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DRZ400, hands down
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Nov 25, 2018 01:23
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Having a grom and a DR650, I'd choose the DR every time if I could only have one. Get the DRZ (get the SM!). Then get the grom as a second bike. FWIW, the grom will handle 55mph just fine, and much more than that with some light mods.
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Nov 25, 2018 05:14
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Convince me not to get a 1000cc track bike. I've just sold my 500cc CBR500 track bike project. Sold it because I was getting to a skill level where it was getting frustrating/dangerous to keep getting overtaken by guys with no skill and lots of money on the 300km/h straight at my local track when I'm doing 180 at most, only to overtake them at the first corner and have the same thing happen again in the following lap. I really want to get a 600 supersport, but there just aren't many 600cc track bikes around. However, there are loads of cheap ($4000 AUD) 1000cc track bikes in great nick with lots of goodies. There are also a few GSXR 750s around. I was planning to get a 600 because I really want to focus on my skills rather than a crutch of POWA. Reason I'm hesitant to get a 1000cc: I want to ride safely and the lack of traction control on mid-2000 superbikes scares me. My daily ride is a VFR so I don't think the power will scare me, but I don't want to stack it now that I have a little girl! Also I get the impression they go through a lot of tyres, and I'd like to keep costs down if I can. Help?
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Dec 1, 2018 01:26
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I think most of your 1000 worries are also present in the 600 considering most 1000s are just bigger engines crammed into a 600 chassis. The HP to weight ratio on a 600 isnt actually that far off what a 1000 is. They are both crazy fast in all the same ways, just more so in the 1000. You can still lose traction on a 600 with poor throttle control, its not solely a 1000 problem. Get it if its a good value where you are. The 400c you are missing out on doesnt make a 600 40% safer somehow. If you really want to you can add traction control with a aftermarket module along with fuel mapping and quickshifter. I have no personal experience with it, but people better than me use it. https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/bazzaz-z-fi-tc-traction-control-system Fauxtool fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Dec 1, 2018 |
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Dec 1, 2018 02:19
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Get the gsxr750 because they are beautiful unicorns still persevering in a world too stupid to realize their amazingness
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Dec 1, 2018 04:18
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Barnsy posted:Convince me not to get a 1000cc track bike. The following is my perspective, and it might differ from some of the other track rats on this forum (I don't track and only ride canyons). Coming from someone who rides fairly aggressively for street on a non-electronically aided 600 and doesn't have a ton of saddle time on their bigger brothers, a 600 is a fuckton more forgiving in the throttle department due to the torque difference alone. I can ride like an idiot in regards to the throttle, even at higher lean angles and when exiting corners, than if I were on a 1000. Yes the rear end will get squirrelly. Yes you will break traction. But very rarely do I feel like I'm going to snap the rear end off of throttle alone (it's usually too high of speed and lean angle coming into/through a corner and pushing the corner than it is overdriving out of one). The 600s have absolutely no torque unless you are ringing the piss out of them, and even then its night and day difference in comparison to a 1000. The 1000 is going to buck you 100% of the time in situations where you can absolutely get away with being liberal and a carefree idiot on a 600. They are also light as a feather and insanely flick-able. Those points alone make the 600 a better bike, for me, than a 1000. Again, take this with a grain of salt, but if you're wanting to focus on increasing your track skill I'd think the 600 would better facilitate you learning to maintain your corner speed around a track. The 600s will be the most cramped, more so than the 500. Also I'm with Jim. Shop for a 750. tjones fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Dec 1, 2018 |
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Dec 1, 2018 04:57
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Fauxtool posted:I think most of your 1000 worries are also present in the 600 considering most 1000s are just bigger engines crammed into a 600 chassis. The HP to weight ratio on a 600 isnt actually that far off what a 1000 is. They are both crazy fast in all the same ways, just more so in the 1000. The R6, ready to ride, as per PB's scales, weighs 191.4kg. The R1 weighs 201kg. Their stripped 08 CBR1000RR weighs 195.6kg, 2017 CBR1000RR weighs 197kg, Panigale V4S weighs 201kg. Minus their project bike, these are all street bikes in stock factory trim. Power figures are 112 hp on the R6, and the literbikes start at 180hp and go up to 202hp at the wheel for things like the new Panigale V4S. Their modified (light engine work) 08 CBR makes 172hp. You trade about 20 pounds for around 70-90hp. You lose traction