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ninjewtsu posted:I think "who the good guy is and who the bad guy is gets a little muddled when you're looking at individual soldiers" is kind of the point. It's like reading nazi soldier diaries: yeah, obviously the nazi were an insanely evil government that needed to be eradicated, but once you start looking at individual soldiers you start seeing a lot more nuance and humanity in them, especially the ones who don't agree with the regime but ended up in the armed services by circumstance, or who immediately realized how hosed up things were as soon as they saw the atrocities in person, or who were themselves victims of the regime. This is not an understanding that is contradicted by the nazi government being atrocious. Oh, I get that, but when they played with that in War in the Pocket, they made a point of showing the higher ups, so you could go "Captain Hardy is a good man and a father figure to his troops. The people who run his side of the war are genocidal nutjobs." Meanwhile, the only time we see higher ranks in Thunderbolt, they're coming in to play the cavalry. It's odd.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:51
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i mean captain hardy's only issue with stabbing a child to death was "we would get caught" bernie's squad got some humanizing moments but they were pretty unquestionably kinda crummy people outside of that. bernie was the only zeon guy in 0080 who i find terribly sympathetic i guess what it comes down to is that 0080 makes a very overt point to put "zeon and nearly everyone associated with them is awful" front and center, while thunderbolt plays around with sympathetic zeon soldiers that are actively having their lives ruined by the sadistic zeon regime, and i guess by portraying multiple sympathetic zeon characters the show runs the risk of the audience confusing the characters for the regime itself. i think if things were reversed, and the zeon protagonist was the one who was a psychotic murder-junkie and the federation protagonist was the one who slowly lost his humanity, that'd be a less ideologically controversial show, and probably still work out fine, but i'd personally find it much less interesting, and robbed of much of its depth and nuance
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Oct 28, 2018 00:41
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ninjewtsu posted:i mean captain hardy's only issue with stabbing a child to death was "we would get caught" No, that's the excuse he gave Garcia, because Garcia is what most people call "A big fan of murder". Hardy using that line is the secretly-not-so-bad enemy officer version of "It's not like I like you or anything, B...baka!" I'm pretty sure we're meant to find Hardy sympathetic. If we weren't, there wouldn't be the scenes with Charlie, where he's told that the war's nearly lost, there's no point to getting killed so close to the finish line, and if the colony goes up in nuclear fire, well, he had a good run. Hardy's shown to be fighting a losing battle for the same reason Bernie would later. He's on the wrong side, but he comes down more on Ral's side than Gihren's on Zeon's internal debate vis a vis war crimes.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:59
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ninjewtsu posted:i mean captain hardy's only issue with stabbing a child to death was "we would get caught" This is probably on the money. I see a lot of discussion about Thunderbolt in various places where people hold it up on a pedestal as an example of both sides of the war being equally awful specifically because of the character portrayals. Many viewers don't seem to be that great at separating the people from the government, so when your focus characters are sympathetic the faction is sympathetic. It's especially muddied in the case of Thunderbolt. We're shown a total of four actual Federation characters(Io, Claudia, Cornelius, and the XO); Io is a war-addicted adrenaline junkie who mocks and laughs at crippled people as he kills them, Claudia is a simpering drug addict, the XO is a zealot rear end in a top hat who murders his own captain, and Cornelius is the only one portrayed as a decent person. Meanwhile we touch on the Living Dead a whole lot more and the only one of them who is shown as a complete prick is Karla's cowardly rear end in a top hat scientist coworker. We see Daryl's squadmates and companions hanging out with him, grieving with him, and sympathizing with him. We see the leader of the Living Dead being shown to exhibit horror and regret at the thought of asking Daryl to pilot the Psycho Zaku. We see Karla and Daryl bonding over their losses. The Federation is barely humanized and Zeon is. If you're not paying attention to the context of the Living Dead existing or the metanarrative of the battle taking place in the bombed out ruins of the Moore Brotherhood's home, it's easy to forget that Zeon are loving monsters.
