|
VitalSigns posted:P sure we pay Pakistan to murder and torture for us, champ fond memories of fulchrum explaining the reason obama not closing gitmo was good was that the rent on Guantanamo Bay is super low, you guys
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 17:51 |
|
|
AlBorlantern Corps posted:Liberals argue everything is a distraction from Russia and the left is not saying NOT to keep pursuing that, but are saying that will not win elections, you have to have wide appeal progressive policy no matter how corrupt it illegal the Republicans are i'm having a hard time even figuring out who y'all are arguing against, like, Kirkman and other mentally ill people on twitter who blame Susan Sarandon and Jill Stein for conspiring with Putin to make Hillary lose? like most polls seem to suggest people who vote (D) broadly support the Mueller probe, but also that it's not high on their priority list in comparison to life-or-death policy and rights issues. Which is good, because essentially no Democrat in 2018 ran on the Mueller probe! practically the entire party made healthcare the defining issue of 2018 and the core issue Democrats are promising to address as soon as they get control of the House is voting rights - there's no reason at all to think that the Mueller probe is distracting from larger policy problems people care about
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:50
|
|
|
Munkeymon posted:Oh, well that's stilly: everyone knows it Merkle and i can mock them for their bad opinions, and that should just be the end of it right? no need to turn it into a silly "well would you vote for musollini over hitler" slapfight right? cause for some reason some people felt the need to do just that cause I don't like macron
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:51
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:To be perfectly honest, I think the Russian investigation is going to get lost in the noise of the Democratic House's investigations if they follow through on that, the entire point of the Russian investigation was that it was the one thing the Republicans allowed to go through because they thought it would be least damaging. Absolutely lol if you think Trump isn't in bed with the Russian mob and probably through them the FSB, but it's less a grand Tom Clancy conspiracy and more like Burn After Reading. there's no way trump is involved in an elaborate sophisticated conspiracy. it's just going to be blatant grift, that's all he can handle. he has the entire presidency at his power and the biggest he can think is charging the secret service for hotel rooms.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:51
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the argument tends to be "it's a political dead end." we should absolutely keep investigating him, because it causes him pain and fear, and that is both cool and good. but it's absolutely a master's tools/master's house situation. like, imagine that the dream situation of a Jen Kirkman pans out. Mueller reveals that Trump and Putin were holding hands at the moment Trump threw the "steal the election for me" lever. what the gently caress do they expect to happen next. to whip out the good old #resistance shibboleth: "will that solve racism?" They hope that the Republicans will strike a deal with us and vote to impeach and convict in exchange for us electing a serious pro-America conservative like Paul Ryan or Mitt Romney as Speaker so he can take over the presidency after the Russian stooges are removed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:51
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:master's tools/master's house situation. This is important, in that the Mueller investigation and surrounding metanarrative has been used to legitimize and whitewash garbage Bush-era cast offs like Kristol and Boot, and even Robert "former FBI head/Republican cop" Mueller into somehow being heroes of liberals and the left. I hope that they make Trump look terrible, because he's terrible, but it won't be what ends his presidency.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:51
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:I care about the Russia investigation because I want Russian trolls to stop making GBS threads up all the internet forums. I'll have you know that my posting does not correspond to Moscow business hours  Or was it St. Petersburg? Condiv posted:and i can mock them for their bad opinions, and that should just be the end of it right? no need to turn it into a silly "well would you vote for musollini over hitler" slapfight right? cause for some reason some people felt the need to do just that cause I don't like macron Yeah, fair, but there's also a difference between "Leader of the World" and "Leader of the Free World" and words you pick do matter. Unless you're POTUS right now 
Munkeymon fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Nov 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:52
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:fond memories of fulchrum explaining the reason obama not closing gitmo was good was that the rent on Guantanamo Bay is super low, you guys The rent that we don't even pay because Cuba refuses to cash the checks in protest, but Cuba doesn't want Guantanamo back guys do you want Obama to invade and force them to accept the removal of an imperialist army base on their territory didn't think so leftists
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:52
|
|
|
The next WH correspondents dinner is not going to have a comedian this year, because they're big babies. Instead, it'll be hosted by Ron Chernow, so it's sure to be a thrilling night!