on a 600, and if you're being smooth with the throttle, it's not gonna snap hard on you, it'll unload, start to slide, and likely, if you're riding it properly, it'll spin up RPM-wise out of the powerband and sorta bring itself back into line. You're unlikely to break traction in a meaningful way if you're out of the powerband unless you're getting really stupid, thanks to how sticky modern tires are on a track surface. You can absolutely still highside one, but chance are, you weren't using good technique and weren't listening to the bike warning you you were getting in over your head. The cool thing about modern literbikes is if you wanna slide them around, if you wanna rip wheelies out of every corner on the track, even the 4th gear, 110mph ones, you can totally do that. But they're hardly good bikes for learning skilled riding on, because you're gonna overbrake into every corner, bring the bike to a stop, turn it, and then fire it back out constantly, and when you get good drive out of a corner, you're gonna see a difference of upwards of 10mph on the next corner entrance, which is gonna throw everything off. The 600s are great for learning the skills of optimizing line choice, gear choice, balancing lean angle / line / throttle application. Getting on a literbike is also gonna force you to learn to manage significantly more braking/acceleration force, which will make you more tired, force you to work on more skills at higher speeds, and in general slow down your progression. Modern literbikes with TC are insanely fun to ride though, because they're incredibly low stress. Just grip it and rip it and let the electronics sort you out. Sure, you'll go slower than you could, but you'll have a blast doing it. A nicely built GSX-R750 is a good compromise bike, because you get a wider spread of power, it'll give you a bit more grunt if you end up a gear too low, and it'll be more forgiving in terms of absolute gearing if you're really starting to optimize to a certain track as you'll usually be able to maintain most of your drive even if you're not exactly geared correctly for a track. Plus there's a billion spares out there, the chassis is literally the 600 chassis, it's pretty comfortable for a supersport, and it's a very, very nice bike to ride. I loved my GSX-R600 trackbike, if I hadn't been racing, I would have used a 750 as a cheater trackbike. Also, unlike a lot of other bikes, you can take forks and suspension parts / spares from 600s, 750s, and sometimes the 1000s. Plus there's an awesome spares market for them as a result of the number of bros who throw them down the road. If you wanna throw money at the problem, you can buy a new R6 which now has TC. But the GSX-R is a better, much more forgiving platform to learn on - R6s are peaky, demand appropriate gearing, and are insanely precise, which is great if you've already got great bike control, but if you're still trying to build that skillset at track speed / skill, aren't the most forgiving. Basically, a lot of words to say: Get a GSX-R750, look for one with a stock engine, aftermarket suspension, a decat pipe and quickshifter. Do not buy a bike with a built engine unless it comes with a spare and you're comfortable swapping the engines and paying to have good tuning done - almost all engine builds are gonna give up a shitload of reliability for no benefit for a non-racer. You'll find that race engine builds turn your 750 into something closer to a 600 in terms of power delivery, which isn't a selling point - you want a wide, flexible powerband, not one that's tuned for a rider who only ever runs in the top 2.5k RPM. The majority of engine builders / tuners / their customers don't understand that predictable delivery is what gives speed, and peak HP numbers are just dickwaving, so you end up with massive, unusable HP numbers, that blow up constantly.
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Dec 1, 2018 22:57
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Z3n posted:The R6, ready to ride, as per PB's scales, weighs 191.4kg. The R1 weighs 201kg. Their stripped 08 CBR1000RR weighs 195.6kg, 2017 CBR1000RR weighs 197kg, Panigale V4S weighs 201kg. Minus their project bike, these are all street bikes in stock factory trim. Power figures are 112 hp on the R6, and the literbikes start at 180hp and go up to 202hp at the wheel for things like the new Panigale V4S. Their modified (light engine work) 08 CBR makes 172hp. You trade about 20 pounds for around 70-90hp. You lose traction on a 600, and if you're being smooth with the throttle, it's not gonna snap hard on you, it'll unload, start to slide, and likely, if you're riding it properly, it'll spin up RPM-wise out of the powerband and sorta bring itself back into line. You're unlikely to break traction in a meaningful way if you're out of the powerband unless you're getting really stupid, thanks to how sticky modern tires are on a track surface. You can absolutely still highside one, but chance are, you weren't using good technique and weren't listening to the bike warning you you were getting in over your head. Thanks Zen, that basically confirms what I was thinking. I was aiming for a GSXR 600 or 750 because the aftermarket is so huge and the parts are so swappable between frames. I'm 6'4 and 105kg so a torquier 750 might make more sense than a 600 for my frame, but I'll be open to either. I'll just keep an eye out for one in good nick with the basic track upgrades. Is there a version/year that I should avoid? There are a few 2005ish ones around, but the 2006-2007 and upwards looks like a big upgrade.
