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Junior G-man posted:I've always believed that the world would've been so much more fun with the Greek or Roman pantheons still around as major religions. Goat offerings, orgies, good-time stories and entrail reading - what's not to love? freedom OF religion doesn't mean freedom FROM religion, that's why we're putting up a statue of Jupiter hucking a thunderbolt while schlonging a chick outside of the state courthouse
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Nov 17, 2018 18:41
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GreyjoyBastard posted:freedom OF religion doesn't mean freedom FROM religion, that's why we're putting up a statue of Jupiter hucking a thunderbolt while schlonging a chick outside of the state courthouse You'll get sued by Dionysiac cultists tomorrow buddy. Equal representation or no representation.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:43
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GreyjoyBastard posted:freedom OF religion doesn't mean freedom FROM religion, that's why we're putting up a statue of Jupiter hucking a thunderbolt while schlonging a chick outside of the state courthouse In this universe Jesus is voiced by James Woods.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:43
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Crow Jane posted:What's it like, to have so little joy in life? Gritty looks like he just did the world's biggest coke bump and all he wants to do is skate and kill fascists, how can you not love him? I think I would cry with joy if I saw a Proud Boy at a game, but the camera closes in on Gritty's face as he starts skating to the racist gently caress and beating the poo poo out of him on the ice.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:44
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Stexils posted:warren isnt winning not because of ideology but because of lack of charisma and political savvy There may be other reasons, but saying Elizabeth Warren lacks charisma is a bit of a stretch. I'd say that's one of her strongest suits. Her steadfast honest anger somehow defies the FOX crowd's ability to call a pissed off woman a shrill harpy, as is their dish of every single day + tomorrow. She can command a conversation.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:46
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Gritty needs rollerblades so he can kill fascists off the ice
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Nov 17, 2018 18:47
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Junior G-man posted:You'll get sued by Dionysiac cultists tomorrow buddy. Equal representation or no representation. I could get behind having a Congressional Maenad Caucus. No boys allowed at their meetings lest they murder you with their bare hands. what I'm saying is I think I've talked myself around to liking this alternate timeline
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Nov 17, 2018 18:47
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paranoid randroid posted:Gritty needs rollerblades so he can kill fascists off the ice Even if you hate Gritty, he still loves, or might possibly kill you! 
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Nov 17, 2018 18:49
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Twinty Zuleps posted:It is cargo-culting a Leftist Pepe into existence two years too late. Never too late to beat up fascists. Showing up to the party late is not an excuse.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:50
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RuanGacho posted:Goat offerings, orgies, good time stories and entrails reading.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:50
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paranoid randroid posted:Gritty needs rollerblades so he can kill fascists off the ice He's coked up enough that the whole world is his ice rink. Plus ice skates are better for stomping fascists than rollerblades.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:51
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I can't believe anyone still thinks Elizabeth Warren has any actual political skill after the DNA test thing
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Nov 17, 2018 18:51
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RuanGacho posted:Goat offerings, orgies, good time stories and entrails reading. ive been to florida and in my experience its less drunken ritualistic goat offering orgies and more one dude getting high off his gourd on elevator paste and whooping while feeding chickens into a woodchipper
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Nov 17, 2018 18:52
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I could get behind having a Congressional Maenad Caucus. No boys allowed at their meetings lest they murder you with their bare hands. smdh maenad is a perjorative - please stop repeating right-wing slurs about the bacchantes
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Nov 17, 2018 18:52
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Praise Bilquis, y'all.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:53
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FuturePastNow posted:I can't believe anyone still thinks Elizabeth Warren has any actual political skill after the DNA test thing It was nice of her to let us know how bad she was at reading the room before things got too far.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:54