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:53
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:This is important, in that the Mueller investigation and surrounding metanarrative has been used to legitimize and whitewash garbage Bush-era cast offs like Kristol and Boot, and even Robert "former FBI head/Republican cop" Mueller into somehow being heroes of liberals and the left. I hope that they make Trump look terrible, because he's terrible, but it won't be what ends his presidency. yea the eagerness of the ~resistance~ to go full "THE FBI ARE HEROES SIR" was real depressing to watch but not surprising.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:53
|
|
|
Stexils posted:there's no way trump is involved in an elaborate sophisticated conspiracy. it's just going to be blatant grift, that's all he can handle. he has the entire presidency at his power and the biggest he can think is charging the secret service for hotel rooms. lmao this is true. VitalSigns posted:The rent that we don't even pay because Cuba refuses to cash the checks in protest, but Cuba doesn't want Guantanamo back guys do you want Obama to invade and force them to accept the removal of an imperialist army base on their territory didn't think so leftists Does Gitmo serve any purpose other than torture camp/black site? Is it still a naval base?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:53
|
|
|
Munkeymon posted:Oh, well that's stilly: everyone knows it Merkle sort of like how neera wasn't actually advocating blood for oil, she was, uh, doing a prank
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:54
|
|
|
Stexils posted:there's no way trump is involved in an elaborate sophisticated conspiracy. it's just going to be blatant grift, that's all he can handle. he has the entire presidency at his power and the biggest he can think is charging the secret service for hotel rooms. That and it's not going to be that he's ideologically aligned to Putinism, it's that Russia gave him a lot of money so he owes them a lot of favors.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
Oooh, they finally opened the Ark of the Covenant.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:less a grand Tom Clancy conspiracy and more like Burn After Reading. lol, yeah. Burn After Reading is a weirdly good criticism of the CIA in general, because of how often in their history they've been driven by a bunch of vindictive alcoholics who are more interested in airing out petty personal vendettas and misleading leadership to cover up their own debacles than in actual espionage. That our election was hosed with by a bunch of obviously fake Facebook groups and Twitter bots that knew Fox News would help their narrative along just kind of emphasizes how behind we are.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
Stexils posted:there's no way trump is involved in an elaborate sophisticated conspiracy. it's just going to be blatant grift, that's all he can handle. again, porque no los dos. i think the former existed but trump only cared and was tangentially involved because of the latter
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:56
|
|
|
eke out posted:again, porque no los dos. Based on what we've seen of the Russian misinformation campaigns on social media and Trump's campaign, there was nothing sophisticated going on lol. Russia's interference in the election was the equivalent of "hold my beer, gonna shitpost on Facebook" but contracted out to some dudes in a server farm. Now it's much more likely Trump is up to his eyeballs in Russian mob money (and probably American mob money!) because he's in real estate, and that's what's actually scaring the piss out of him re: Mueller.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 17:58
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:sort of like how neera wasn't actually advocating blood for oil, she was, uh, doing a prank No, not like that at all. e: it's less like advocating violence and more like if we all just sort of agreed to start calling some particular poster The Most Uselessest Whitenoise. One has actual implications to people in the real world and one is just a pointless honorific. Munkeymon fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:00
|
|
|
Stexils posted:there's no way trump is involved in an elaborate sophisticated conspiracy. it's just going to be blatant grift, that's all he can handle. he has the entire presidency at his power and the biggest he can think is charging the secret service for hotel rooms. No was it elaborate and sophisticated, but it was undoubtedly convoluted and chaotic, which kinda looks the same.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:00
|
|
|
Flip Yr Wig posted:No was it elaborate and sophisticated, but it was undoubtedly convoluted and chaotic, which kinda looks the same. The Trump campaign was basically the monkeys on typewriters of espionage, they're so stupid and incompetent that it accidentally looks complicated and deep.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:01
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Based on what we've seen of the Russian misinformation campaigns on social media and Trump's campaign, there was nothing sophisticated going on lol. Russia's interference in the election was the equivalent of "hold my beer, gonna shitpost on Facebook" but contracted out to some dudes in a server farm. i feel like you may have forgotten a certain coordinated media campaign that started leaking harmful emails mere hours after the Access Hollywood tape was released that became the core focus of all media coverage in the final month of the election? and those emails were stolen by Russian military intelligence? also they stole all the Democrats voter modelling data which was shared with republicans in races across the country? (and i personally suspect with Cambridge Analytica and the Trump social media team, but we'll see about that) eke out fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Nov 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:02
