District 2 extends from the very gay Montrose district of downtown all the way out to bumfuck Atascocita. The district voted red. 
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Nov 8, 2018 16:47
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evilweasel posted:you mean, besides the meeting with an agent of the russian government who promised clinton's emails, as revealed in an email that don jr. personally posted on twitter? Lock him up. https://twitter.com/AynRandPaulRyan/status/884794833457434624
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Nov 8, 2018 16:47
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Kimsemus posted:I don't disagree. My personal belief, for what it's worth, is Trump is surrounded by bad actors, but I don't think he himself colluded/obstructed. I can go into detail on this, but it's nothing people haven't already heard. I don’t think he personally colluded but he 100 percent without question obstructed. he admitted to it on television.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:47
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Groovelord Neato posted:I don’t think he personally colluded but he 100 percent without question obstructed. he admitted to it on television. Are you referring to that comment to the russian ambassador? I completely believe in his mind it was a distraction. I don't think there was malicious intent.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:49
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Groovelord Neato posted:I don’t think he personally colluded but he 100 percent without question obstructed. he admitted to it on television. Yeah I think his attempts to coerce loyalty from Department of Justice staff is demonstrable obstruction and should've led to impeachment proceedings if we lived in a normal country.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:49
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Lightning Knight posted:There's no world where Trump is convicted on impeachment for any of this unless he somehow wins reelection in 2020 but Democrats take a 2/3rds majority in the House and Senate. That doesn't mean he hasn't actually committed any crimes, merely that Senate Republicans wouldn't vote to convict. At this point I'll settle for his companies being razed to the ground and his family name eternally disgraced. No way in hell impeachment will ever occur. Even if we did get 2/3rd's I have the utmost confidence in Schumer going all 
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Nov 8, 2018 16:49
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Kimsemus posted:Not for POTUS. Good loving luck. There is ZERO evidence we've seen on obstruction so far. Or collusion at least with POTUS. You can't be vicariously guilty of a crime. ...The dude fired the Director of the FBI for investigating things, then went on record in a live interview and told the world he fired the Director of the FBI for investigating things. Then he fired several more people. Then he tried to stop Mueller several times from doing the investigation. No obstruction case on Trump?
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Nov 8, 2018 16:49
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Groovelord Neato posted:I don’t think he personally colluded but he 100 percent without question obstructed. he admitted to it on television. Of course Trump personally colluded. He's been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs for decades. He's up to his eyeballs in Russian money. He doesn't think it's collusion because for him it was just business as usual.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:49
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