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MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese
I am going to try out RTS Emerging Strategies because reducing my entire lifting performance to a series of pretty graphs is really appealing to me

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Guyver
Dec 5, 2006

Emerging Strategies is pretty interesting. I'm not as smart as Mike T but as far as I can tell it boils down to "Is it working? Yeah? Good keep going."

If you're at the end of a block and your e1rm is steadily going up on bench keep bench programming the same instead of progressing to the next block with the other lifts.

The idea being the longer you run through the same things that are working and get info on how long they work for the more data you'll have to tailor programming to someone. And it seems to be working for them.

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese
Yeah basically. The downside is you have to do a lot of experimenting to find out what works for you and have to be pretty on the ball with choosing variations and logging, on top of being honest about RPEs

If any of those aren't true a periodized template is probably better

Hardawn
Mar 15, 2004

Don't look at the sun, but rather what it illuminates
College Slice
https://www.instagram.com/p/BqdTaohjf_M/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=g0lafyd89rfx

Dum Cumpster
Sep 12, 2003

*pozes your neghole*

Are 99% of Instagram accounts just reposting other people's content?

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007

Dum Cumpster posted:

Are 99% of Instagram accounts just reposting other people's content?

Yes.

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)
instagram is for reposted funny pictures and BUTTS

turd in my singlet
Jul 5, 2008

DO ALL DA WORK

WIT YA NECK

*heavy metal music playing*
Nap Ghost

Zzulu posted:

instagram is for reposted funny pictures and BUTTS

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bjqz2NwnY70/

Comfy Fleece Sweater
Apr 2, 2013

You see, but you do not observe.

This isn't bad, it's on Netflix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcYmqZphJ5A

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007


It’s pretty good. It’s kinda sad what he’s done to him self though.

He seems like a really nice guy.

Comfy Fleece Sweater
Apr 2, 2013

You see, but you do not observe.

Broken Ronnie Coleman with 8 back surgeries is still more buff than I ever will be

Chief McHeath
Apr 23, 2002

Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:

Broken Ronnie Coleman with 8 back surgeries is still more buff than I ever will be

Have you considered dat dere cell tech?

feelix
Nov 27, 2016
THE ONLY EXERCISE I AM UNFAMILIAR WITH IS EXERCISING MY ABILITY TO MAKE A POST PEOPLE WANT TO READ

MarcusSA posted:

He seems like a really nice guy.

He worked as a cop but also made a career in which illegal drugs were required

nooneofconsequence
Oct 30, 2012

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.

feelix posted:

He worked as a cop but also made a career in which illegal drugs were required

I'm not seeing the contradiction.

feelix
Nov 27, 2016
THE ONLY EXERCISE I AM UNFAMILIAR WITH IS EXERCISING MY ABILITY TO MAKE A POST PEOPLE WANT TO READ

nooneofconsequence posted:

I'm not seeing the contradiction.

Ok I guess I should have just pointed out that he was a cop

a dingus
Mar 22, 2008

Rhetorical questions only
Fun Shoe

feelix posted:

Ok I guess I should have just pointed out that he was a cop

Seems like normal to me, you deal with a lot of illegal drugs as a cop.

Comfy Fleece Sweater
Apr 2, 2013

You see, but you do not observe.

What’s he gonna do, arrest himself? Moran

LordoftheScheisse
Jan 16, 2016
Had a baby 7 months ago. Haven't lifted poo poo since. Fiancee was making fun of my babby arms so I gymmed it a couple of days back. Did squats for the first time since baby. Can't walk. Who's laughing now?

Dum Cumpster
Sep 12, 2003

*pozes your neghole*
Hey it was 7 months for me too! Tell your fiancee she has to push you around in the stroller since she did this to you.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth
Strained an adductor while sleeping. Genuinely thought it was just a dream, but now it's a bit sore so having to skip leg day (oh noooo).

dads friend steve
Dec 24, 2004

sassassin posted:

having to skip leg day

:thunk:

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth
Better a day off than 3-12 months out when I properly pull/tear something again.

The "no pain no gain" people are all juicing and have mental problems. Take care of yourselves.

Comfy Fleece Sweater
Apr 2, 2013

You see, but you do not observe.

I like watching minimum salary steroid peddling people at the gym going all out on their sets because Ronnie did it no pain no gain train insane or stay the same oh drat how much does rehab cost???

turd in my singlet
Jul 5, 2008

DO ALL DA WORK

WIT YA NECK

*heavy metal music playing*
Nap Ghost

sassassin posted:

Strained an adductor while sleeping.

