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Are there any comprehensive updates on the Florida ballot counting situation - how many ballots are expected to be outstanding, when it's gotta be done, etc? I'm only finding articles about republicans trying to shut down counting all the votes, but little hard data on it and I'm trying to get up to speed on if there's actually a chance Nelson winds up ahead in the final count (before or after the recount).
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Nov 9, 2018 17:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daYKTvCBNz8
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Nov 9, 2018 17:25
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Tibalt posted:The People's Liberation Army of Braddock will die before we align ourselves with that orange trot splitter bastard If I join the PLAoB can I high-five John Fetterman every single day? FYI Gritty has been officially and legally welcomed into the city of Philadelphia.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:25
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Nice x 1000. 
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Nov 9, 2018 17:26
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I sure am glad Jill Stein wants Red Tide Rick to keep his seat.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:26
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J.A.B.C. posted:Gritty is a national treasure and should have won easily.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:26
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Main Paineframe posted:Really, the problem is that major presidential candidates are so consistently bad that popular opinions like "maybe we should do something about climate chance" and "maybe foreign interventionism is bad and we should cut it out" and "loving legalize weed already" are restricted exclusively to crazy fringe candidates like Ron Paul and Jill Stein. Stein is bad in many ways, and her antivax views are a grave threat to public health - but many are willing to put up with that because she reps policies that no other general election candidate dares to back. Except Ron Paul isn't anti-interventionism; he's perfectly fine with it as long as private contractors get to wet their beaks. He's also anti-federal drug war but perfectly cool with 50 separate states conducting their own War on Drugs. He's a lousy example. Isolationism is bad--I thought we settled this after World War II. No, we shouldn't poke our noses in where we're definitively not wanted, but so many people want us to withdraw and wall ourselves in... As for being pro-weed and pro-doing something about climate change, those things aren't fringe positions anymore. Not in the Democratic Party anyway.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:26
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"what happened to rule of law" i shout, blocking all memory of the career of Alberto Gonzales out of my mind due to inconvenience
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Nov 9, 2018 17:26
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Pellisworth posted:There's a ton of climate change stuff in that posted agenda too. No need to speculate, it's basically spelled out right there that that's exactly what it is. Write up some reasonable bills and put the ball in the senate/trump's court. They either pass/sign it or they don't, either way the Dems look better for 2020.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:27
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What's extraordinary about this one is that he's not even getting defensive about himself. He's getting defensive for Russia and Putin.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:27
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:it absolutely rules watching a lawyer trying to convince himself that no, really, after Bush V Gore 2000, "we tortured some folks," and "for the next two years committing fraud on homeowners is legal" there is such a thing as rule of law for the powerful sean10mm posted:And I kind of love the logic of "Rule of law was not followed before, so why ever bother trying to curb an open fascist blowing it off entirely?"
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Nov 9, 2018 17:27
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"people can't consider themselves beyond legal ramifications," i say, as I hand Wells Fargo and Bank Of America trillions of dollars and official license to steal people's homes from them
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Nov 9, 2018 17:28
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Pellisworth posted:There's a ton of climate change stuff in that posted agenda too. The right wing is gonna do that no matter what; gently caress what they (the right) think and gently caress "bipartisanship".
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Nov 9, 2018 17:28
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Groovelord Neato posted:when people say the president is above the rule of law they aren't talking about an executive order getting struck down. they're talking about how he's been in violation of the emoluments clause since the nanosecond he took office. they're talking about how we'll have to eventually pay hundreds of millions of dollars to his own properties because he spends so much time there. they're talking about all the nepotism, the allowance of his relations to profit from the presidency. the brazen and incalculable corruption. Okay, great. The fantastic thing about the socialist platform is the end of the billionaire class so nobody could ever pull poo poo like this ever again. Liberalism insists there are still "Good Billionaires" that will save the DNC, while these good billionaires do poo poo like fund Nazi campaigns, and uh, have monopolies on utilities with no public oversight.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:28
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Trump breaking down the sacred wall between the White House and DoJ that protected Rule of Law when J. Edgar Hoover tried to blackmail MLK into committing suicide
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Nov 9, 2018 17:28
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RuanGacho posted:I'm drawing a line here: gently caress yes. gently caress the anti-vaxxers, the anti-fluoride, the anti-GMO and so on. Furthermore, if we're going to make M4A work, we need to start getting more serious about funding basic medical and public health research.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:28
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Hail Gritty!
