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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:I want to watch liveleak videos of helos with anime girls painted out the side getting blown up I'd much prefer no war and nobody dying, but I also want this.
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Dec 4, 2018 07:15
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Justin Bieber got in trouble a couple years back at the height of his hate-dom for taking a photo at a random Japanese shrine on his tour. It turned out to be the Yasukuni Shrine, which is basically a dedicated memorial to the worst war criminals of the imperial japanese army. In his defense, why do they even have one of those.
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Dec 4, 2018 07:33
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Tunicate posted:Justin Bieber got in trouble a couple years back at the height of his hate-dom for taking a photo at a random Japanese shrine on his tour. It turned out to be the Yasukuni Shrine, which is basically a dedicated memorial to the worst war criminals of the imperial japanese army. because they never went through denazification and they remember ww2 the way the south remembers the civil war
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Dec 4, 2018 07:59
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Funnily enough I had a YouTube ad from the Japanese Prime Minister's office today that seems to be targetted towards Weeboos. Some European dork was rambling on about how some Japanese archery tradition helped him in his business career.
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Dec 4, 2018 08:08
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y'all are gonna be hosed when Japan unleashes M.O.G.U.E.R.A.
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Dec 4, 2018 09:30
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We dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a signal to Russia, not to end the war.
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Dec 4, 2018 10:23
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Grem posted:We dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a signal to Russia, not to end the war. I'd argue that it was all of the above and also "... Well we've just spent more money on this than anything ever in the history of the world plus even more on the plane to drop it so..."
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Dec 4, 2018 10:35
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Carth Dookie posted:I'd argue that it was all of the above and also "... Well we've just spent more money on this than anything ever in the history of the world plus even more on the plane to drop it so..." Oh yea, there can be more than one reason for things.
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Dec 4, 2018 10:47
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Tunicate posted:Justin Bieber got in trouble a couple years back at the height of his hate-dom for taking a photo at a random Japanese shrine on his tour. It turned out to be the Yasukuni Shrine, which is basically a dedicated memorial to the worst war criminals of the imperial japanese army. So the sitting Japanese prime minister can lay wreaths and light incense there once a year. Heritagenothate.jpg.txt
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Dec 4, 2018 11:33
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Grem posted:We dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a signal to Russia, not to end the war. Not really.
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Dec 4, 2018 11:39
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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:they remember ww2 the way the south remembers the civil war Carth Dookie posted:I'd argue that it was all of the above and also "... Well we've just spent more money on this than anything ever in the history of the world plus even more on the plane to drop it so..."
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Dec 4, 2018 13:34
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that's what he said
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Dec 4, 2018 15:27
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my kinda ape posted:That’s like every anime because Japan was never truly forced to come to terms with its actions during WWII. I gotta read that. Miller was one of my professors in college before he got into the WWII stuff. Great classes.
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Dec 4, 2018 15:40
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evil_bunnY posted:this is such a perfect analogy Really? Not doubting this but I'd love to read some sourcing because that sounds kind of nuts that the B-29 cost that much.
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Dec 4, 2018 15:51
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Itchy_Grundle posted:I gotta read that. Miller was one of my professors in college before he got into the WWII stuff. Great classes. It’s really good. It's an overall narrative of the whole war but built on a base of personal accounts from people on the ground (or in the air). So he'll explain the context behind a battle and then read someone's account of their experience. It doesn't pull any punches for any side either.