:thunk:

ElectricSheep
Jan 14, 2006

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.
Ok so since we're talking injuries and their care, I have the opportunity to have what I believe to be a possible shoulder impingement looked at. It's not causing me serious pain but it is definitely impeding my progress and gets sore during and right after shoulder work.

I've never had any major or chronic injury so I'm just asking here on a whim- are there any review aggregator websites I could use outside of the usual stuff to get a line on a good, competent doctor?

If you're wondering why I wouldn't just ask my GP it's because he's checking out in his old age, his office has turned to poo poo and I'm getting ready to switch over. He's more about money and selling botox, B12 weight loss programs, and other poo poo; I wouldn't trust his recommendations.

My insurance doesn't need a referral for specialists, so I'm guessing I'd look for an orthopedist. If that's the case, I'd hope they'd also have knowledge of a good physical therapist or, if need be, a surgeon (really hope not).

ElectricSheep fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Nov 23, 2018

Fallows
Jan 20, 2005

If he waits long enough he can use his accrued interest from his savings to bring his negative checking balance back into the black.
Good news is if you see an ortho he's a surgeon too!

turd in my singlet
Jul 5, 2008

DO ALL DA WORK

WIT YA NECK

*heavy metal music playing*
Nap Ghost
The science of shoulder impingement. It's not what you think.

https://www.barbellmedicine.com/shoulderimpingement/

Drunk Driver Dad
Feb 18, 2005
Every time I've strained something and taken a few days off, it just made it last longer. I'd maybe take the 1 day but then go back and just go really really light, get the blood and poo poo pumping.

Drunk Driver Dad
Feb 18, 2005

Killing Loaf posted:

The science of shoulder impingement. It's not what you think.

https://www.barbellmedicine.com/shoulderimpingement/

"Speaking of fear-avoidance, we have no evidence for particular movements being “dangerous” for a shoulder joint. In the rehab or exercise world, we often hear that particular movements such as the upright row should be avoided for “shoulder health”"

Someone needs to tell this to r/fitness, they lose their loving poo poo anytime someone says something like "Hey, try behind the neck presses if you can do them with good form and without pain" Also I for one, had less shoulder pain once I went a bit wider, flared my elbows a bit past 45 and touched around my nipples on the bench press as well.

Also I'm an idiot because I don't fully understand that article. That first guy's little experiment that was poorly ran, that was specifically for some procedure where they were removing some of the bone that they found wasn't effective wasn't it? So are they basically saying "impingement" is real we just don't understand exactly what causes it, that it likely might not be the tendon rubbing against the bones there? I feel like in a lot of ways, medical science has really advanced and in a lot of ways, it really doesn't know poo poo.

Drunk Driver Dad fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Nov 24, 2018

turd in my singlet
Jul 5, 2008

DO ALL DA WORK

WIT YA NECK

*heavy metal music playing*
Nap Ghost
They're saying shoulder impingement was invented 50 years ago by this surgeon who arbitrarily decided that pain in the front of the shoulder combined with having certain anatomical features ("excrescences on the undersurface of the anterior margin of the acromion") meant that the pain was caused by those anatomical features. The fact that people felt better after getting his surgery was his proof that his theory was right and that his surgery was a valuable intervention.

More recently, studies examining the surgery and comparing it to physical therapy or a placebo (sham surgery where the patient goes to the OR and gets cut open but the surgeons don't actually do anything) show that the shoulder decompression surgery offers no real benefit versus just PT or fake surgery. The implication is that the effectiveness of the surgery, which was used proof that the diagnosis is valid, can actually be explained by the placebo effect and regression to the mean. This actually undermines the validity of the entire theory that having the suspect anatamical structure causes pain.

Furthermore, as medical imaging has become more prevalent and cheaper, studies have been done looking at the anatomy of the general population:

quote:

Another major issue is that these supposed “issues” are readily observed in the asymptomatic aging population. A 2014 article, A systematic review and pooled analysis of the prevalence of rotator cuff disease with increasing age, included 30 studies of 6112 shoulders.9 Overall, the prevalence of abnormalities increased from 9.7% in 20 year olds to 62% in 80 year olds and older. The prevalence increased similarly regardless of symptoms or shoulder dislocation.9 The authors conclude:

“The prevalence of rotator cuff abnormalities in asymptomatic people is high enough for degeneration of the rotator cuff to be considered a common aspect of normal human aging and to make it difficult to determine when an abnormality is new (e.g., after a dislocation) or is the cause of symptoms.”