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Nov 9, 2018 17:28
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:it absolutely rules watching a lawyer trying to convince himself that no, really, after Bush V Gore 2000, "we tortured some folks," and "for the next two years committing fraud on homeowners is legal" there is such a thing as rule of law for the powerful So you're basically saying your battle cry is "nothing matters." (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 9, 2018 17:29
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:"what happened to rule of law" i shout, blocking all memory of the career of Alberto Gonzales out of my mind due to inconvenience 
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Nov 9, 2018 17:29
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:Isolationism is bad--I thought we settled this after World War II. No, we shouldn't poke our noses in where we're definitively not wanted, but so many people want us to withdraw and wall ourselves in... America is not wanted anywhere and is seen as the greatest threat to world peace. It was also this way during Obama. quote:As for being pro-weed and pro-doing something about climate change, those things aren't fringe positions anymore. Not in the Democratic Party anyway. The actual policy from Democrats seems to be letting rich white men monopolize the weed industry and begging billionaires to save us all, because the only legitimate power to the Democrats is private power. Wielding public power to actually achieve any sort of goal is seen as illegitimate.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:30
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TheScott2K posted:Trump breaking down the sacred wall between the White House and DoJ that protected Rule of Law when J. Edgar Hoover tried to blackmail MLK into committing suicide Hoover was a crazy person who served multiple Presidents. He wasn't a normal person who started doing crazy things because JFK installed someone who commanded him to.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:30
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evilweasel posted:Are there any comprehensive updates on the Florida ballot counting situation - how many ballots are expected to be outstanding, when it's gotta be done, etc? I'm only finding articles about republicans trying to shut down counting all the votes, but little hard data on it and I'm trying to get up to speed on if there's actually a chance Nelson winds up ahead in the final count (before or after the recount). two accounts to follow giving better coverage than most national ones: https://twitter.com/steveschale/status/1060928006758240256 https://twitter.com/electionsmith/status/1060748136447127552 it doesn't seem like people think Nelson is out of the running yet
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Nov 9, 2018 17:30
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evilweasel posted:but as a normal healthy adult the worst thing that'll happen to me if i get the flu is i feel crummy for two days. A health professional can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you're making the common mistake of confusing a bad winter head cold with the actual flu. Not a "stomach flu," not a bad cold or sinus infection. The no-poo poo real-deal influenza will knock you on your rear end for the better part of a week, even as a healthy adult.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:31
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sean10mm posted:Not empty quoting. yeah, it is monumentally stupid to bitch about past times where the rule of law was not followed and come to the conclusion "and that's why we should abolish the rule of law" when it's the bad people who will get more power as a result. like, it would make some amount of sense, though it would be short-sighted, if people were rooting for weakening the rule of law in favor of more power to someone they like. going "lol idiot why do you care about the rule of law, just give more power to trump" is astoundingly stupid
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Nov 9, 2018 17:32
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https://twitter.com/DavidKlion/status/1060932128643387393
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Nov 9, 2018 17:32