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Dec 2, 2018 06:46
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Z3n posted:The R6, ready to ride, as per PB's scales, weighs 191.4kg. The R1 weighs 201kg. Their stripped 08 CBR1000RR weighs 195.6kg, 2017 CBR1000RR weighs 197kg, Panigale V4S weighs 201kg. Minus their project bike, these are all street bikes in stock factory trim. Power figures are 112 hp on the R6, and the literbikes start at 180hp and go up to 202hp at the wheel for things like the new Panigale V4S. Their modified (light engine work) 08 CBR makes 172hp. What a great post. I only have experience of my current litre bike, but from what I read the mid-2000s litre sports bikes also massively differ from each owin power delivery, is that right? In that a 2004 CBR1000 would be a way different proposition from a R1 or ZX10R. Having had a CBR600RR and used R6 and GSXR600 while they were all the same class they were very different to ride.
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Dec 2, 2018 10:25
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They have very different power deliveries but also very different chassis feel and setup, they all have their own character and style to them despite being seemingly similar on paper.
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Dec 2, 2018 19:39
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Purely academic question since I don't plan on buying a new bike for a year or two, but all this talk of 600s touches upon something I was going to ask the forums anyway. I have a 2007 Daytona 675 and was thinking of replacing it with a newer 675 in the future, but now I'm not sure I want to buy a discontinued model because of issues with parts and aftermarket support (though I realize there will be an aftermarket long after there aren't new versions of the bike). If I wanted to stay in the 600s, it looks like my two choices are what everyone is talking about, R6 or GSX-R600. How does the Ninja ZX-6R fit in there? Anything else I'm missing? Are either of R6 or GSX-R600 closer to the Daytona 675 than the other, or are they all just different in various ways?
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Dec 3, 2018 07:34
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I think the gsxr750 could work too. It’s a 600 frame. Not sure if you want to stick with the 600’s for their size, or their power delivery.
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Dec 3, 2018 22:35
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MomJeans420 posted:Purely academic question since I don't plan on buying a new bike for a year or two, but all this talk of 600s touches upon something I was going to ask the forums anyway. I have a 2007 Daytona 675 and was thinking of replacing it with a newer 675 in the future, but now I'm not sure I want to buy a discontinued model because of issues with parts and aftermarket support (though I realize there will be an aftermarket long after there aren't new versions of the bike). If I wanted to stay in the 600s, it looks like my two choices are what everyone is talking about, R6 or GSX-R600. How does the Ninja ZX-6R fit in there? Anything else I'm missing? Are either of R6 or GSX-R600 closer to the Daytona 675 than the other, or are they all just different in various ways? It depends on what you want to do with it. The ZX6R and the Honda tend to be the better streetbikes, but the 600 market tends to be all about the numbers and theoretical track performance and much less about usability. The 675 is sort of a weird bike, it's got this bizzaro tight ratio gearbox, but a really nice spread of power, and it's really quick handling. Probably closest to the R6 in terms of chassis, closest to the ZX6R in terms of motor thanks to the cheater ccs on the 636 engines. Kawasaki basically sacrificed race classification for a bit more flexibility in the motor. The bits I say down below about literbikes generally apply to the 600s as well, with the exception of the R6, which is a monster trackbike and has been the most competitive bike out there with only cosmetic updates only since 06 (and recently, TC). If you're going majority track, I'd find a nice track prepped R6, if you're doing street, whatever you can find the best deal on and blows your skirt up the most between the GSX-R/ZX6R/CBR/Daytona, noting that if you're looking 2013+ the ZX6Rs got TC. I'm quite likely to own a track prepped 2013 ZX6R soon, so we'll see what the TC is like on that thing. Barnsy posted:Thanks Zen, that basically confirms what I was thinking. I was aiming for a GSXR 600 or 750 because the aftermarket is so huge and the parts are so swappable between frames. Do not buy an 05 - the most popular run of the bike was 06-10, so if you want access to the long, wide yardsale of GSX-R parts, you want an 06 and up. Some parts may still be compatible later on with the 2011+ models as well. knox_harrington