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Dec 4, 2018 16:30
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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:Japan is an awful country and their warhawks have been absolutely spoiling for a fight the past 10 years. I want them to get in a shooting war with someone and get their dicks stomped on so loving hard. I want to watch liveleak videos of helos with anime girls painted out the side getting blown up Pretty sure that would have the opposite effect. They'd go "See, this is why we need more military poo poo"
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Dec 4, 2018 16:49
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Tunicate posted:Justin Bieber got in trouble a couple years back at the height of his hate-dom for taking a photo at a random Japanese shrine on his tour. It turned out to be the Yasukuni Shrine, which is basically a dedicated memorial to the worst war criminals of the imperial japanese army. They don't have one. It's a shrine dedicated to all 2,466,532 of Japan's war dead from 1868 to 1954. Included in that number are 1068 WWII war criminals. Up until the late 50s no war criminals were included, then the Class C (Nanjing style 'crimes against humanity' war crimes) and Class B (shooting prisoners type 'conventional' war crimes) were quietly added through the 60s. The Class As ('crimes against peace' war criminals - the leadership who took Japan to war) were included in the late 70s. However, the priesthood in charge of the shrine have been kind of nationalist and revisionist dicks , particularly since the late 70s. Like having the League of the South be in charge of Arlington National Cemetery. e: Ironically, it was the inclusion of the Class A war criminals that engendered the controversy, rather than the Class Cs. On the other hand, it was the Class As who were the resurgent nationalist's heroes. joat mon fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 17:14
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DoktorLoken posted:Really? Not doubting this but I'd love to read some sourcing because that sounds kind of nuts that the B-29 cost that much. Yeah it's pretty nuts. The total cost for the Manhattan project was like 20 billion dollars in 2017 money. The B29 project was 41 billion in 2017 money. In comparison, Project Apollo was 106 billion adjusted for inflation. We still don't have working F-35s for over a trillion.
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Dec 4, 2018 17:27
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DoktorLoken posted:Really? Not doubting this but I'd love to read some sourcing because that sounds kind of nuts that the B-29 cost that much. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project#cite_note-327
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Dec 4, 2018 17:40
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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:Japan is an awful country and their warhawks have been absolutely spoiling for a fight the past 10 years. I want them to get in a shooting war with someone and get their dicks stomped on so loving hard. I want to watch liveleak videos of helos with anime girls painted out the side getting blown up The Chinese finally unleashing Operation Revenge for Nanjing would no lie get me a little war chuckle.
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Dec 4, 2018 21:22
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The thing that blows my mind about the B-29 is that the production order was finalized 3 months before Pearl Harbor and there wasn't even a prototype at that time. It and the manhattan project are often looked upon as the ultimate triumph of science over human sanity but they should really be recognized as two of the greatest feats of project management in recorded history.
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Dec 4, 2018 21:33
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Also for a while in '44 there had been so many changes to the design that it was deemed simpler to just build them to the original spec and then fly straight from the assembly line to a purpose built depot in Kansas where they were immediately gutted and updated to the final revision
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Dec 4, 2018 21:39
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It's worth noting too the Firebombing campaigns did more overall damage as far as casualties than both nuclear bombs. The nuclear bombs were largely to show the Japanese War Council that there would be no negotiation over claimed territories, which they still held a large swathe of at the end of the war, and the Japanese were hopeful that they could convince the Soviets to negotiate even up to the Soviet invasion of Manchuria. There was also the misunderstanding that Unconditional surrender would mean compromising the Emperor, which motivated the Japanese War Council to want to hold out longer.
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Dec 4, 2018 22:51
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Considering that the generals still tried to stage a coup and take over after the bombs fell, I don't think arguments about us not needing to drop them have tons of merit.
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Dec 4, 2018 22:55
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Casimir Radon posted:Considering that the generals still tried to stage a coup and take over after the bombs fell, I don't think arguments about us not needing to drop them have tons of merit. Certainly not a megaton of merit.
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Dec 4, 2018 22:58
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It's a loving travesty we didn't execute the whole imperial family. It's like letting Hitler go free because he was too popular. Absolutely insane.
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Dec 4, 2018 23:04
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Dan Carlin's most recent Hardcore History is about the Japanese and their cultural development leading up to the war. His opening dumbfounded me, as I knew that some Japanese surrendered years after the war, but I didn't realize just how gung-ho some of these folks were. Like the dude in the Philippines who only surrendered in 1974, and the Japanese had to fly out his CO-turned-bookkeeper to get him to stop killing people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda
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Dec 4, 2018 23:10
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my kinda ape posted:It's a loving travesty we didn't execute the whole imperial family. It's like letting Hitler go free because he was too popular. Absolutely insane. The emperor was more of a symbol than a leader, as I understand it. And I think it worked in our favor. The current emperor plans to abdicate soon. He was, ironically, not a big favorite of right-wing nationalists. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/13/japans-emperor-akihito-plans-step-down-reports posted:The soft-spoken Akihito marked the 70th anniversary of the war’s end last year with an expression of “deep remorse”, a departure from his previous remarks and seen by some as an effort to cement a legacy of pacifism under threat from conservative Japanese nationalists. I look forward to a Life of Brian scenario in their next expansionary fascist phase.