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understanding where we are at is important. where we are not is not an unprecedented challenge to the rule of law. it is a precedented challenge to the rule of law, against which the law has been shown to do really fuckin' badly. the only change now is that it's coming from someone who's being a dick about it. which is a large part of why the people squawking about "what happened to the rule of law" are so hopelessly unsuited to fight it. sorry, guys, the last twenty years are what happened to the rule of law. all those Reasonable, Pragmatic Sacrifices In The Name Of Governance added up in a real ugly way. screaming about the rulebook did not work then. how do you make it work now. (this is a question to which there is a correct answer)
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Nov 9, 2018 17:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Eh, I kinda disagree here. Your point is arguable but even in the late 70's / early 1980's marijuana legalization and gay rights were popular positions, they just were not politically acceptable positions -- much like single payer health care today, they were broadly popular but no one in political power was willing to advocate for them. Um what. American towns had lynching parties while Southern Democrats managed to block anti-lynching legislation in the US Senate and the Senate didn't even admit that was bad until 2005. Alabama kept a prohibition on interracial marriage in their constitution until 2000  The only reason it seems so shocking now that Nazis are openly talking about the inferiority of other races is that until pretty much the 90s that was the commonly accepted majority opinion, if you just stopped someone on the street and asked them to agree with racist poo poo they were likely to do it. Since most of us here in the forums went through our formative years in the late 90s/early 2000s it seemed like racism was beaten because for the first time ever it wasn't acceptable to be proudly racist in this country, but there was still a significant minority of racists and what we're seeing now is their reactionary backlash to the brief period when they were scared to be open about their beliefs. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 17:33
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evilweasel posted:yeah, it is monumentally stupid to bitch about past times where the rule of law was not followed and come to the conclusion "and that's why we should abolish the rule of law" when it's the bad people who will get more power as a result. like, it would make some amount of sense, though it would be short-sighted, if people were rooting for weakening the rule of law in favor of more power to someone they like. going "lol idiot why do you care about the rule of law, just give more power to trump" is astoundingly stupid Also Trump doing a bad thing that was previously done by somebody else isn't a reason to not attack him for it. What the gently caress kind of sadbrains  logic is that?
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Nov 9, 2018 17:34
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evilweasel posted:yeah, it is monumentally stupid to bitch about past times where the rule of law was not followed and come to the conclusion "and that's why we should abolish the rule of law" when it's the bad people who will get more power as a result. like, it would make some amount of sense, though it would be short-sighted, if people were rooting for weakening the rule of law in favor of more power to someone they like. going "lol idiot why do you care about the rule of law, just give more power to trump" is astoundingly stupid I think the crux of the issue is that a lot of the people sermoning about Rule of Law appear to be agitating for a return to a status quo that failed a huge number of Americans for a very long time. "Independent DoJ" doesn't look like the inherent good it's presented as when it spent decades independently kneecapping vulnerable Americans and glossing over the crimes of powerful ones.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:34
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Hoover was a crazy person who served multiple Presidents. He wasn't a normal person who started doing crazy things because JFK installed someone who commanded him to. Hoover was a problem of, effectively, a too independent DOJ/FBI, and is basically an example of why it's hard to make a formal structure work. There's always some place where you can have a bad actor, and it's a hard problem. But just because a problem is hard to solve doesn't mean there aren't really stupid answers, like "lets just not care, i'm sure giving trump unfettered power over the doj has no drawbacks".