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Based on what we've seen of the Russian misinformation campaigns on social media and Trump's campaign, there was nothing sophisticated going on lol. Russia's interference in the election was the equivalent of "hold my beer, gonna shitpost on Facebook" but contracted out to some dudes in a server farm. the hacking of the DNC was A Thing, especially legally but also (imo) in terms of impact on the election like, Literally Digital Watergate
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:02
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:the hacking of the DNC was A Thing, especially legally but also (imo) in terms of impact on the election yeah but that was because one of the head guys clicked on a phishing link in an email. high impact, low sophistication
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:03
|
|
|
eke out posted:i feel like you may have forgotten a certain coordinated media campaign that started leaking harmful emails mere hours after the Access Hollywood tape was released that became the core focus of all media coverage in the final month of the election? I mean, as far as espionage goes I wouldn't call that sophisticated. It's certainly competent, which the FSB actually is unlike Trump, but it's not sophisticated. As noted, they hacked the DNC because the DNC guy clicked on a phising email lol. I am absolutely not saying the FSB is dumb because they aren't, but the Trump campaign is super dumb and their role in the affairs wasn't particularly complicated.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:06
|
|
|
Stexils posted:yeah but that was because one of the head guys clicked on a phishing link in an email. high impact, low sophistication *if what was reported is true, and the real source wasn't Russian assets.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:07
|
|
|
Stexils posted:yeah but that was because one of the head guys clicked on a phishing link in an email. high impact, low sophistication i think the GRU indictments describe a pretty sophisticated operation - the fact that they got in the door by one person clicking on a "google alert! you may be a victim of phishing, please reset your password" email after sending thousands doesn't diminish that
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:07
|
|
|
CascadeBeta posted:If your two options in 2020 were Bloomberg (D) and Trump (R) who do you vote for? If those are my two options then I would carefully balance my choices and choose to hasten our descent into cannibalism and mass death. So obviously Bloomberg.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:08
|
|
|
The only potentially sophisticated part of the Russian conspiracy is the weird DNS traffic between Trump tower and Deutsch Bank or something like that. Everything else has been cheese ball level dumb.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:08
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Based on what we've seen of the Russian misinformation campaigns on social media and Trump's campaign, there was nothing sophisticated going on lol. Russia's interference in the election was the equivalent of "hold my beer, gonna shitpost on Facebook" but contracted out to some dudes in a server farm. That's frankly way too dismissive of the sway a coordinated troll farm can have, especially when you are specifically targeting segments of the population especially vulnerable believing everything they read on the internet as long as it's something that smears the other team and supports their own. Especially when you're talking elections coming down to a single vote in some cases. Although I don't really think investigations are going to fix it, we need a massive and coordinated anti-propaganda campaign which isn't going to happen as long as one side continues to benefit from the propaganda (and the other side cares more about rules-lawyering than pursuing actual solutions to the problem).
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:08
|
|
|
https://thehill.com/policy/international/417405-germany-rescinds-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia-over-khashoggi-killing America cannot possibly stop selling arms to a country that murdered only ONE journalist and American Resident because....well, jobs of course! Any country would do the same...what's that? Germany did what? Well, they are a failing Socialist State so it doesn't matter...
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:09
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:
It's also hugely likely that they were very, very incompetent about virtually every real estate violation they made and every single dirty dollar they got. Like, the loving New Yorker published a piece about how the only way that Jared and Ivanka got away with half of what they did in New York was a corrupt Manhattan DA who was willing to look the other way. They are not used to hiding their dirty laundry.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:09
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:The Trump campaign was basically the monkeys on typewriters of espionage, they're so stupid and incompetent that it accidentally looks complicated and deep. Somewhat ironically, it actually looks a lot like the way certain regressives smeared the Clintons: just keep making poo poo up because it's impossible to debunk it all for everyone and confirmation bias will make it stick with a lot of other regressives.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:09
|
|
|
Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The only potentially sophisticated part of the Russian conspiracy is the weird DNS traffic between Trump tower and Deutsch Bank or something like that. Everything else has been cheese ball level dumb. alfa bank, it's a russian one. doesn't appear to be anything more than usually weird about his deals with Deutch Bank.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:10