posted:What a great post. I only have experience of my current litre bike, but from what I read the mid-2000s litre sports bikes also massively differ from each owin power delivery, is that right? In that a 2004 CBR1000 would be a way different proposition from a R1 or ZX10R. Yeah, they all had personality in how they'd get around a track. Kawasakis had ballistic engines and constantly acted like they wanted to kill you, Hondas were pretty streetable / sane / accessible, Yamahas were good looking but not all that great (and then they got the crossplanes, and were shittier looking but way better sounding), and Suzuki was the all arounder bro bike of choice. Then BMW and Aprilia showed up, the electronic wars kicked off, and poo poo got legit real fast, and minus Yamaha (and to a lesser degree, kawasaki), everyone's still playing catch up. They're all very fun and interesting bikes, but given that you can get an S1000RR that'll still blow your pants off for pretty cheap these days, the biggest thing you should be looking for is "what's the best electronics package I can get", because you'll go faster, safer, and have more fun.
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Dec 4, 2018 06:03
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Sticking to the 600s both for their size and because I don't feel the need for more power at this time. Thanks for all the info z3n, is the R6 worse on the street than the 675? I've wanted a Ninja since I played Road Rash, but it seems like no one treats them in the same class as the R6/GSXRs. I'm definitely into the idea of TC + ABS, I really wish my current bike had ABS. Then I start searching and even the S1000RRs are getting down in price on CL. I'm surprised to see a 2013 S1000RR HP4 for $11.5k, I thought they'd be more than that.
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Dec 5, 2018 03:24
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hope your name is kyle
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Dec 6, 2018 00:55
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MomJeans420 posted:Sticking to the 600s both for their size and because I don't feel the need for more power at this time. Thanks for all the info z3n, is the R6 worse on the street than the 675? I've wanted a Ninja since I played Road Rash, but it seems like no one treats them in the same class as the R6/GSXRs. I'm definitely into the idea of TC + ABS, I really wish my current bike had ABS. dont forget to consider insurance cost unless you are one of those extra cool guys who ride sportbikes with liability coverage only. Certain bikes like every ducati can have way higher rates than similar bikes. I would not be surprised if the s1000rr was significantly higher than other 1000s
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Dec 6, 2018 05:00
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Fauxtool posted:dont forget to consider insurance cost unless you are one of those extra cool guys who ride sportbikes with liability coverage only. Certain bikes like every ducati can have way higher rates than similar bikes. I would not be surprised if the s1000rr was significantly higher than other 1000s I've always found it to be opposite - exotica tends to be cheaper because the average Gixxer owner and the average Ducati owner have very different opinions about wheelying their bikes into a bus stop.
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Dec 6, 2018 07:14
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I've always found it to be opposite - exotica tends to be cheaper because the average Gixxer owner and the average Ducati owner have very different opinions about wheelying their bikes into a bus stop. here in california which is where i believe momjeans is located im basing based it on the quotes i have gotten. A tuono costs $300 more a year than a fz-07 at around $700 and a 1200 monster is 3 times more around $3000, same cost to insure as an r6. General insurance statistics worldwide seems to confirm this at least in germany UK and Canada. Everyone is different and you may be an outlier, but i have never seen a case where the ducati was cheaper than the comparable bikes in the class. Exotica can be cheaper cars too but the large insurance companies like geico with a large sample size of claims will gouge on ducati insurance The average gixxer owner buys liability only and thusly shouldnt have much influence on the premiums of other gixxers considering they cant make claims when they wheelie into a curb. The ducati owner will make a claim when their baby gets tipped over at the coffee shop and it scratches $2k in carbon fiber
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Dec 6, 2018 08:12
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$3000 a year is more than my Focus RS and Stinger GT COMBINED. That's $90k worth of car. Is the average Monster owner totaling it out every 5 years or what?