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Ytlaya posted:This is a good post, and basically the reason why I think it's extremely lovely when people get all irritated and condescending towards the left about what are essentially basic justice and human rights issues. It's the sort of situation where, even if those things aren't likely to happen in the near future, it's completely ridiculous to mock or betlittle someone demanding them and doesn't reflect well on the person doing so. I frequently draw an analogy to someone advocating for some other historical issue like civil rights* or women's suffrage, because it sheds light on how tone-deaf and inappropriate it is to tut-tut someone demanding those things (and, in my opinion, reveals that the person in question simply doesn't view contemporary justice issues as being as serious and important as they are). This is bullshit framing, every oppressed group throughout history has had to fight tooth and nail for every advance that has been gained. It's been and continues a struggle because of inertia of human thinking and the fear that any gain for an oppressed group is a loss for the privileged and that privileged group will leverage their power to protect their privilege. Recognizing that reality is not condoning it anymore than recognizing that too much sun exposure leads to skin cancer is condoning and endorsing cancer. As wonderful as it would be for people to spontaneously decide that the current system is unfair, broken and ultimately suicidal and stand up, overturn that system and replace it with something better, history has shown us that that is highly unlikely to happen. More even when it does happen the results are seldom much of an improvement. What has worked in the past is a steady strategic pressure put on the public and the sources of economic and political power. A multi-pronged strategy of activism combined with practical exercises of solidarity to achieve political power to affect change. Yes people starving today are still starving, there have always been innocent people who are suffering and if history is any guide that isn't going to change any time soon. Recognizing that reality is not condoning or supporting that situation it is simply a recognition of the reality that one is operating in. Because without recognizing that reality one has no chance of changing it. I don't argue against the Dems are bad brigade because I don't recognize the problem, nor am I doing so to because I am privileged and protected from consequences, these injustices may not affect me as directly as they do those targeted groups but they do affect and threaten me as well as people who I care about who are not of those privileged classes, besides being male and white isn't going to shield me from the affects of climate change. It may significantly lower the chances of being shot by a cop but it's not going to keep me out of bankruptcy if I lose my job and it's not going to put a roof over my family's heads or food on our table. And while it is accurate to say that the majority of white people are insulated enough from the worst challenges that threaten our oppressed brothers, sisters and others that doesn't change the fact that they are threatened as well. The thing is that we do have a mechanism to affect real change, that's the political process, and the strategy that brings about change is to be engaged be active and constantly push for the better choices at every level and at every choice. It's imperfect, it's frustrating because the game is rigged and the system designed intentionally to be resistant to change. But there is not a workable alternative. If we can't get enough support to get our policies enacted through the political process, what the gently caress makes you think that there is sufficient support for a more direct approach? If people are unable or unwilling to go through the effort to vote, what in the world makes you think that they would be able or willing to rebel? Particularly given the power and technology that the system can bring to bear against such an uprising. One it's not going to happen, the system is designed to keep people just comfortable enough to not want to risk worse. That's why the Right is always pointing to Venezuela as the potential outcome of the lefts success. Because it is meant to illustrate how much people have to lose. That it's a false narrative is irrelevant, human beings are stupid irrational cavemen and are easily manipulated. That is the practical reality of the matter. So we are left trying to thread the needle of our most effective avenue of success. Not a quick or easy path by any means, a frustrating, difficult path full of traps and obstacles that have to be overcome. Including well meaning but stupid "allies" who aren't willing to go far enough fast enough and opponents who not only fight us tooth and nail but have the majority of the resources including the money and the media backed up by a very sophisticated, well funded scientifically developed and designed propaganda system that is focused on undermining the solidarity of the our movement aided and signal boosted by other well meaning allies such as the ever present Dems are bad brigade . The answer as far as how to achieve the power to address the threats and injustices we are concerned about is simple we just have to convince more people to vote for people who believe as we do. It's just one of those simple things that isn't easy because the intermediate steps are hard. Because we lack a direct channel to present our ideas to the people without distortion and disinformation, because humans are not rational thinkers but rather irrational emotional thinking creatures that are subject to cognitive biases and vulnerable to logical fallacies, social pressures and self interest that is far from enlightened. So we are facing not so much an uphill climb as a reinforced armored wall covered in razor sharp spikes, booby traps and enemies standing on the ramparts armed with boiling oil, arrows and giant bags of money. That's the challenge we're up against. The only truly viable counter to that challenge is solidarity and numbers. Those things go hand in hand, infighting about who has it worse doesn't improve anyone's situation. Being reminded of things that we all know such as the idea that people are suffering now doesn't do anything other than promote feelings of hopelessness and futility. Yes they are suffering and it sucks, but just because we can't improve their lot today does not make it pointless for us to work to stop these injustices from happening to others in the future. Nor does recognizing this mean that we don't care and aren't affected. Such knowledge should motivate us to continue to fight in whatever way we can. Seriously if I thought that there was something that I could do that would change things in a way that would solve the injustices in the world I would do it happily even if it cost my life. I'm just not going to do it for a pointless symbolic gesture that doesn't change poo poo. There isn't a military solution, for one the left has chosen to voluntarily disarm, but even if they hadn't the current government has us outgunned to a comical degree and if we had the level of public support to be able to launch an effective revolution we'd have the level of support to address the problems through the political process. Oh and on the whole Hillary crossed a picket line in her youth and was tone deaf to issues that literally weren't on people's I'm sure that every poster here has always had the most perfect enlightened woke views on every question ever, even those who were raised in conservative households and absolutely none of us flirted with libertarianism or any impure political ideologies while we were forming our political beliefs.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:58
