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Old James posted:That chart cuts off too early to make that comparison. The ACA took effect in 2010, so you only have 1 data point to show how fast costs are rising under ACA vs the 90s. us medical spending more than doubled between 1989 and 2009, i was just saying that the us was spending far less in the 1990s on medical care for similar outcomes. per capita medical spending has not gone down since 2011. i've been posting these graphs not to try to invalidate the experiences of people who have good insurance under obamacare (i'm seriously glad that obamacare is helping some people), but to show that these good outcomes are not the experience that many people have. in states that did not expand medicaid, many people were forced to either buy health insurance that they could not afford, or pay a fine that they could not afford for not being unable to afford heath insurance. obamacare has not produced stable markets in most states, and only the rapidly rising premiums on individual plans are keeping insurance companies in the markets.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:13
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Ambassadors are usually loving stupid.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:13
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GoluboiOgon posted:us medical spending more than doubled between 1989 and 2009, i was just saying that the us was spending far less in the 1990s on medical care for similar outcomes. per capita medical spending has not gone down since 2011. The secondary problem in most states is that many, many insurers flat out just withdrew from the state exchange, the Healthcare Exchange (healthcare.gov) and this had the effect of INCREASING prices in some of the areas where affordable healthcare was needed most, especially in the rural south.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:15
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https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/15/poll-unaffiliated-voters-donald-trump-republicans-election/ Here is a good article about a poll showing Trump essentially decimated the Colorado GOP Gardner should be toast in 2020, barring significant Dem fuckups (lol)
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Nov 15, 2018 17:16
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Avenatti4Pres posted:Obamacare may not have been perfect, but it was pretty drat meaningful and as written a lot stronger than what occurred. The medicaid expansion? That was supposed to be nationwide. But the courts blocked it. Republicans sued over every single provision in the legislation and won most of those battles.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:16
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my bony fealty posted:https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/15/poll-unaffiliated-voters-donald-trump-republicans-election/
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Nov 15, 2018 17:20
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I could write a whole OP on american healthcare bullshit, but here's a snippet I like to tell to get people on my level: I work in a hospital and we recently almost lost insurance access to services provided in our hospital by our insurance which is paid for, in part, by this hospital. There's so much bureaucracy and waste that is almost a satire of itself.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:21
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Avenatti4Pres posted:What is inflation? inflation rose ~30% 1999-2011, it was a minor contributor to that graph. premiums rose 60% over 2011-2016. a 10% annual increase in premiums, when wages have been almost flat, is not sustainable. frankly, given how much more america spends per capita than any other developed country, any sustainable insurance plan will have to shrink costs, not raise them.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:21
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turnip kid posted:https://twitter.com/FLRecount/status/1063078387332333568 Is it normal to show up for something like this when you haven't actually won? Do people do this? is this a first?
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Nov 15, 2018 17:22
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Guys, the dude with the avatar of a little idealized video game Trump building the wall, which he only has because he was forced to change from an avatar featuring a racist Mexican stereotype, who was just in this thread QQing about "race-washing" mass shootings, is not arguing about the ACA in good faith.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:23
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turnip kid posted:Is it normal to show up for something like this when you haven't actually won? Do people do this? is this a first? Well, when you've placed everyone in the room under the Imperius Curse, the others tend not to object 
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Nov 15, 2018 17:23
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turnip kid posted:Is it normal to show up for something like this when you haven't actually won? Do people do this? is this a first? It's normal. The opponents are likely there too, they just have class.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:24
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Casey Finnigan posted:Guys, the dude with the avatar of a little idealized video game Trump building the wall, which he only has because he was forced to change from an avatar featuring a racist Mexican stereotype, who was just in this thread QQing about "race-washing" mass shootings, is not arguing about the ACA in good faith. you're an idiot white noise poster that can't handle different opinions. you and your attempt at silencing can go get hosed, especially when people are having an actual earnest D&D in D&D, god forbid. I sure am putting a LOT of effort into an elaborate ACA troll where I'm constantly undercutting both the conservative AND left viewpoint on it because *reasons* let me tell you.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:24
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GoluboiOgon posted:
healthcare is the #1 sector of GDP, #1 employer of people, and #1 source of lobbying dollars at local, state, and federal levels. Requiring providers to form confederations where they bargain a single, transparent price for services and products on a regional level would go a long way to fixing the healthcare cost problem, but that would mean everyone involved, doctors, hospitals, nurses etc. taking a haircut.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:25
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Tibalt posted:CO, AZ, and NH are about as close as I'll say to a Democrat lock out of the competitive seats. I suspect that NC and ME are going to be Lean Dem seats but not sure things. NC has a ton of angry soy bean farmers trying to make a living in a post-tobacco world. I expect NC will be blue
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Nov 15, 2018 17:25
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https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1063102091500154881 At least parts of the government still kinda-sorta work 
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Nov 15, 2018 17:26
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Kimsemus posted:you're an idiot white noise poster that can't handle different opinions. you and your attempt at silencing can go get hosed, especially when people are having an actual earnest D&D in D&D, god forbid.  Why won't people take me seriously? Just cause I'm racist?
