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MarquiseMindfang posted:I think the main contention from players is there's no guarantee people would've gone and gotten all their spells. I mean that's still true of any abilities you get from class quests for other classes.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:00
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ImpAtom posted:Yes? I don't get being excited about the job before you know how it plays. [....] If you enjoy playing Dark Knight would it have been less fun if ti was called Rune Fencer or something? yes, class fantasy is important to me hope this helps
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Nov 18, 2018 08:01
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the idea is it's different in the case of blue mage because there isnt a standard list of what should be "your spells". standardizing it to the basic class rotation, in square enix's vision, defeats the purpose of the job. e: in addition, getting "your spells" in this case would involve lots of grinding, rng, and looking poo poo up on the internet because you dont want to "explore" to find what you can actually unlock
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Nov 18, 2018 08:04
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I mean that's still true of any abilities you get from class quests for other classes. I don't disagree.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:04
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Imagine if, to play pugilist/monk you had to enter in loving fighting game combos to do your basic moves. That would be intensely group-unfriendly. But, with this whole "limited class" system, they could implement poo poo like that and have it be a cool experience. I'm just imagining what they could do with a beast/puppet master class. Basically making a full-on pokemon system for them where they have to capture monsters and fight with them based on weakness.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:05
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Kaubocks posted:yes, class fantasy is important to me Yeah it's almost like most FF jobs have few core features between appearances and typically vary wildly in effectiveness and actual mechanics. Like most things about the franchise, the aesthetics are what usually kept and mechanics usually shift. It's hosed up I have dual cast from the get go on RDM in 14. If it was true to classic mechanics I'd have to grind to cap before I unlocked it.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:06
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I wanna see Geomancer in this system. Learn spells from going to particular places under particular weather conditions etc etc.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:07
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Well let's hope the solo instance thing is actually fun and not just a quiz on whether or not you went and grinded in the right instances yet. That and the glamour potential is pretty much the only interesting thing about blue mage.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:10
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yeah it's almost like most FF jobs have few core features between appearances and typically vary wildly in effectiveness and actual mechanics. I feel like, with all other classes, they can be trimmed at the edges to fit within the FFXIV class paradigms. Blue Mages have always felt like a very special case. None of the classes in the game get abilities from quests anymore (aside from the level 70 quest). It would be weird to force you to do to the blue mage quests to get the abilities when they specifically made that change recently. But then at the same time, it would be infinitely worse to not have to do any quests to get your blue mage abilities and just have them.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:14
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Mordiceius posted:Imagine if, to play pugilist/monk you had to enter in loving fighting game combos to do your basic moves. That would be intensely group-unfriendly. But, with this whole "limited class" system, they could implement poo poo like that and have it be a cool experience. I would absolutely be down for that existing. Just... not instead of Monk? I would be all about this Limited Job if it wasn't BLU and so would many others. Bring back FFTA's Morpher, do an XI Monstrosity type thing. Hell yes. XI had Pankration, which is basically the Pokemon system you describe, and it didn't replace Beastmaster. (It still flopped because it gave out no relevant rewards.)
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Nov 18, 2018 08:14
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It didn't replace anything though, because if you believe yoship over the past 5 years the alternative to limited job BLU is no BLU at all, he didn't want to make it that way.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:19
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Mordiceius posted:Imagine if, to play pugilist/monk you had to enter in loving fighting game combos to do your basic moves. That would be intensely group-unfriendly. But, with this whole "limited class" system, they could implement poo poo like that and have it be a cool experience. That makes it worse. The fact that the game dangles potentially unique gameplay in front of you then promptly shoots it in the back of the loving head because poo poo we don't want to figure out how that will work in game so we're going to put you in the cootie corner where you can have your unique gameplay completely separate from everyone else. You can't do story, you can't do modern dungeons. gently caress, you can't even queue, you get to do gimmick parties in ancient instances only where you can't hurt anything. If they can't play with anyone else then what's the loving point? Either make the class or don't, don't make it unbalanced then excuse it with "oh no this is unbalanced this better make sure it never ever matters" and throw it in the dumpster.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:20
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Class fantasy is basically the enemy of good game design. For a video game, mechanics HAVE to come first. A slavish devotion to class fantasy results in situations like this where they're trying to crowbar a subsystem into a game that does a particular flavor of gameplay quite well and is probably going to do this subsystem in a rather unsatisfactory manner because it simply doesn't fit the framework available. Also, I have to wonder how many of the people clamoring about how excited they are for BLU as it has been announced will still be playing it, say, 2 months after its release. If only because they will have almost certainly run out of anything interesting to do on it by then. It's going to go the same way as every other subsystem crowbarred into the game.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:22
