|
https://twitter.com/FLRecount/status/1063078387332333568 https://twitter.com/senatemajldr/status/1062730571611365377 I want this ghoul to be miserable.
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:14 |
|
|
Avenatti4Pres posted:So you mean 10.5 Million people? Literally in the article. quote:Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has touted the ACA's insurance gains. But Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, who also is vying for the Democratic nomination, said recently that although more Americans have health insurance, their coverage isn't that comprehensive because of “outrageously high” deductibles and premiums. There is a world of difference between having insurance and health care. theflyingorc posted:Last chart i saw showed the rate of cost increase went down after the ACA passed That's a cold comfort if you couldn't already afford health care before it was passed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:50
|
|
|
Avenatti4Pres posted:So you mean 10.5 Million people? I'm not mocking poor people, I'm literally just saying the only people group the ACA is remotely affordable to are Silver Plan holders with 80% actuarial values, which are the ONLY plans subsidized based on income requirements. The average rate of increase for EMPLOYER based coverage is compounded 5% per year, year over year, and is costing on AVERAGE upwards of $20,000 per year so how is that sustainable? SUBSIDIZED plans are increasing even faster. The system, without any cost control whatsoever, is STILL increasing at the same alarming rate or higher year over year. The ACA in the last few years was a windfall. Unless it's fixed its going to collapse under its own weight. Even an honest fool can see that. http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/health-insurance-premiums.aspx Healthcare inflation outpaces almost every other industry by large margins. I'm not saying people didn't benefit from the ACA, I'm simply saying it's flying at record speed into a brick wall because of its own flaws and anyone capable of basic math can see that. Kimsemus fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:50
|
|
|
Vahakyla posted:Saved the life of two people I know. Unless you can articulate some reasons why it made life worse for countless people, you are patently wrong. the ACA has good parts, but it has failed completely at controlling the cost of premiums. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:51
|
|
|
Kimsemus posted:Employers are specifically exempt from providing contraceptives if they don't want to thanks to the case I mentioned in two other posts articulating problems with the ACA so this is a bad example. Also 1 more year longer on a parent's plan = immeasurable amount? You keep framing it as "1 year." That wasn't the change. Before the ACA it was based on dependent status, and plenty of people in their 20s stopped being dependents before 25.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:51
|
|
|
"ACA is worse than nothing" is the sort of sentiment you get from people who weren't aware of how bad things were in the 90s. Medicare expansion, the ban on pre-existing conditions, and extended coverage for dependents would each make Obamacare a good thing on their own. Obamacare is a good thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:51
|
|
|
Kimsemus posted:I'm not mocking poor people, I'm literally just saying the only people group the ACA is remotely affordable to are Silver Plan holders witgh 80% actuarial values, which are the ONLY plans subsidized based on income requirements. You do realize the only solution to this is literally letting old people die right?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:52
|
|
|
GoluboiOgon posted:the ACA has good parts, but it has failed completely at controlling the cost of premiums. I'm sure it goes without saying, but that is by design. ACA was always one group building a boat with another drilling holes in it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:53
|
|
|
In 2020, Trump is either going to win again or get hilariously destroyed. If he loses, the meltdown will be the most amazing thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:53
|
|
|
Your Taint posted:Nothing Trump does is good, even accidentally, so please tell me why this criminal justice reform bill is bad. HAHA, Trump is pressing criminal justice reform because he knows his crime family is going down and they will benefit from reform. The fact it might help others does not play into his thinking.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:54
|
|
|
Faustian Bargain posted:In 2020, Trump is either going to win again or get hilariously destroyed. If he loses, the meltdown will be the most amazing thing. The current map means he'll probably lose in a close election.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:54
|
|
|
Fritz Coldcockin posted:Nah, they seem like gazpacho guys, or maybe a nice tomato basil bisque. Gazpacho in November?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:54
|
|
|
The ACA being a life-changing or even life-saving thing for a lot of people, and also being woefully inadequate, deliberately hobbled from the start, and not meaningful to a lot of people are not mutually exclusive. It sure as hell helped me a lot, and helped a lot of people I know. It also hasn't helped or hasn't been enough for others I know. Healthcare is, it turns out, really important to a lot of people, so things like pre-existing conditions not being something you can be denied care over made a huge difference for a lot of people; that same importance also makes it that much more disgusting that a lot of people haven't received all the help they need because people involved in writing, passing, and implementing the ACA cared more about monetary and political gain than human lives. Seriously, I know "both sides" is a cliche and all, but both sides are being loving idiots here. "The ACA helped me so it's flawless/beyond reproach" and "The ACA has serious problems so all the people it did help don't matter" are both extremely stupid and self-centered takes, and particularly lovely for supposed leftists because in both cases the people being dismissed are those we're supposed to be going to bat for. You can acknowledge the ways it helped/failed people without ignoring or denying the significance of the people it failed/helped. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:55