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pumpinglemma posted:It is a dumb idea, but it doesn't make medicare for all any more difficult because you wouldn't pay for that out of increasing income taxes on the bottom 80% anyway - you'd either tax the rich/corporations specifically, or you'd make a new tax that applied to everyone. And while people earning $80,000 a year can absolutely afford to pay more taxes, the amount of tax revenue you're giving up by making it the bottom 80% rather than the bottom 50% and not carving out exemptions for temporarily-low-income millionaires is pretty negligible - about 85% of income tax comes from people earning $80,000 or more*, and another 5% comes from people earning $50,000 or less. It removes the option of making any part of the M4A taxes tied to income, or opens the doors for courts to find that yes, that non-income tax that was progressive was actually an income tax. And ~80k is the 80th percentile for individual income. So you are talking about household incomes of 160k for married couples.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:58
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joepinetree posted:opens the doors for courts to find that yes, that non-income tax that was progressive was actually an income tax. a House rule, which in this case the majority basically passes symbolically to constrain itself, does not create an enforceable right that can be challenged in court to invalidate completed legislation
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Nov 17, 2018 19:00
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Radish posted:It was nice of her to let us know how bad she was at reading the room before things got too far. Lucky for her literally no one cared two days after it happened
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Nov 17, 2018 19:02
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Skex posted:
This is completely false. The history of social progress is punctuated by dramatic changes often brought about as a result of a sufficient group of people banding together such that they threatened the stability of the entire system. That's how the labor movement happened, that's how civil rights happened, that's how the New Deal happened. Edit: Also let me clarify that the main criticism of your privilege is not that your privilege makes you unable to care, it's that your privilege leaves you with no practical experience or knowledge and how to fight oppression. You think your experience doing pkatq drills in an air-conditioned Dojo prepares you for a street brawl- and it simply does not. Let me re-emphasize that my criticism about your privilege is not that you don't care or that you don't see the problems, it's that you have no knowledge whatsoever as to what the solutions actually are. Your knowledge is all academic and theoretical and works great on paper- but the reality is that you have no direct experience of oppression. You're trying to lecture martial artists on how to fight based on your experience watching Jet Li movies. You think oppressors can be back down with shows of solidarity, and that's not how things worked at all. Oppressors can only be backed down when they feel personally threatened by the group that oppose them, nothing else will work. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 19:02
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joepinetree posted:It removes the option of making any part of the M4A taxes tied to income, or opens the doors for courts to find that yes, that non-income tax that was progressive was actually an income tax. And ~80k is the 80th percentile for individual income. So you are talking about household incomes of 160k for married couples. Does anyone know if there's a court case on retroactively invalidating legislation due to House rules? It seems like a really weird thing to m- eke out posted:a House rule, which in this case the majority basically passes symbolically to constrain itself, does not create an enforceable right that can be challenged in court to invalidate completed legislation naturally, efb, thanks
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Nov 17, 2018 19:03
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Nevvy Z posted:I know a lot of people look at Pelosi's "super majority for taxes on the poor" thing poorly, but I kind of love it. Any argument about what Republicans might do is invalid, they are already doing this bullshit in statehouses and if they think they have the votes they'll do it nationally no matter what dems do. There is no slippery slope, the Republican party is gonna dive as deep as they can no matter what. yeah lets just let the Jarvis Center's bullshit that has wrecked California for decades be the national law, brilliant idea!!
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Nov 17, 2018 19:05
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joepinetree posted:It removes the option of making any part of the M4A taxes tied to income, or opens the doors for courts to find that yes, that non-income tax that was progressive was actually an income tax. And ~80k is the 80th percentile for individual income. So you are talking about household incomes of 160k for married couples. It's closer to $125,000 household (phone posting so it's hard to look up, I posted the exact number in another thread yesterday) so it's far from rich, but it's still a terrible plan. It would be a terrible plan if it were just the bottom 50%.