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Let's add moogles as a playable race to the game but moogles traditionally aren't very good fighters so you can't play combat jobs beyond 50. We feel this fits the moogle fantasy in final fantasy.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:27
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Obligatum VII posted:Also, I have to wonder how many of the people clamoring about how excited they are for BLU as it has been announced will still be playing it, say, 2 months after its release. If only because they will have almost certainly run out of anything interesting to do on it by then. It's going to go the same way as every other subsystem crowbarred into the game.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:28
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Yoshi-p bring back 2 hour abilities. Do it, you coward.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:28
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Oh, nice! They finally announced more information Blue Mage, huh? Let's just s- 
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Nov 18, 2018 08:29
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Here's the coolest secret about FF14 there is: Eureka is the most massively successful side content system they've ever put out. Those instances still fill up like a year later. Not liking it doesn't make that less true.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:30
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Mordiceius posted:I feel like, with all other classes, they can be trimmed at the edges to fit within the FFXIV class paradigms. Blue Mages have always felt like a very special case. It's felt that way because it's never really worked in the same way 2 times in a row. Sometimes it's use items to get limit breaks, some times it's get hit and defeat to learn spells some tiems it's get hit to learn limit breaks, sometimes it's eat enemies. Hell one game had 2 variants of them one of which was leaving a child in the grasslands and picking them back up to learn entire movesets of monsters. It's a highly inconsistent class and like I said the most typical thing that carries over is the aesthetic. Glagha posted:Let's add moogles as a playable race to the game but moogles traditionally aren't very good fighters so you can't play combat jobs beyond 50. We feel this fits the moogle fantasy in final fantasy. They can get dancer to cap, actually.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:32
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homeless snail posted:Here's the coolest secret about FF14 there is: Eureka is the most massively successful side content system they've ever put out. Those instances still fill up like a year later. Not liking it doesn't make that less true. Eureka sucks rear end, the only reason they fill up is because it's a place to grind mindlessly toward a goal and MMO players are pretty good about just plugging on ahead so long as they have a carrot to follow.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:32
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Glagha posted:Eureka sucks rear end, the only reason they fill up is because it's a place to grind mindlessly toward a goal and MMO players are pretty good about just plugging on ahead so long as they have a carrot to follow.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:33
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homeless snail posted:Yeah, and its super popular! I mean I don't think anyone was arguing people wouldn't play Blue mage even if the content was bad.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:34
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People play Everquest to this day. There's no level of garbage MMO design that people won't play so long as you set the skinner box up right.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:36
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homeless snail posted:In what world does everyone level capping BLU and playing it for two whole months not make it a successful piece of side content, especially by FF14 standards? I bet they'd be super happy about that. I was being very generous in my estimate. This assumes the content for that solo BLU thing will be relatively extensive. This also assumes they didn't make grinding out BLU a hellish and miserable experience with something like absurd 1% learn rates. Depending how things shake out, that estimate could be more like a week or two (and I think that's the more realistic outcome). In any case, the fact it's basically put in the solo shame corner does reduce the impact of basically ceasing to exist after some period of time between a week to two months, unlike, say, the eventual death of Eureka causing some serious problems for future people wanting to check out the content or get things from there. Can't say I approve of treating a playable class as side content though, it's not really sufficiently different to actual have any novelty value. Edit: You only have to actually step into Eureka and listen to people for a bit to realize that the majority of people there absolutely hate it and are only doing it begrudgingly because something they want has been locked behind it, generally glamor items. Obligatum VII fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 08:41
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Glagha posted:People play Everquest to this day. There's no level of garbage MMO design that people won't play so long as you set the skinner box up right.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:41
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Obligatum VII posted:I was being very generous in my estimate. This assumes the content for that solo BLU thing will be relatively extensive. This also assumes they didn't make grinding out BLU a hellish and miserable experience with something like absurd 1% learn rates. Depending how things shake out, that estimate could be more like a week or two (and I think that's the more realistic outcome). At the same time, almost every piece of MMO side content that doesn't allow you to somehow get relevant rewards has died far, far faster than Eureka. Garrisons, Moblin Maze Mongers, Pankration, Monstrosity, Chocobo Digging, Ballista and Brenner in XI, Verminion, Chocobo Racing in XIV. Most of these things see no activity. Diversions last very little time unless they have rewards people want. Hell who would've done the sightseeing log if it didn't give you a minion? Feels like a massive waste of dev time to be honest.