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Oct 28, 2018 02:17
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Finished my rewatch of Unicorn episodes 5 and 6. Episode 5 is better than I remember it being, and the aerial battle with the Zulu's literally strapped to the sides of the Garancieres to act as turrets was great. But episode 5 is definitely where things start to grind to a halt plotwise and the speeches start getting way too long, a problem that is amplified in episode 6. It is just so drat boring and pretty much nothing substantial happens through the whole episode. Instead we get five or six speeches musing about the fate of humanity and the only one that's decent is Full Frontal's economic plan. It's a shame then, that the speech has to go on for ten minutes like FF's turning into John Galt. It reminds me of how the second Hobbit film ended with a filler chase scene and the actual finale was stapled to the beginning of the third movie, with the big Industrial 7 battle getting shunted to the beginning of episode 7. There's a lot of chaff in the back half of Unicorn where actions are replaced by speeches, rather than the relatively decent balance they had for the first four episodes (with 3 dipping a bit). While the OVAs are definitely better paced than the RE:0096 chop job, I feel like their need to hold to the 50 minute mark resulted in a lot of stretched scenes where they just didn't have enough stuff happening to justify the running time. EVEN SO, EVEN SO, EVEN SO, EVEN SO, BANAGHER JUST REMEMBER EVEN SO!
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Nov 1, 2018 03:49
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About 30 or so episodes into Victory now and it's still pretty great, if it manages to keep it up through to the end it may be my new favorite Gundam, and even if it doesn't it's still a very close second. Poor Uso though, that kid's troubles keep escalating. It's great to see how he has evolved from just helping out to stop his house getting stepped on, to reluctant regular pilot, to hot-blooded ace. The scene with the drying pole gun stands out as a fairly important moment. Up until that point, wherever possible, Uso had been trying his best to just critically damage enemy MS so the pilots would eject. Then after struggling to hold back the enemy with a pair of beam pistols, the Fishbone brings him this "old" gun and he wrongly assumes that it'll be fairly weak but better than nothing. When he fires it though, it completely obliterates the enemy MS, leaving Uso in shock as he's showered in shrapnel, and its scenes like that, along with being forced to manually fire the big Haro is great too, I've seen people say it before but Victory Haro is definitely the best iteration of Haro.  On the downside, studio/sponsor interference is starting to show a bit. The unnecessary voice-overs for scene transitions in particular stand out pretty badly. Also while Shakti started out and as an interesting foil to Uso, she really hasn't developed as much as she should have. Her comments on the introduction of the V2 (I like this mobile suit because your mom and stuff) sort of feels like an excuse to push her further to the back, excusing her from further comments on Uso piloting a mobile suit. I'm still not crazy about the Zanscare mobile suits either but they've grown on me a little (I'd be happy to drop 20 bucks if a modern HG Zoloat showed up) then again I have just started the Hot Wheels arc which still feels pretty silly. Arcsquad12 posted:EVEN SO, EVEN SO, EVEN SO, EVEN SO, BANAGHER JUST REMEMBER EVEN SO!
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Nov 4, 2018 06:47
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Even so, he even so'ed.
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Nov 4, 2018 06:50
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Duker Icq would have owned Banagher with the power of motorcycles.
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Nov 4, 2018 18:53
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 Banagher wouldn't stand a chance. But Duker's aspirations are weighed down by gravity. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 22:27
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Arcsquad12 posted:
Even so!
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Nov 4, 2018 22:36
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You can Even So some dumb Newtype bullshit, but’s let see you try and do it to this sweet souped up chopper. 
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Nov 4, 2018 23:03
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Duker's magic carpet ride would have been all about how awesome driving is, and Banagher would have converted. He'd show up to Audrey's place with a big bike and sunglasses, covering Riddhe wioth dust as they rode off into the sunset together.
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Nov 4, 2018 23:30
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WE HAVE TO GO BACK!!!!! Is this a LOST quote? no it's loving Uso and Shakti talkin about Casarellia.
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Nov 5, 2018 03:35
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ZZ Gundam is 47 episodes. I had remembered it only being like 38 or 41 maybe. Why are we wandering in the desert again? I keep waiting for the drat thing to pick up, its so drat meandering. This show maybe more than any other Gundam I can remember loves to introduce one off characters as antagonists who either are rendered destitute or killed off in the same episode you meet them.