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Nov 15, 2018 17:27
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Chilichimp posted:Ambassadors are usually loving stupid. The caveat to this is that usually Ambassadors have a competent career staff that actually handles the day-to-day stuff and buffers the embassy from the rich toadie occupying the chair. Have you seen the condition of the State Department lately? Edit: Kimsemus posted:
All those other nations have socialized/single payer care. Until we get that effective cost controls aren't going to happen. That said, the ACA applied some brakes to the acceleration (until the GOP stripped them out). OAquinas fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Nov 15, 2018 |
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Nov 15, 2018 17:30
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Casey Finnigan posted:
hey guys thinking is hard so instead of discussing things i'm going to bury my head in the sand, claim racism and go b b b but muh sensibilities and cancer up this thread for everyone! Anyway, I think the point we're beating around is still cost control, here is the US on a line graph of similar developed nations:  Until cost controls are in place nothing else can be done.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:30
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Does this help Gillum at all?
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Nov 15, 2018 17:31
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Munkeymon posted:https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1063102091500154881 In this case the part in Riyadh that chose which names would appear on this list.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:31
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Brony Car posted:Does this help Gillum at all? Does it help? Yes. Will it be enough? Who knows
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Nov 15, 2018 17:32
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Munkeymon posted:https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1063102091500154881 This is probably because of pressure from the U.S. Department of State, since they have to push sanctions through the Treasury Dept.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:32
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I don't want to defend Aviannti because lol he's a loving weirdo, but a dedicated person could absolutely gin up probable cause to sustain a DV arrest. If I didn't understand or care about anything beyond tomorrow here's how I would do it. 1: hire/recruit sexy decoy to try to establish a relationship. If he's an egomaniac horndog who takes the bait all the better, but if not all I really need are a photograph or two of her together with the mark. 2: gently caress up the sexy decoy to the point of "traumatic injury" so you can get a felony. This isnt as hard as it sounds, in some jurisdictions simple bruising counts. 3: get inside or wait outside his building/house, wait for him to leave and make the 911 call. 4: Meet police outside with visible injuries, a story about how the mark caused them and proof of the relationship. That's p.c. for arrest. It wouldn't hold up for more than a few days, but you get your headline.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:34
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Medullah posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1063081553075625984?s=19 Has someone asked him why he doesn't blame Russia for colluding with democrats?
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Nov 15, 2018 17:36
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Kimsemus posted:The secondary problem in most states is that many, many insurers flat out just withdrew from the state exchange, the Healthcare Exchange (healthcare.gov) and this had the effect of INCREASING prices in some of the areas where affordable healthcare was needed most, especially in the rural south. This is literally what happened to me. First couple years of ACA were great, I finally had insurance for the first time in over a decade, since becoming self-employed. Prices were reasonable, I got a lot of stuff fixed and everything was great. Then we elected Trump and literally every provider pulled out of my area's marketplace. Now I don't have insurance again.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:36
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lizardman posted:Has someone asked him why he doesn't blame Russia for colluding with democrats? The Trump Cinematic Universe has a lot of plot holes.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:37
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I don't want to defend Aviannti because lol he's a loving weirdo, but a dedicated person could absolutely gin up probable cause to sustain a DV arrest. If I didn't understand or care about anything beyond tomorrow here's how I would do it. Jacob Wohl is a goon?