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Nov 18, 2018 08:53
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Captain Oblivious posted:I wanna see Geomancer in this system. Learn spells from going to particular places under particular weather conditions etc etc. Unlock Geomancer abilities via sightseeing log completion. Unlock Puppetmaster abilities via collecting minions. I guess that means we know how Dancer is going to work.
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Nov 18, 2018 09:02
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Thundarr posted:
Level Dancer by collecting creepy PMs in major cities? Oh god so this is why they added Balmung sex tourism.
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Nov 18, 2018 09:03
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lightrook posted:Level Dancer by collecting creepy PMs in major cities?
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Nov 18, 2018 09:04
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I haven't finished the Sightseeing log but I did it for some XP and paintings to put in housing  MarquiseMindfang posted:Feels like a massive waste of dev time to be honest. I'd argue that the only real waste of Dev time was the second Diadem (and by extension every Eureka after Anemos) because it wasn't another experiment, but a refinement of something that failed and continued to fail. (Eureka technically isn't a failure but it has been a massive dev time drain.) You experiment, you fail, you keep experimenting until you succeed or fail so hard that you can't experiment anymore. It's how experimentation works. Those experiments aren't inherently a waste because of the experience gained while attempting them.
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Nov 18, 2018 09:12
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They should have at least thrown BLU into some kind of low level roulette or something. 100% they are going to run into the issue where people end up missing the "BLU Train" or some poo poo, and their only option for leveling is grinding monsters/FATES, or getting lucky that someone wants to willingly go into Satasha or something, and never actually fully level the class.
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Nov 18, 2018 09:25
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BLU not having access to matchmaking is fine by me since they're adding trusts too so we can probably just summon fufulupa and others to party with us anyway to do duties
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Nov 18, 2018 09:31
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MechaX posted:They should have at least thrown BLU into some kind of low level roulette or something. they said leveling by killing monsters in the field is the optimal way to level the class and they get for more xp from it
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Nov 18, 2018 09:33
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It's a drat shame that they didn't stream both of the Fan Fest concerts. They were both amazing. Bonus: If you were idling in Fanfest Kugane during the Saturday concert, you got to hang out with SQEX staff, including Foxclon, Mr. Atma and the world first Blue Mage cosplayer.  I have some video, but I'm genuinely afraid that Matsuda will burst through my hotel door and fight me if I post it. Eh, they're on Twitch anyway. Not as good, but it'll do. Rock concert: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/337372499 Varance fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 09:33
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i skipped like six pages of myopic shrieking but did they confirm BLU can just pre-made stuff?
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Nov 18, 2018 10:04
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:i skipped like six pages of myopic shrieking but did they confirm BLU can just pre-made stuff? Yes, it's only matchmaking (and duty roulettes) that are disabled for them.
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Nov 18, 2018 10:15
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Gloomy Rube posted:Yes, it's only matchmaking (and duty roulettes) that are disabled for them. And deep dungeons. And pvp if anyone cares about that. And 'other duties may not be accessible to blue mages'. Deep dungeons probably being one of the oddest ones since hyping it as the solo POTD class might have helped get some more people doing it.
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Nov 18, 2018 10:42
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Hildebrand is going to become a blu mage and it's going to be an amazing set of solo content and we have 1+ other fun new jobs which actually can do multilayer content and everything will be good
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Nov 18, 2018 11:00
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Looking forward to this thread in couple of weeks once majority are done crying about not getting to queue for trial roulette on their BLU, and we can instead speculate into the one most important question for the expansion; "Will Dancer be one of the new jobs and will it be a kickass melee based healer?" Speculating on the fact that MP and TP now are merged, SE could finally take a more unique twist on the healer role which could be real awesome if done right. Hell I'd be getting straight on to maining healer from there on out if it came true, who could resist kicking baddies in the face with fancy dancin moves and then striking sick poses to heal your allies. Their LB3 could be lifted straight out of a Lord of the dance finale!
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Nov 18, 2018 11:03
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There will never be a melee healer. Stop asking for it.
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Nov 18, 2018 11:04
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