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:I mean, as far as espionage goes I wouldn't call that sophisticated. It's certainly competent, which the FSB actually is unlike Trump, but it's not sophisticated. As noted, they hacked the DNC because the DNC guy clicked on a phising email lol. the most compelling defense / argument that the Trump campaign may not in fact have had much involvement is the Trump Jr one that "we were too stupid to understand that the Russians were asking for a quid pro quo so we stormed out of the meeting and never contacted them again, and everything else they did was entirely on their own initiative" obviously it's still an iffy argument even without whatever nonpublic crazy poo poo Mueller has because it relies on Manafort and Roger Stone also not realizing the quid pro quo thing or keeping it to themselves, but it's not completely crazy and I love that it's the Trump campaign itself relying on the We're Too Dumb To Conspire defense
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:10
|
|
|
Also I really don't see why it helps to point out that most of this stuff is "low sophistication" because if it loving works it's just as harmful as methods that are more sophisticated, and potentially much harder to combat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
DrNutt posted:That's frankly way too dismissive of the sway a coordinated troll farm can have, especially when you are specifically targeting segments of the population especially vulnerable believing everything they read on the internet as long as it's something that smears the other team and supports their own. Especially when you're talking elections coming down to a single vote in some cases. I would argue that the problem with this view is that it assumes that Russian propaganda is a significant factor as compared to the more general state of media and especially social media. I also think that your solution is probably too modest and we should actually be looking at whether or not things like Facebook and Twitter constitute public goods that should be regulated or nationalized as such.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:kinda. i mean the country has a big reactionary islamist streak and the only thing keeping that down are heavy handed military republic. so basically its a pick an evil. heavy handed military assholes who kill there rivals/politicians and stir poo poo up in Afghanistan and are bribed by everyone Or Islamist types who burn down schools/shoot students/anyone who isn't the pakistani equivalent of a good Wahhabi and would also have their hand on nuclear arsenal. Look at this gently caress who thinks that Trump, But With Good Publicity(Also, Doctor Who villain!) so soon after Trump Classic wouldn't just be the sort of rapid, precipitous drop that Bush followed by Bush Noir caused.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:I mean, as far as espionage goes I wouldn't call that sophisticated. It's certainly competent, which the FSB actually is unlike Trump, but it's not sophisticated. As noted, they hacked the DNC because the DNC guy clicked on a phising email lol. i don't necessarily even disagree here, but when you respond "Russia's interference in the election was the equivalent of "hold my beer, gonna shitpost on Facebook" but contracted out to some dudes in a server farm." it sounds to me like you're trying to pretend that that was the main way Russia interfered rather than one oligarch's freelance operation
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:12
|
|
|
eke out posted:i don't necessarily even disagree here, but when you respond "Russia's interference in the election was the equivalent of "hold my beer, gonna shitpost on Facebook" but contracted out to some dudes in a server farm." it sounds to me like you're trying to pretend that that was the main way Russia interfered rather than one oligarch's freelance operation You are correct, I forgot about the DNC hack basically. DrNutt posted:Also I really don't see why it helps to point out that most of this stuff is "low sophistication" because if it loving works it's just as harmful as methods that are more sophisticated, and potentially much harder to combat. I think it matters because there's a non-trivial metanarrative that tries to assign a lot more to Russia and Russian intelligence than is actually reasonable and assumes a conspiratorial level of hypercompetence on their part that's not realistic. The average intelligence agency - CIA included, perhaps especially - is not made up of super spies, it's a bunch of jackasses in offices and sometimes some goons that kill people. See also the Saudi killing in Turkey. It sort of matters when you have thousands of actual people who believe AOC is a Russia psyop to undermine the Democrats or whatever because they religiously consume Rachel Maddow pieces.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 17:51 |
|
|
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rising-seas-threaten-norfolk-naval-shipyard-raising-fears-catastrophic-damage-n937396 Welcome to the the Eco-Warrior Resistance United States Navy! Norfolk is seriously worried about climate change because it is one of a handful of yards that can service nuclear subs and aircraft carriers and it is has suffered some serious damage in the past few years from the changing weather patterns. quote:Months earlier, the Federal Emergency Management Agency envisioned what might occur if a similar storm were to strike Norfolk — by driving a computer-simulated Category 4 hurricane directly into the region as part of a national disaster preparedness drill. Their simulated cyclone’s 140-mph winds snapped power lines and cell towers, hobbling the grid and communications, and whipped the Chesapeake Bay into a 12-to-15-foot storm surge, high enough to flood the downtowns of nearby cities. Norfolk is one of TWO facilities that can dry-dock nuclear-powered aircraft carriers FYI. This actually might spur the Pentagon to take climate change more seriously... friendbot2000 fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Nov 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:15
|
|