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Nov 14, 2018 22:17
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Non Mobile suit related but I really like the design of the Musai class and it's derivatives, because they really show the difference between a people raised in space and those weighed down by gravity. You have a ship that presents as minimal a profile as possible without sacrificing firepower. With the sloped dorsal spine it allows the ship to focus all of its firepower forward while presenting a small target, and the turrets can still swivel to provide broadside fire in close quarters. The engine pods are on wide booms which also house the Mobile suit launch decks, and mounting the suits on racks rather than standing them up lets them fire off a whole squadron in seconds rather than loading each suit into a catapult like it's a fighter jet. The federation ships literally look like WW2 cruisers and carriers (and trojan horses) and they all look like they would operate better on the water than in deep space.
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Nov 14, 2018 23:28
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wrong thread
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Nov 15, 2018 15:27
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Sneak peek from live action Gundam?  https://twitter.com/Pvt_Rascal/status/1062313133308407809?s=19
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Nov 15, 2018 15:52
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Goddamnit Kou
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Nov 15, 2018 16:21
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chiasaur11 posted:I know we've done this whole song and dance before, but the thing I find weird about Thunderbolt is how, based on the facts on the ground, the Feddies are way better people, but the camera lens keep being more sympathetic to the Zekes. yeah that's the main issue here and why the argument keeps going in circles, while the facts the show gives us shows that zeon is monstrous the show portrays them as heroic soldiers bravely sacrificing themselves for a greater cause while the feds are cackling sociopaths e: of course the real answer is that the japanese fanbase has some insanely mixed feelings about zeon for obvious reasons Yinlock fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Nov 16, 2018 |
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Nov 16, 2018 07:46
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Yinlock posted:e: of course the real answer is that the japanese fanbase has some insanely mixed feelings about zeon for obvious reasons It's Gundam fans in general, it has nothing to do with the Japanese fanbase in particular. The real real answer is that Tomino always started from a point where he intended to show both sides of the conflict as fundamentally human but led by bad people, which means UC stuff has a tendency to want to be "fairer" to both sides by sometimes dialling up the "the Federation are capitalist oppressors" angle and dialling down the "Zeon are genocidal fascists" one. For Thunderbolt, Io is a lovely person and Darryl is a nice dude, so you're naturally going to be more sympathetic to the side not chiefly represented by a raging rear end in a top hat. There's also the fact that pre-Zabi Zeon is morally in the right: anti-colonialism, environmentalism and opposition to a capitalist elite are all morally good ideologies. It's easy to stop there and see Zeon as the underdog with a righteous cause, rather than the guys who pumped nerve gas into multiple colony cylinders so they could drop one on Earth, killing billions of people in the process. edit: also Zeon suits are cooler.
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Nov 16, 2018 |
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Nov 16, 2018 11:17
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Next week Sunrise is doing a livestream presentation to celebrate Gundam's 40th anniversary http://gundam40th.net/
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Nov 16, 2018 14:32
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Gripweed posted:Next week Sunrise is doing a livestream presentation to celebrate Gundam's 40th anniversary Well specially they're doing a livestream to announce their plans for the 40th Anniversary Project but yeah, came here to post the same.
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Nov 16, 2018 16:20
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RillAkBea posted:Well specially they're doing a livestream to announce their plans for the 40th Anniversary Project but yeah, came here to post the same. Turn-A Part 2? Turn-A remaster? Turn-A English Dub?! Turn-X as the story of Turn-A but also incorporating Seed, 00, IBO, and answering the G Reco vs. Turn-A question?????
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Nov 16, 2018 17:23
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Warmachine posted:Turn-A Part 2? Turn-A remaster? Turn-A English Dub?! Turn-X as the story of Turn-A but also incorporating Seed, 00, IBO, and answering the G Reco vs. Turn-A question????? Gundam: The Origin TV series, retelling the One Year War. The Iron Blooded Orphans sequel. A GBD sequel/continuation/attempt to salvage the trainwreck with a new Director.
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Nov 16, 2018 17:27
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Gundam: The Origin TV series, retelling the One Year War. The first one there is also acceptable. HD remake of 0079 would be great, but also might be better saved for the 50th? IBO ended convincingly, and lol no on that last one. Clearly they're going to pick the last one.