Again, the implication is that the theory that "shoulder impingement" is a disease that causes pain and must be treated with surgery is invalid (it's bogus, in layman's terms).


I would post more about what pain actually is and means but I've got to get ready for work so hth

ElectricSheep
Jan 14, 2006

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.
Thanks for the article - it was really informative. Speaking as someone who's actually conducted scientific research (like once but it still counts dammit), it just sort of reinforces to me how medical research is too often performed from a "top-down" approach.

Even if I took it as nothing more than another perspective of how to approach a rotator injury, I'm still very much of the mindset that I'd rather try to rehab this with the right exercises rather than a surgical approach.

ElectricSheep fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Nov 24, 2018

Drunk Driver Dad
Feb 18, 2005

Killing Loaf posted:

They're saying shoulder impingement was invented 50 years ago by this surgeon who arbitrarily decided that pain in the front of the shoulder combined with having certain anatomical features ("excrescences on the undersurface of the anterior margin of the acromion") meant that the pain was caused by those anatomical features. The fact that people felt better after getting his surgery was his proof that his theory was right and that his surgery was a valuable intervention.

More recently, studies examining the surgery and comparing it to physical therapy or a placebo (sham surgery where the patient goes to the OR and gets cut open but the surgeons don't actually do anything) show that the shoulder decompression surgery offers no real benefit versus just PT or fake surgery. The implication is that the effectiveness of the surgery, which was used proof that the diagnosis is valid, can actually be explained by the placebo effect and regression to the mean. This actually undermines the validity of the entire theory that having the suspect anatamical structure causes pain.

Furthermore, as medical imaging has become more prevalent and cheaper, studies have been done looking at the anatomy of the general population:


Again, the implication is that the theory that "shoulder impingement" is a disease that causes pain and must be treated with surgery is invalid (it's bogus, in layman's terms).


I would post more about what pain actually is and means but I've got to get ready for work so hth

Ah, thanks, that makes sense. I just always assumed it was mostly caused by things such as bad posture from hunching, etc rather than morphological issues.

FizFashizzle
Mar 30, 2005







ElectricSheep posted:

Ok so since we're talking injuries and their care, I have the opportunity to have what I believe to be a possible shoulder impingement looked at. It's not causing me serious pain but it is definitely impeding my progress and gets sore during and right after shoulder work.

I've never had any major or chronic injury so I'm just asking here on a whim- are there any review aggregator websites I could use outside of the usual stuff to get a line on a good, competent doctor?

If you're wondering why I wouldn't just ask my GP it's because he's checking out in his old age, his office has turned to poo poo and I'm getting ready to switch over. He's more about money and selling botox, B12 weight loss programs, and other poo poo; I wouldn't trust his recommendations.

My insurance doesn't need a referral for specialists, so I'm guessing I'd look for an orthopedist. If that's the case, I'd hope they'd also have knowledge of a good physical therapist or, if need be, a surgeon (really hope not).

shoulder impingement isn't a real thing.

Your shoulder discomfort can be caused by any number of things.

If you go to an ortho, it will go like this. They'll first check out your anatomy to see if there's anything glaring, like a dislocated collarbone or something. They will then take you through like five tests to see if you're dramatically weaker on one side than the other. This is generally to suss out a substantial rotator cuff tear. However, since your work out they wouldn't work unless your arm is hanging off the bone. Next they'll send you for some quick radiation, to see if anything pops up on xray. They will tell you you have bone spurs (normal for people that do physical activity) and are pre arthritic in your shoulder capsule (again, everyone).

Then they will tell you they can't really figure out what's wrong until you get some further imaging. This will be a contrast mri generally performed at a different facility, will not be covered under your insurance, and does not guarantee any results that make it worth your while.

If it does, the surgeon will want to cut on you. It'll happen on a wednesday, you'll get a checkup friday, you'll be back to work monday. you will not be able to sweat for two weeks. You'll start PT after a week. You'll not be cleared to lift for 10 weeks.

After that it might be better. who knows.

Or, the doctor will say that cortisone is an option. They don't like this because they can't bill as much, and orthos hate actually doing anything in their clinic, but they will if you ask. This will give you short term relief, is generally considered to be degenerative, and is not a useful long term solution.

Or, you could just go straight to a retail PT. Your insurance MIGHT cover it off the street. They'll take you through a battery of tests, then they'll spend your hours doing a bunch of exercises you could find online, and sometimes they'll stick needles in you. DPTs are basically personal trainers that accept medicare.

