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Tunicate posted:you mean like The First Federation It's been like 12 years since I watched TOS so I completely forgot that episode http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/First_Federation
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Nov 13, 2018 08:52
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Calypso sounds fun. Is there anywhere to watch this legally outside of the US, or does a soul have to find another way
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Nov 13, 2018 13:22
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Bohemian Nights posted:Calypso sounds fun. Is there anywhere to watch this legally outside of the US, or does a soul have to find another way
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Nov 13, 2018 13:36
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Please!!! leave my beautiful space baby boy out of this
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Nov 13, 2018 13:51
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Pick posted:Let JMS have Trek this time No way, he needs to get busy rebooting Captain Power.
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Nov 13, 2018 14:18
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Pick posted:Drunken romulan crewman seems a little on-the-nose but I'll take it Star Trek Online beat you to it.  The chief medical officer on the Romulan Republic's flagship is an old woman who's ex-Tal Shiar, keeps a distillery in the medbay and a disruptor cannon under her desk, and according to a game-official short story is a happily married lesbian.
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Nov 13, 2018 14:52
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Pick posted:This would have been a lot cooler but if I had to guess--and I don't think they'll ever cop to it--the writers weren't quite sophisticated to think of how they'd pull it off and also make the differentiation credible. I suspect the biggest thing keeping them from having a good go at it was time and budget. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 15:46
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Tom Guycot posted:I hate even dipping my toes into all this arguing about space shows, but I just couldn't pass this without saying that analogy would only be accurate if the United States was right not a utopia that actually had those qualities of liberty and justice. If something is truly a utopia, how could it become defunct unless its just transitioning into a different kind of utopia. If a utopia slides back into civil war and chaos then, yes it necessarily had to have something evil about it in its core. I feel like if we’re okay calling the Federation an utopia, we should be okay calling the United States an utopia. Starfleet is rife with warhawks and corruption. It has been since the very beginning, back when every other starship captain the Enterprise encountered was either insane, morally compromised, or both. People like Admirals Cartwright and Nechayev seem to be the rule rather than the exception. The only thing that really, definitively separates the Federation from us right now is that they’re ostensibly post-scarcity and don’t use money anymore (except when they do). And, again, change isn’t evil. Failure isn’t evil. Progress depends on them. The Federation isn’t somehow evil if it eventually falls. The very idea boggles my mind. I can’t think of anything more stultifying and restrictive than flashing forward a millenium and it’s just the same power structures but with differently shaped nacelles. quote:I think all this is a moot point anyways, star trek shouldn't be so up its rear end about the federation itself, it should be out on 5 year missions running into new poo poo, going to another galaxy and exploring, there should be something new around the bend to find. A show about the political struggles of a crumbling power into chaos is a waste of star trek. You could do that story anywhere. Let star trek show us something out there. There’s no reason a Star Trek set in that time period needs to be about the political struggles of what’s left of the Federation any more than the original series was about the politics of the Federation at its height. It’s a setting. It influences the themes and the flavour of the show, but it doesn’t need to be the main focus. It wasn’t the main focus of Calypso, was it?
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Nov 13, 2018 16:11
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Phylodox posted:I feel like if we’re okay calling the Federation an utopia, we should be okay calling the United States an utopia.
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Nov 13, 2018 16:19
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Cythereal posted:Star Trek Online beat you to it. nice
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Nov 13, 2018 16:34
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Nov 13, 2018 16:41
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Phylodox posted:I feel like if we’re okay calling the Federation an utopia, we should be okay calling the United States an utopia. Starfleet is rife with warhawks and corruption. It has been since the very beginning, back when every other starship captain the Enterprise encountered was either insane, morally compromised, or both. People like Admirals Cartwright and Nechayev seem to be the rule rather than the exception. The only thing that really, definitively separates the Federation from us right now is that they’re ostensibly post-scarcity and don’t use money anymore (except when they do). Earth is a utopia. Starfleet is where they stuff all the crazies which explains a lot. And the rest of your post is dumb and not worth addressing.
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Nov 13, 2018 17:07
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The US is not a utopia, if you ever catch yourself thinking that you're broken
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Nov 13, 2018 17:14
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Captain, might I point out that, being from a desert planet, I never learned how to swim. Further, I’m wearing a terry cloth bathrobe which will absorb a substantial amount of water.
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Nov 13, 2018 17:15
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Tighclops posted:The US is not a utopia, if you ever catch yourself thinking that you're broken or very rich and very white and very male
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Nov 13, 2018 17:23
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Tighclops posted:The US is not a utopia, if you ever catch yourself thinking that you're broken That’s the point. Neither is the Federation. That’s just what some people are projecting onto it.
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Nov 13, 2018 17:34
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Phylodox posted:That’s the point. Neither is the Federation. That’s just what some people are projecting onto it. Don't cut yourself on that razor sharp edge there
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Nov 13, 2018 17:41
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Tighclops posted:Don't cut yourself on that razor sharp edge there What edge? Seriously, how is it edgy to say the Federation isn’t perfect? Explain it to me.
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Nov 13, 2018 17:48
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Based on what I have seen, I see no reason to assume that the Mispronounced Federation is actually bad in the first place or even what makes them the bad guys. Just that main character doesn't like them.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:02
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Tighclops posted:Don't cut yourself on that razor sharp edge there Rofl there's nothing edgy or wrong in that post
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Nov 13, 2018 18:04
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Bohemian Nights posted:Rofl there's nothing edgy or wrong in that post It’s edgy because it’s a post he doesn’t agree with. Never mind how every show from TNG onwards has shown that the Federation’s utopia is extremely fragile and requires constant vigilance against threats without and within, and that sometimes all it takes is a single power-hungry Admiral to turn Earth into a police-state with troops patrolling the streets.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:06
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Wasn't Into Darkness basically this? Granted I only watched it once a few years ago and wasn't paying close attention to the plot but I think it was in there somewhere?