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Nov 16, 2018 17:29
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Warmachine posted:The first one there is also acceptable. HD remake of 0079 would be great, but also might be better saved for the 50th? IBO ended convincingly, and lol no on that last one. The second one is a known thing they've been teasing for a while now, we're just waiting for the actual reveal.
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Nov 16, 2018 17:31
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Warmachine posted:Turn-A Part 2? Turn-A remaster? Turn-A English Dub?! Turn-X as the story of Turn-A but also incorporating Seed, 00, IBO, and answering the G Reco vs. Turn-A question????? Please answer the space whale question too
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Nov 16, 2018 17:35
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Spelling Mitsake posted:Please answer the space whale question too "Why did they call this thing a whale stone? Does that look like a whale to you?"
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Nov 16, 2018 17:43
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Another teaser for some VFX shots from the Legendary Pictures Gundam adaptation. An HD remaster of ZZ that still uses the overseas English dub with THE STUPID ADULTS. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Nov 16, 2018 |
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Nov 16, 2018 17:50
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I know it's futile, and it might read crazy, because I feel that UC-related media will always, in one way or another, either center around a conflict during or employ a framework similar to the One Year War because how the hell do you get away from something as massively popular and important to Gundam...? ... but at the same time, I really kinda wish that whichever Bandai producers get to veto Gundam-related stuff would just go "Okay, enough. No more OYW/stuff based on WWII for a while".
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Nov 16, 2018 17:52
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I remember the hype they were doing for Gundam's 30th anniversary. gently caress me time flies.
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Nov 16, 2018 17:54
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Well aren't they doing Hathaway's Flash? Somewhat different from zeon conflicts. And hopefully Thunderbolt season 3 goes further with the SSA's hybrid mobile suits.
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Nov 16, 2018 17:56
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Arcsquad12 posted:Well aren't they doing Hathaway's Flash? Somewhat different from zeon conflicts. And hopefully Thunderbolt season 3 goes further with the SSA's hybrid mobile suits.
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Nov 16, 2018 18:01
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Wark Say posted:I know it's futile, and it might read crazy, because I feel that UC-related media will always, in one way or another, either center around a conflict during or employ a framework similar to the One Year War because how the hell do you get away from something as massively popular and important to Gundam...? As bad as I thought Divers was and as much I don't think BF or Try were really that much better, at least they tried to something different than "OYW variation" that even something decent like IBO fell victim to at times.
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Nov 16, 2018 18:05
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Give us a full F91 tv show you cowards.
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Nov 16, 2018 18:07
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Come on Gaia Gear anime. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP3TqH0iEc0
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Nov 16, 2018 18:18
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Wark Say posted:I know it's futile, and it might read crazy, because I feel that UC-related media will always, in one way or another, either center around a conflict during or employ a framework similar to the One Year War because how the hell do you get away from something as massively popular and important to Gundam...? Anything coming out of the 40th anniversary stuff is almost certainly going to be more OYW stuff.
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Nov 16, 2018 18:37
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Just adapt Crossbone already, God Gundam. There's more than enough material to make it last for years! And it's even UC if this absolutely must be!
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Nov 16, 2018 19:01
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Wark Say posted:I know it's futile, and it might read crazy, because I feel that UC-related media will always, in one way or another, either center around a conflict during or employ a framework similar to the One Year War because how the hell do you get away from something as massively popular and important to Gundam...? It's the same reason why Star Wars will always be based around some sort of "plucky good guy rebels fighting an evil empire or empire-adjacent faction". Even in the prequel movies, where the "good guys" were the legitimate government and the "bad guys" were separatist rebels, basically every battle was framed around a heroic and horribly outnumbered group of plucky Jedi fighting against an infinite number of evil droids because that's the franchise's expected aesthetic. The OYW is baked into Gundam's DNA, and for better or for worse, will always define the franchise. Kanos fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Nov 16, 2018 |
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Nov 16, 2018 22:30
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Kanos posted:The OYW is baked into Gundam's DNA, and for better or for worse, will always define the franchise. Only really UC Gundam. A lot of Gundam shows have gotten away from the OYW or OYW type conflict. G Gundam, G-Reco, all three seasons of Build Fighters, etc. It's just if they're doing a show set in the Universal Century, people are gonna want to see Zakus
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Nov 17, 2018 05:47
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