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Nov 15, 2018 17:38
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I don't want to defend Aviannti because lol he's a loving weirdo, but a dedicated person could absolutely gin up probable cause to sustain a DV arrest. If I didn't understand or care about anything beyond tomorrow here's how I would do it. If Wohl did have a hand in this, can't wait until the accuser is revealed to be Wohl's girlfriend. Again.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:39
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Instead of the PPACA(Patient Protection and Affordable Care act) how about the PPAOCAA(Personal Politician Alexandria Ocasio Cortez for All Act)
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Nov 15, 2018 17:40
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Instead of the PPACA(Patient Protection and Affordable Care act) how about the PPAOCAA(Personal Politician Alexandria Ocasio Cortez for All Act)
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Nov 15, 2018 17:42
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GoluboiOgon posted:the ACA has good parts, but it has failed completely at controlling the cost of premiums. This is a garbage chart, btw. The pre-2014 individually insured population was medically underwritten, so it was a much healthier population that you would expect to have lower costs. Since individual coverage is now guaranteed issue, you should be comparing ACA premiums to what employers are paying for their insurance. Hint: they're about the same. http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/health-insurance-premiums.aspx quote:In 2018 the average annual premium for employer-based family coverage rose 5 percent to $19,616; for single coverage, premiums rose 3 percent to $6,896. That's $574 PMPM for single coverage, still $65 above ACA coverage. Reik fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Nov 15, 2018 |
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Nov 15, 2018 17:44
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Poque posted:literally nobody is saying this Okay, fine, would you prefer "Because the ACA helped me it was clearly made with nothing but good intentions, and the ways it failed people are insignificant or were all accidents or Republican/Lieberman sabotage rather than deliberate parts of it from the moment of its creation because even when dealing with potentially life-saving legislation the Democrats cared more about personal and lobbyist interests than the lives of the American people"? Because there are people trying to absolve those behind the ACA of its flaws and inadequacies when even if implemented exactly as originally written many would have still existed because they were by design. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue, though. I was writing on a phone and wanted to save a little time in an already-long post, and figured that given everything I said before and after people would get what I was saying instead of eschewing context to be pedantic about a snarky, obviously-reductive comment. Clearly I should have remembered where I am.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:50
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I don't want to defend Aviannti because lol he's a loving weirdo, but a dedicated person could absolutely gin up probable cause to sustain a DV arrest. If I didn't understand or care about anything beyond tomorrow here's how I would do it. I can make the wiki!
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Nov 15, 2018 17:51
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Adar posted:All of the halfway competent people in the party have been forced into Trumpism and are permanently tainted with it, so if 2020 goes well it will be distinctly hard for “good” republican candidates to break through the swamp (kinda like in 2010-2016 when the Dems basically had no bench whatsoever) Cruz absolutely can will do a serious presidential run, your assumption seems to be TRUMP will be seen as a negative by the GOP primary voting base going forward
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Nov 15, 2018 17:54
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Ocasio-Cortez posed for a photo wearing expensive shoes, so she's basically an empty suit hypocrite.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:55
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https://twitter.com/BBuchman_CNS/status/1063105551746371585?s=19
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Nov 15, 2018 17:57
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https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1063111419158245376 Like, loving seriously these people
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Nov 15, 2018 17:57
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Roland Jones posted:Okay, fine, would you prefer "Because the ACA helped me it was clearly made with nothing but good intentions, and the ways it failed people are insignificant or were all accidents or Republican/Lieberman sabotage rather than deliberate parts of it from the moment of its creation because even when dealing with potentially life-saving legislation the Democrats cared more about personal and lobbyist interests than the lives of the American people"? Because there are people trying to absolve those behind the ACA of its flaws and inadequacies when even if implemented exactly as originally written many would have still existed because they were by design. Quote these people, please.
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Nov 15, 2018 17:57
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Reik posted:This is a garbage chart, btw. The pre-2014 individually insured population was medically underwritten, so it was a much healthier population that you would expect to have lower costs. Since individual coverage is now guaranteed issue, you should be comparing ACA premiums to what employers are paying for their insurance. Hint: they're about the same. the point isn't that insurance companies gouge companies as much as individuals (who only pay ~20% of the premium incidentally in employer based plans), the point is that prices are rising out of control for both employer-provided insurance and the individual plans, and that obamacare didn't stop this problem.
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Nov 15, 2018 18:00
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