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Nov 9, 2018 17:36
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sean10mm posted:Also Trump doing a bad thing that was previously done by somebody else isn't a reason to not attack him for it. What the gently caress kind of sadbrains if this is a question about rule of law, yes or no, you have received your answer. it is a convincing, echoing, bipartisan "no, the law is inconvenient for us." what does this suggest the next step is, if you wish to reinstitute it.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:37
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evilweasel posted:People have been doing it (trying to pass, basically, a Mueller protection bill) but conservative legal theory has been saying for years (well before Trump) that it would basically be unconstitutional to do so (the "unitary executive" theory) which is a big reason that this is tradition rather than formal law. Maybe, but conservative legal theory has also been saying for years (well before Trump) that birthright citizenship isn't actually guaranteed by the Constitution, so I don't see why we need to abide by their interpretation. Besides, the GOP weren't so hot on the unitary executive theory when a Democrat held the presidency. Describing either side of the Mueller fight as a carefully considered legal position is, I think, a bit of an exaggeration. It's more like a partisan political slapfight.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:38
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:Isolationism is bad--I thought we settled this after World War II. *surveys the ashes of 80 years of American empire and the countless piles of corpses growing ever higher* yep we need more of this
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Nov 9, 2018 17:38
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Groovelord Neato posted:when people say the president is above the rule of law they aren't talking about an executive order getting struck down. they're talking about how he's been in violation of the emoluments clause since the nanosecond he took office. they're talking about how we'll have to eventually pay hundreds of millions of dollars to his own properties because he spends so much time there. they're talking about all the nepotism, the allowance of his relations to profit from the presidency. the brazen and incalculable corruption. It's been rather enlightening as to how lovely and tenuous our entire system of government really is. Under Obama he couldn't sneeze without someone raising the question of a congressional investigation (that would grandstand, waste millions, and turn up bupkis). Trump gets a free pass for...I'm pretty sure it includes actual murder and cannibalism. Without the "co equal" branches of government actively acting as checks, things fall apart pretty quickly,
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Nov 9, 2018 17:39
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evilweasel posted:while i cannot say enough bad things about anti-vaxxers, my impression has been that disdain for the effectiveness of the flu shot (which does have significant swings in effectiveness), and not considering it a big deal because "it's the flu, what the gently caress is the big deal, you feel sick for a few days and get better" is not really at all correlated with anti-vaxxers. i only started considering it a medical necessity as opposed to a convenience that i could easily do without when i had a baby, because the baby could be at risk if they got the flu, but as a normal healthy adult the worst thing that'll happen to me if i get the flu is i feel crummy for two days. That's a wrong impression of the flu to begin with and a good place to start when dealing with misconceptions about it. Flu knocks a healthy, young human on their rear end for a week usually. Then there's the unlucky ones who are in that group who suffer complications and just die because flu gives zero fucks. The vaccine lowers thar risk significantly by both preventing the spread and lessening the effects of the virus. Even with its less than ideal effectiveness since one less person able to spread it, and suffer under flu, is one less vector to spread.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:39
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InsertPotPun posted:Guys. loving GUYS. Of COURSE he can. Of COURSE he knows basic facts: No he does it because he's a loving narcissistic moron and a pathological liar. He hasn't been badly burned for doing it because the media is a bunch of fuckwits, but if the media started holding his feet to the fire tomorrow Trump would still continue to blatantly lie about easily disprovable things because that's what pathological liars do. He is incapable of telling the truth when he perceives that a lie might possibly be more useful in the moment. He's been doing it his entire life. He probably started doing it because telling his psychopathic rear end in a top hat father what he wanted to hear would calm his wrath a bit or at least put off the reckoning. The abused become the abusers all the time and that's pretty clearly the case with Trump. He has gotten away with it so far in his life because of daddy's money. Now granted he's found a good match with the GOP which doesn't give a poo poo about things being true, but with rare and blatantly obvious exceptions he isn't making up lies with the intention of the CHUDs parroting them.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:40
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https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/1060934884724682752 This holds true for a lot of posters here too!
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Nov 9, 2018 17:40
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lizardman posted:What's extraordinary about this one is that he's not even getting defensive about himself. He's getting defensive for Russia and Putin. What I'm saying is that, when it comes to clever deceptions, my dog and my President are on the exact same skill level.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:40
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this guy is yooj
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Nov 9, 2018 17:40
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Mustached Demon posted:That's a wrong impression of the flu to begin with and a good place to start when dealing with misconceptions about it. Flu knocks a healthy, young human on their rear end for a week usually. Then there's the unlucky ones who are in that group who suffer complications and just die because flu gives zero fucks. It also doesn't help that getting the flu shot can still give you an immune response, leading to "I got the flu shot and I still got the flu, it didn't work!" mentality.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:41
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