|
|
|
Avenatti4Pres posted:You do realize the only solution to this is literally letting old people die right? You're undercutting your own argument. The simple solution is either single payer top down pressure or bottom up cost control, both of which are equally as viable. The disease infecting the ACA as it stands isn't old people (good god) but no cost control at the provider level. If you put the government in a position where its the main game in town and just won't buy from you if your costs are too high, or statutorily regulate provider costs, it solves the problem. You aren't magically going to get more healthy young people if those young people have no reason to use insurance as it stands so this is the only logical conclusion, not wishing for Grandma to die.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:55
|
|
|
highme posted:Gazpacho in November? Cold justice is fueled by cold soup, everyone knows that
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:55
|
|
|
CuddleCryptid posted:I'm sure it goes without saying, but that is by design. ACA was always one group building a boat with another drilling holes in it. With the builders hoping they'd get a chance to fix the built-in problems, and then being denied it by proto-chuds.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:56
|
|
|
ReidRansom posted:With the builders hoping they'd get a chance to fix the built-in problems, and then being denied it by proto-chuds. This is the most accurate statement made on the healthcare problem ITT yet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:56
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:The ACA being a life-changing or even life-saving thing for a lot of people, and also being woefully inadequate, deliberately hobbled from the start, and not meaningful to a lot of people are not mutually exclusive. It sure as hell helped me a lot, and helped a lot of people I know. It also hasn't helped or hasn't been enough for others I know. Healthcare is, it turns out, really important to a lot of people, so things like pre-existing conditions not being something you can be denied care over made a huge difference for a lot of people; that same importance also makes it that much more disgusting that a lot of people haven't received all the help they need because people involved in writing, passing, and implementing the ACA cared more about monetary and political gain than human lives. I don't think anyone is saying the ACA is flawless or beyond reproach. All I see is several people pushing back at the idea that the ACA didn't help tons of people.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:57
|
|
|
Faustian Bargain posted:In 2020, Trump is either going to win again or get hilariously destroyed. If he loses, the meltdown will be the most amazing thing. My current theory is that he wins while losing the popular vote by about 7 points. Because we live in hell.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:57
|
|
|
Fitzy Fitz posted:I don't think anyone is saying the ACA is flawless or beyond reproach. All I see is several people pushing back at the idea that the ACA didn't help tons of people.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:59
|
|
|
So Kushner and Matt Drudge have completely scrubbed their Twitters?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 16:59
|
|
|
Tibalt posted:"ACA is worse than nothing" is the sort of sentiment you get from people who weren't aware of how bad things were in the 90s. things were actually better in the 90s 
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:00
|
|
|
Beastie posted:So Kushner and Matt Drudge have completely scrubbed their Twitters? Drudge scrubs his regularly apparently, but I didn't know about Kushner
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
GoluboiOgon posted:things were actually better in the 90s Edit: seriously, saying things were better in the 90s because per-capita spending was less... jesus christ, that's the most goddamn ignorant thing I've ever heard. My brain is literally melting from this Fukushima level hot take. Tibalt fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:The ACA being a life-changing or even life-saving thing for a lot of people, and also being woefully inadequate, deliberately hobbled from the start, and not meaningful to a lot of people are not mutually exclusive. It sure as hell helped me a lot, and helped a lot of people I know. It also hasn't helped or hasn't been enough for others I know. Healthcare is, it turns out, really important to a lot of people, so things like pre-existing conditions not being something you can be denied care over made a huge difference for a lot of people; that same importance also makes it that much more disgusting that a lot of people haven't received all the help they need because people involved in writing, passing, and implementing the ACA cared more about monetary and political gain than human lives. I don't think anyone here is saying the ACA is flawless. The most common Democratic point is that it isn't perfect but it is a good step forward and needs to be improved upon. It's also very, very popular throughout the country. Which is a good thing. That means reforming it and improving it should have popular support. There are other countries that have ACA like models that work. While I think Medicare expansion is something that should be 100% added to the ACA, the model it is based on is not inherently the worst in the world.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:02
|
|
|
Faustian Bargain posted:In 2020, Trump is either going to win again or get hilariously destroyed. If he loses, the meltdown will be the most amazing thing. If Trump had any sense at all he would ditch out after one term, but he is already campaigning for 2020 so whelp. If he wins again he will probably have to spend the entire presidency walking around in one of those bomb disposal suits
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:02
|
|
|