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Nov 17, 2018 19:05
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reminder to everyone with a Democratic Congressperson to call their office and complain about the dumb rule i guess I could call Bill Flores and ask him to vote against it 
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Nov 17, 2018 19:06
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Demon Of The Fall posted:Lucky for her literally no one cared two days after it happened Yes. Like literally no one has cared or talked about it for the past 2 years.
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Nov 17, 2018 19:07
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I found some delicious post-election  Disaster posted:Well, it would seem my confidence in a Democrat Socialist skunking tonight was…ummm, misplaced.
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Nov 17, 2018 19:07
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Groovelord Neato posted:medicare for all would have most people's taxes go up. After non-stop tax cuts for 15 years, obviously.
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Nov 17, 2018 19:07
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Man, it's wild to see people advocating that we should be the white moderates described in MLK's letter from Birmingham Jail, because direct action and expecting things on a timetable where they actually matter are just too unrealistic and demanding. Respect the processes and unconditionally support the people that got us into this mess, because they'll surely get us out of it if we keep doing exactly what they want in exchange for nothing. Also yeah, speaking as a Californian, supermajorities to raise taxes are a bad, bad idea.
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Nov 17, 2018 19:10
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Roland Jones posted:Man, it's wild to see people advocating that we should be the white moderates described in MLK's letter from Birmingham Jail, because direct action and expecting things on a timetable where they actually matter are just too unrealistic and demanding. Respect the processes and unconditionally support the people that got us into this mess, because they'll surely get us out of it if we keep doing exactly what they want in exchange for nothing. yeah it would be wild to see this
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Nov 17, 2018 19:13
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So with Trump visiting California today, what the odds he decides to full Nero and try to rebuild all of the damaged areas in his image? Also will he have enough paper towels to throw? California is a big, big, huge place! Not a lot of people know that! 
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Nov 17, 2018 19:14
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pumpinglemma posted:Except for the part where you're not just threatening to swamp the entire boat, you're actually doing it. Have you looked at the results of the midterm yet
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Nov 17, 2018 19:16
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Junior G-man posted:I've always believed that the world would've been so much more fun with the Greek or Roman pantheons still around as major religions. Goat offerings, orgies, good-time stories and entrail reading - what's not to love? All the slave rape and executions of political undesirables, with the knowledge that the people in charge would be Trump and not some free love open minded hedonists?
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Nov 17, 2018 19:17
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TulliusCicero posted:So with Trump visiting California today, what the odds he decides to full Nero and try to rebuild all of the damaged areas in his image? Does he have any golf courses around there? If so, he'll probably do that, after wheezing a few words about the tremendous beautiful firemen
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Nov 17, 2018 19:18
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oh please, trump would last about 10 seconds in greek legend before he insulted hera and got some kind of hideous eternal punishment
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Nov 17, 2018 19:19
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eke out posted:yeah it would be wild to see this That's literally like 60% of the regulars here. There is a widespread belief itt that the only correct way to fight to change the system is to never disrupt the system in the process. And that's just completely the opposite of what history shows us to be true. We have child concentration camps in the desert filled with the forcefully orphaned children of asylum Seekers and climate change bearing down on our necks. This is not the time to think that the system or working within it will be sufficient to change course. This is the time to start rocking the boat and being very loud about why we're doing it.
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Nov 17, 2018 19:20
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Trump is going to campaign in Mississippi.
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Nov 17, 2018 19:21
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Stexils posted:oh please, trump would last about 10 seconds in greek legend before he insulted hera and got some kind of hideous eternal punishment This sounds like a great premise for an amazing anime series.
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Nov 17, 2018 19:21
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Prester Jane posted:We have child concentration camps in the desert filled with the forcefully orphaned children of asylum Seekers and climate change bearing down on our necks. honestly you should just quit it with this line that you repeat over and over again. you've repeatedly demonstrated you actually have no clue how immigration works, what agencies are involved, or what the current state of the family separation crisis actually is - and you don't seem really interested in learning about it or posting in any kind of informed way, just in saying "CHILD CONCENTRATION CAMPS" because you think it's the best way to own the libs
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Nov 17, 2018 19:25
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The last two years has been a bunch of infighting in the democratic party and calling the centrists dumb motherfuckers, and the end result was that we elected more democrats. Now that its a proven strategy for success I think we should keep doing it
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Nov 17, 2018 19:25
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