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Nov 13, 2018 18:11
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look I'm going to make fun of the guy that said the United States is a utopia if the Federation is a utopia. I'm familiar with the teenage inclination to assume that the Federation is actually bad because the real world is bad, I think that's edgelord nonsense and I believe that kind of edgelord nonsense is why the franchise is such a garbage state now. Of course it's imperfect otherwise there would never be any drama in the shows. gently caress.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:13
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Wasn't Into Darkness basically this? Granted I only watched it once a few years ago and wasn't paying close attention to the plot but I think it was in there somewhere? Yeah, Into Darkness is a lovely false-flag 9/11 allusion written by an idiot truther. I was referring to the DS9 episodes where all Admiral Leyton needs is bog-standard war paranoia and a squad of impressionable cadets to throw San Francisco into martial law overnight.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:14
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Tighclops posted:look I'm going to make fun of the guy that said the United States is a utopia if the Federation is a utopia. I'm familiar with the teenage inclination to assume that the Federation is actually bad because the real world is bad, I think that's edgelord nonsense and I believe that kind of edgelord nonsense is why the franchise is such a garbage state now. Of course it's imperfect otherwise there would never be any drama in the shows. gently caress. Who said the Federation is bad?!? It’s a better day-after-tomorrow. Jesus, with all this projecting you should consider a career as a ventriloquist.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:16
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Yeah, Into Darkness is a lovely false-flag 9/11 allusion written by an idiot truther. I was referring to the DS9 episodes where all Admiral Leyton needs is bog-standard war paranoia and a squad of impressionable cadets to throw San Francisco into martial law overnight. Ah yes the 9/11 allegory episodes that were done much better than anything else post 9/11 despite it being out before 9/11 happened.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:19
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Rewatched Homefront and Paradise Lost last night. Still way better than any post 9/11 poo poo Trek spewed up. edit - The lack of production budget for the latter is pretty laff, especially since it was such a pivotal story for the series. Apparently Ira Behr kept a "REMEMBER PARADISE LOST!" note in his office to try to not repeat the same mistake later. jeeves fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 18:25
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Sweet Jesus, Trek has been "deconstructing" the utopian Federation for like 20 years now. I don't want the series to just endlessly be about the dark side of paradise.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:25
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Sweet Jesus, Trek has been "deconstructing" the utopian Federation for like 20 years now. I don't want the series to just endlessly be about the dark side of paradise. It's...not? The short didn't even go into detail and pretty much every supposed scenario that has been presented is based on two throwaway lines in the short that have nothing to do with the plot or the motivations of the characters. The last few pages have been excessive hand wringing over the impact of fan theories about throwaway background elements. People should really watch the drat thing instead of this weird and insufferably indulgent argument arising out of what amounts to an easter egg. Like, I get that Star Trek Dicovery's first season was hamfisted in regards to a lot of this stuff which is very much part of the reason this sort of reaction is happening. So I'm not saying some skepticism is unwarranted, I'm saying that if you actually watch the drat thing you'll almost certainly agree that these themes that have caused so much consternation in the thread are just plain not there. The story is about the characters and their journey through recovery, hope, and most importantly their own humanity. You know, like good Star Trek.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:43
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An actual proper star trek branded take on Andromeda would be cool and maybe kinda timely. Don't focus on the grimdark collapse, focus on the rebuilding, show that Randian fascist populism can be resisted, that capitalism and slavery and dictatorship can be overcome.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:51
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I think some people are talking about this short thing and some people are talking about the wider direction of the franchise as a whole which is leading to some confusion
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Nov 13, 2018 18:55
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It was a bold move in Calypso when the guy got in the shuttle, turned around, and said "gently caress Star Trek" then pulled out dual pistols and started shooting the discovery
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Nov 13, 2018 19:09
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I also find it super depressing that people equate a depressing dystopia where all good things are lies hiding the true darker side with "realism". Like the hope of building a better future society is just so unbelievable to today's generation and we can't relate to media unless the world is dark and filled with injustice and all the characters are broken anti-heros or just flat out lovely people.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:40
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I liked "Calypso" but I gotta say I didn't see the point of "Runaway" at all. I go the theme of it but it seemed extremely insubstantial, even taking into account the runtime.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:45
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Why is it either/or? Why is the only alternative to perfection “grimdark edgy comic book” blah blah blah? I think it’s equally depressing that most people’s immediate reaction to the Federation not being around as-is forever is to start invoking depressing dystopias.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:47
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ashpanash posted:It's...not? The short didn't even go into detail and pretty much every supposed scenario that has been presented is based on two throwaway lines in the short that have nothing to do with the plot or the motivations of the characters. Lol won't you all feel silly when it turns out he was referring to the First Federation.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:56
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The whole V'draysha thing is silly, we're just regular rear end earthlings here and we're not loving up the pronunciation of Holy Roman Empire. Calypso is very good.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:33
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To be fair, as a species we can't even currently agree on the pronunciation of "potato."
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Nov 13, 2018 20:37
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Brawnfire posted:I liked "Calypso" but I gotta say I didn't see the point of "Runaway" at all. I go the theme of it but it seemed extremely insubstantial, even taking into account the runtime. Agreed, but for every "All Good Things" or "The Inner Light" there's a "Sub Rosa" to go along with it.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:38
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:To be fair, as a species we can't even currently agree on the pronunciation of "potato."
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Nov 13, 2018 20:39
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