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Dec 6, 2018 18:04
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right arm posted:hope your name is kyle I don't get this reference, was that yammienoob's (sp?) real name? I have 2.5 years and 10k miles on my Daytona and I haven't gone head first into a Porsche (yet), so I think I'm ok. Fauxtool posted:here in california which is where i believe momjeans is located im basing based it on the quotes i have gotten. A tuono costs $300 more a year than a fz-07 at around $700 and a 1200 monster is 3 times more around $3000, same cost to insure as an r6. Yep, in California I'm at $921/year for a 2007 Daytona 675 with comprehensive, but I have an umbrella policy too so that may let my limits be a bit lower than I would have without an umbrella, I forget. Insurance is something I should check, I don't really mind paying more in insurance, but if it went to $3k a year I'd probably consider looking at different bikes.
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Dec 6, 2018 18:38
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MomJeans420 posted:I don't get this reference, was that yammienoob's (sp?) real name? I have 2.5 years and 10k miles on my Daytona and I haven't gone head first into a Porsche (yet), so I think I'm ok. check the exhaust. I thought it was a backpanther reference at first and i had to check the name. Daytona is one of those outlier bikes with a reasonable insurance rate. Not being a japanese 600 probably helps. It may even be in the same bracket as a street triple. Other bikes with uncommonly super low rates in CA include klr650, WR250R, vfr800, 650 ninja but not the CBR650F somehow and also most of the hyper nakeds like tuono, s1000r, and fz10.
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Dec 6, 2018 19:41
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KillHour posted:$3000 a year is more than my Focus RS and Stinger GT COMBINED. That's $90k worth of car. Is the average Monster owner totaling it out every 5 years or what? Welcome to London.
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Dec 6, 2018 23:26
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So recently the dealership for my Brutale 800 collapsed and the next dealer is a 2,5h drive away. Originally I wanted to upgrade the seat, mount a little windshield and add some package system but that's now all out of the window. Basically I want a naked/travel enduro that's not as high maintenance and offers a little more comfort on longer trips. I like the engine handling, sound and dislike the real hard seat and lack of and windshield that makes 150 on the highway a struggle. I am 1,87 m so smaller bikes won't work The things that came to my mind : Tiger 800 (expensive ) Mt09 xsr 900 tracer 900 (rode the tracer comfy but boring) Xsr 700 (mt07 to small tracer to ugly) Vstrom1000 (prices skyrocketed for those) Gsxs750 not sure about i4 engines All of those except the tiger and Vstrom cost nearly the same used 2 years old 15k km max. Comedy options: shiver 750/900 or dorsoduro same price bracket as above Rode the shiver 750 liked it alot despite being a little chubby for its power, comfy sounds good looks good . But maintenance not sure about that. BMW 800 r 1200r .. went to the dealer for a used 800 he offered me an older 1200r with 40k km for the same money Buuut the Internet says bmws have ducati level of reliability (also I don't feel old enough for a bmw) And while I like v2's alot I can't burn money with a ktm or ducati
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Dec 15, 2018 10:04
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Models that may fall under the travel enduro moniker that may or may not be available in your country. Honda transalp 700 Yamaha super tenere 1200 2013+ models Versys 650 / 1000 Super comedy option Honda x-adventure
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Dec 15, 2018 20:47
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Juergoslav posted:So recently the dealership for my Brutale 800 collapsed and the next dealer is a 2,5h drive away. Africa Twin!!!
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Dec 15, 2018 23:17
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Juergoslav posted:So recently the dealership for my Brutale 800 collapsed and the next dealer is a 2,5h drive away. If you found the Tracer boring the Tiger'll have you asleep, that really is an extremely dull bike to ride. Another option is the Versys 650, but it's not that exciting either. BMW reliability seems hit or miss but if you're concerned about reliability, don't go looking at Aprilias. If you're willing to go a bit older, maybe a 990SMT? Really the Tracer sounds like your best bet, it's not that boring what with its engine.