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Dec 4, 2018 23:19
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Doc Hawkins posted:The emperor was more of a symbol than a leader, as I understand it. And I think it worked in our favor. He was pretty cool with all things Western but Tojo was the real power in WWII Japan and was a totally insane nationalist.
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Dec 4, 2018 23:25
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Doc Hawkins posted:The emperor was more of a symbol than a leader, as I understand it. And I think it worked in our favor. It worked in our favor, just like Operation Paperclip. Doesn't mean it was right though. He might not have been the driving force but he was right there with them supporting them the whole way. He knew and agreed with everything that happened and constantly helped with planning and was consulted. He was absolutely not some powerless, passive figurehead. He deserved the noose as much as any of the other top leadership.
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Dec 4, 2018 23:51
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King of Bees posted:He was pretty cool with all things Western but Tojo was the real power in WWII Japan and was a totally insane nationalist. Tojo did 12/7.
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Dec 5, 2018 00:08
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Doc Hawkins posted:The emperor was more of a symbol than a leader, as I understand it. And I think it worked in our favor. Both Hirohito and later Akihito have refused to visit the Yasukuni Shrine since the Class A war criminals were added in 1978 to those already enshrined there.
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Dec 5, 2018 00:18
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MA-Horus posted:We still don't have working F-35s for over a trillion. Yes we do.
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Dec 5, 2018 04:03
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my kinda ape posted:It's a loving travesty we didn't execute the whole imperial family. It's like letting Hitler go free because he was too popular. Absolutely insane. Hirohito was a gentle peacenik goon who often tore politicians and generals poo poo up, leading them to lose face and stand down. In the end it probably didn't necessarily help, since even worse leaders took over. Still, we cannot compare him to Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini etc. in good faith. Tias fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Dec 5, 2018 |
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Dec 5, 2018 10:00
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Grem posted:We dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a signal to Russia, not to end the war. Oh this poo poo again
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Dec 5, 2018 15:35
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Godholio posted:Yes we do. OK FINE gently caress they work but the B is still a garbage pile for a trillion loving dollars.
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Dec 5, 2018 15:37
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It is a bad plane
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Dec 5, 2018 15:47
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Malachite_Dragon posted:It is a bad plane That's barely even the point. With the Manhattan project, man's understanding of the laws of physics and chemistry were changed in a dramatic and terrifying way. Los Alamos, Oak Ridge and Hanford were all built. Gigantic Calutron plants and Gaseous Diffusion and liquid thermal diffusion plants had to be built, each one of those with it's own technological difficulties to overcome (gaseous diffusion especially). They had to build nuclear reactors based on a pile of graphite bricks and uranium ore that Fermi had built in a goddamn squash court, and have them scaled way the gently caress up. They had to figure out how to separate plutonium from uranium using robots so the workers wouldn't glow in the dark. Then they had to experiment on an element that had never been seen on Earth before, and then they had to figure out how to make it go bang which required an effort so big it nearly made Oppenheimer quit the project. They had to figure out how to turn explosives into a precision instrument, how to make the explosive lenses fire at the same time, how to keep the physics package together long enough for the chain reaction to develop, and how to make the whole thing deliverable in a neat tidy package. Fission was discovered in 1938. It was controlled for the first time in 1942. It was released in 1945. For all the technological developments that had to be made in order to bring about the bomb, the time scale is staggeringly short and was only really possible because 1) There was a concerted national effort under the direct control of the president with zero oversight 2) fear of a german atomic bomb 3) A project manager (Groves) and project lead (Oppenheimer) who were once-in-a-generation phenoms at project management 3) the combined efforts of the greatest scientific minds in human history working towards a common goal.
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Dec 5, 2018 16:13
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Godholio posted:Yes we do. If by "work" you mean "Usually don't kill their drivers and can sometimes hit what they're supposed to" then sure.
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Dec 5, 2018 16:39
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The F-35 works in that it makes Lockheed money while giving jingoistic shitheads something to brag about while people literally die from not being able to afford insulin.
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Dec 5, 2018 17:15
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