Tibalt posted:I'm personally taking exception at the characterization of the ACA as a brick being thrown the window of the American healthcare system, for what it's worth. given the state of american healthcare i'm not sure if this is supposed to be a good thing or not.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:02
|
|
|
Avenatti4Pres posted:But you do realize that high deductible health care plans were not a intrinsic part of the design of the ACA right? They were created by health insurance companies to get around profit limitations implemented by the ACA. Bullshit, the people who wrote up the ACA explicitly promoted high deductible health plans. Jonathan Gruber's major body of work at MIT was the promotion of high deductible health plans (neoliberals use the moniker "consumer driven health plan"). The point is that the democrats want healthcare rationed strictly by income, instead of the current system where people's employers pay the bulk of their bills for them. There is nothing more upsetting to an Ivy League liberal (whose university health plans often have no cost sharing) than some union schmuck making 14/hr but has no deductible thanks to their union "Cadillac" plan. Avenatti4Pres posted:There are other countries that have ACA like models that work. While I think Medicare expansion is something that should be 100% added to the ACA, the model it is based on is not inherently the worst in the world. The individual mandate in switzerland forces people to buy highly regulated, nonprofit plans with a "dial-a-deductible" feature where the subscriber can pick how much they want to pay out of pocket before the plan kicks in. HDHPs offered on ACA exchanges are just social darwinism for anyone above the medicaid/CSR subsidy threshold. American political and economic elites think the middle classes are using too much healthcare and the ACA is their approach in limiting it. CAPS LOCK BROKEN fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:02
|
|
|
Beastie posted:So Kushner and Matt Drudge have completely scrubbed their Twitters? Kushner's account is stub, he's never tweeted.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
Blitz7x posted:Drudge scrubs his regularly apparently, but I didn't know about Kushner Didn't know that Drudge does that, I guess when you're a moron you have to cover your rear end often. Kushner: https://twitter.com/jaredkushner Edit: Saw the post above mine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
GoluboiOgon posted:things were actually better in the 90s That chart cuts off too early to make that comparison. The ACA took effect in 2010, so you only have 1 data point to show how fast costs are rising under ACA vs the 90s.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
cochise posted:Chicken noodle, split pea, or perhaps a nice minestrone? Clam chowder.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:04
|
|
|
Beastie posted:Didn't know that Drudge does that, I guess when you're a moron you have to cover your rear end often. but he can't be so stupid as to think that makes them go away. Right? e: o I see
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:04
|
|
|
Beastie posted:Didn't know that Drudge does that, I guess when you're a moron you have to cover your rear end often. Apparently he's never tweeted. I remember last year people pointed out Kushner's account didn't have any tweets but it was found out he never posted anything.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:04
|
|
|
Dr. VooDoo posted:I hope @jack feels like the piece of poo poo he is. He did his best to coddle right wing Nazis and they still hate his loving guts and now the POTUS is trashing his website for being biased lmao I assume Trump will accuse Twitter of being biased as long as people support non-Republicans on it. If it wasn't biased, it would be all in favour of him. Doesn't have to be the right-wing Nazis. As long as anyone says something bad about Trump, it's biased against him. Edit: Corrected for accuracy Prism fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:Seriously, I know "both sides" is a cliche and all, but both sides are being loving idiots here. "The ACA helped me so it's flawless/beyond reproach" literally nobody is saying this
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
The most effective way to reduce per-capita healthcare spending would be the systematic elimination of smokers, the elderly, and the disabled, so maybe don't use increasing or decreasing per-capita costs as your sole metric jesus christ
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:08
|
|
|
GoluboiOgon posted:things were actually better in the 90s What is inflation? The 2000s were the years premiums were really skyrocketing by the way. Premium rates rose 133% from 1999-2008. That period between 2011 and 2016 when rates weren't going up by insane amounts annually is probably the best numbers in terms of premiums we've had in the past 20 years. I think our president put it best. Obama posted:Like every major piece of legislation -- from Social Security to Medicare -- the law is not perfect. We’ve had to make adjustments along the way, and the implementation -- especially with the website -- has had its share of problems. We know something about that. And, yes, at times this reform has been contentious and confusing, and obviously it’s had its share of critics. That’s part of what change looks like in a democracy. Change is hard. Fixing what’s broken is hard. Overcoming skepticism and fear of something new is hard. A lot of times folks would prefer the devil they know to the devil they don’t. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:09
|
|
|
Is there an ACA thread? There should be.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:14 |
|
|
Kimsemus posted:It was meant as a joke -- though to be fair as soon as a recruit graduates boot camp right now he gets a Global War on Terror campaign medal so it's within the realm of possibility with POTUS. I was authorized to (and didn't) wear the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal because I spent 31 days in Egypt during a joint forces exercise where I ran a black market selling a smuggled cache of German porn to our repressed allies and overpaying for French wine rations. A shocking amount of stolen valor is wage theft.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 17:12
|
|