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Dec 17, 2018 21:32
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Thanks so far pretty much ditched the idea of BMW Triumph Aprilia Haven't thought about an Africa twin. Same price as vstrom and dct sounds nice. And while looking for those some ktm 1050s and 790s popped up. They are real tempting but not sure about the reliability. Truth to be told when testing bikes I rode the Tracer900 and was about to buy it ... but then I was offered a new Brutale for the same money, rode it for and hour and went full "shut up and take my money". The tracer is just boring compared to the mv but I think this will be true for any non liter bike... But i think the mt- 09 family is my safest bet. Juergoslav fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 12:42
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the AT was horribly boring and is what pushed me to get the 1290 SAR. even the 1090R was infinitely more fun. V twins only
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Dec 18, 2018 16:55
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How many hours can you run a RM 65 between rebuilds? I tried googling it and didn't see anything Mix Gas and Eat rear end my friends. (last line of the ad)
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Dec 22, 2018 17:29
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Juergoslav posted:Thanks so far pretty much ditched the idea of BMW Triumph Aprilia Just a heads up, vstroms are boring as gently caress. Don't get me wrong they're great at being a bike, comfy as hell, great mpg, but they're dull as all hell.
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Dec 25, 2018 00:09
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Keket posted:Just a heads up, vstroms are boring as gently caress. Don't get me wrong they're great at being a bike, comfy as hell, great mpg, but they're dull as all hell. Stealing Honda's gimmick, I see
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Dec 25, 2018 00:15
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Only someone who's never ridden an nc700 or versys would ever accuse a Strom of being boring.
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Dec 25, 2018 00:26
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I was planning on finally taking the plunge and buying a bike to learn on this spring, but this popped up and seems way too cheap to my untrained eye. https://buffalo.craigslist.org/mcy/d/fort-erie-2004-yamaha-r6/6773040958.html I know the default advice is to go for something smaller/slower for a first bike, but I'm a pretty big guy (6'3" / 240lbs) so I think something like a 250 would be too small for me to be comfortable on. Is this actually a good deal? Would it be terrible for a beginner?
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Dec 25, 2018 19:03
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KillHour posted:I was planning on finally taking the plunge and buying a bike to learn on this spring, but this popped up and seems way too cheap to my untrained eye. Lmao, I guess we are due for a post like this.
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Dec 25, 2018 19:43
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I take it that's a "Just buy a $500 Ninja you moron."
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Dec 25, 2018 19:47
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KillHour posted:I'm a pretty big guy (6'3" / 240lbs) so I think something like a 250 would be too small for me to be comfortable on. You are not too far off from me, and I find a R3 to be perfectly fine at altitude where it probably only produces 60% of the power at sea level. You can go check out the new riders thread at https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3810736&pagenumber=1 for some alternatives that are not a R6, but yeah, pretty much expect that the responses are going to be "go get a $500 ninja".
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Dec 25, 2018 19:49
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KillHour posted:I take it that's a "Just buy a $500 Ninja you moron." Essentially, yes. I'm your size and a Ninja 250 is still fun to ride for a season or two.
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Dec 25, 2018 19:50
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You would have to be twice that weight or shopping 50cc's for your weight to matter worth a drat, it's one of those things new people obsess over but it's literally insignificant compared to the hundreds of things that actually matter. Please don't buy a 120hp bike for your first one. Are you a car person? This is textbook 'car driver has a go at bikes' stuff thus far: - 120hp 600cc looks manageable - doesn't realize ergos and geometry are super duper important and not just cosmetic - thinks straight line/highway behavior is remotely important in some way Not knocking, just saying you could play bingo with this stuff cause it's always the same sort of thing. Stuff that actually matters in a learner bike: - bike fits your physical size and shape, isn't too big a struggle to shift around carparks, ergos conducive to learning proper technique (aka you don't learn to drive in a Ferrari) - forgiving handling, gentle power delivery, lazy geometry - good driveway whoopsie resistance - cheap parts and easy maintenance
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Dec 25, 2018 21:43
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Literally no one should buy an R6 as a first bike.
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Dec 25, 2018 23:02
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Yeah get that r6, power commander tune it for torque, and put mid pegs and bars on it. Or get a fz6
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Dec 25, 2018 23:48
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