The entire orthopedic industry, from DPT to surgeon, is designed for traumatic Injuries and old people with bad hips and medicare. I work at a rehab hospital where the DPTs do great work with people that really need it. And the elderly can have great improvements in quality of life from orthopedic surgery.

But you, the average gym goer, is not getting what the professional athlete gets. You're getting a dime or dozen procedure that may or may not find anything then getting shipped off to a PT who already hates his job for a bunch of exercises you can find anywhere for free and then you'll go back to the gym and start doing the same thing that caused the problem in the first place, if the problem was fixed at all, which it probably wasn't.

Just start doing rotator cuff exercises.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

Drunk Driver Dad posted:

Every time I've strained something and taken a few days off, it just made it last longer. I'd maybe take the 1 day but then go back and just go really really light, get the blood and poo poo pumping.

I drink a lot of coffee for the latter.

Drunk Driver Dad
Feb 18, 2005

FizFashizzle posted:

shoulder impingement isn't a real thing.

Your shoulder discomfort can be caused by any number of things.

If you go to an ortho, it will go like this. They'll first check out your anatomy to see if there's anything glaring, like a dislocated collarbone or something. They will then take you through like five tests to see if you're dramatically weaker on one side than the other. This is generally to suss out a substantial rotator cuff tear. However, since your work out they wouldn't work unless your arm is hanging off the bone. Next they'll send you for some quick radiation, to see if anything pops up on xray. They will tell you you have bone spurs (normal for people that do physical activity) and are pre arthritic in your shoulder capsule (again, everyone).

Then they will tell you they can't really figure out what's wrong until you get some further imaging. This will be a contrast mri generally performed at a different facility, will not be covered under your insurance, and does not guarantee any results that make it worth your while.

If it does, the surgeon will want to cut on you. It'll happen on a wednesday, you'll get a checkup friday, you'll be back to work monday. you will not be able to sweat for two weeks. You'll start PT after a week. You'll not be cleared to lift for 10 weeks.

After that it might be better. who knows.

Or, the doctor will say that cortisone is an option. They don't like this because they can't bill as much, and orthos hate actually doing anything in their clinic, but they will if you ask. This will give you short term relief, is generally considered to be degenerative, and is not a useful long term solution.

Or, you could just go straight to a retail PT. Your insurance MIGHT cover it off the street. They'll take you through a battery of tests, then they'll spend your hours doing a bunch of exercises you could find online, and sometimes they'll stick needles in you. DPTs are basically personal trainers that accept medicare.

The entire orthopedic industry, from DPT to surgeon, is designed for traumatic Injuries and old people with bad hips and medicare. I work at a rehab hospital where the DPTs do great work with people that really need it. And the elderly can have great improvements in quality of life from orthopedic surgery.

But you, the average gym goer, is not getting what the professional athlete gets. You're getting a dime or dozen procedure that may or may not find anything then getting shipped off to a PT who already hates his job for a bunch of exercises you can find anywhere for free and then you'll go back to the gym and start doing the same thing that caused the problem in the first place, if the problem was fixed at all, which it probably wasn't.

Just start doing rotator cuff exercises.

This is kind of my experience when I had pain around my front delts after benching. I went to the doctor, they did some basic tests like checking my shoulder stability,etc took an xray I think and sent me to an ortho for more imaging. The ortho was an rear end in a top hat and told me to focus on work and not the gym(I already work 60 hours a week, seriously gently caress that old dickhead he probably just assumed I was a "lazy millennial") and said it was probably bursitis.

I got a PT referral but never went because I wound up fixing the issue on my own. It was just spots in my front delt that would get pretty tender to the touch/movement pretty soon after any kind of benching. I started doing more pulling, external rotation exercises, lacrosse ball for my pec minor and upper back and a few general stretches and pretty much solved the problem.

Say Nothing
Mar 5, 2013

by FactsAreUseless
Food.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjneYS3LTfE

Hardawn
Mar 15, 2004

Don't look at the sun, but rather what it illuminates
College Slice
https://www.instagram.com/p/BqQUyUenkDl/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1fuoc3itumssu

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)

I wish I was a giant man on steroids so I could consume all the food as well. It is truly the best life

Comfy Fleece Sweater
Apr 2, 2013

You see, but you do not observe.

Errybody wanna eat like a bodybuilder but nobody wanna poop like a bodybuilder

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Zil
Jun 4, 2011

Satanically Summoned Citrus


Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:

Errybody wanna eat like a bodybuilder but nobody wanna poop like a bodybuilder

It seems that it would start to hurt after a while.

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