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The worst choice they ever made in this game was having tanks and healers I’ve decided. It sucks in mmos and it sucks here.
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Dec 12, 2018 06:18
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beejay posted:The worst choice they ever made in this game was having tanks and healers I’ve decided. It sucks in mmos and it sucks here. To be honest, I actually kinda agree.
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Dec 12, 2018 06:37
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Played a few games of Arena Of Valor (aka League of Legends Mobile, I think?) when it came out for Switch and it was surprising to see a game without healers. Still had some tankier characters, but you also had to be more responsible. I'm not sure what I think about it, but it definitely was a lot more possible to stage a comeback when down a few levels if you could pick off a weakened character, which is pretty much impossible with ever-present healing in HotS.
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Dec 12, 2018 08:00
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No Wave posted:Yes which of the other modes could people go to if they wanted to tank or heal with a standard composition? People don't want to play those modes though, they want to play quickmatch. They also want someone to heal and someone to tank for them so they can play Nova and "carry" the game. No Wave posted:Anyone who thought they could queue-lessly get a standard comp playing DPS in QP is a moron I got some bad fuckin news for you about gamers, my man.
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Dec 12, 2018 09:04
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beejay posted:The worst choice they ever made in this game was having tanks and healers I’ve decided. It sucks in mmos and it sucks here.  I especially hate traditional healers in pvp games like this, fights turn from quick tense affairs to slogs where your damage gets undone and players can be lazy and reckless Preventative support like Zarya and Medivh I don't mind so much
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Dec 12, 2018 11:57
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Tanking and healing is fun tho
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Dec 12, 2018 12:26
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Tanking and healing should be banned from all future games forever. Also the concept of mana.
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Dec 12, 2018 14:09
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remove everyone but jimmy raynor so this game can finally be good
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Dec 12, 2018 14:27
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Orthodox Rabbit posted:remove everyone but Murky so this game can finally be good
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Dec 12, 2018 15:38
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The all murky brawls Ive experienced have all been nightmares, but in a good way
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Dec 12, 2018 15:59
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banned from Starbucks posted:Tanking and healing should be banned from all future games forever. Also the concept of mana. mana sucks ASSSSSSSSSSS I get extra excited every time they add a no-mana class like Samura
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Dec 12, 2018 16:26
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banned from Starbucks posted:Tanking and healing should be banned from all future games forever. Also the concept of mana. teamplay and ressource management are actually good 
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Dec 12, 2018 16:44
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You can almost certainly have both of those without mana and healers. Cooldowns and/or quickly recharging resources are enough to keep people from spamming abilities. Having to stop fighting because of OOM sucks mostly because not every character has the same mana/resource balance. With healing, I have never liked dedicated healers, and feel they are an outdated and deeply flawed concept for team pvp games. I feel like healing should be map based and within each kit itself, to make players have to choose between self healing and other things. Tanking you could probably contort to be more, I dunno, aggressive or something. Honestly HotS has had my favorite form of tanking so far. I think Garrosh is probably on the right track for a kind of tank that I think would make more people want to tank. Basically giving tanks fun abilities that can set up blow ups, but without the ability to just blow people up themselves. I can see ETC and Stitches also kinda being like that. I enjoy Johanna, but there are times when I feel completely helpless when my damage dealers are doing jack poo poo and not getting kills and her kit, while very effective, isn't flashy at all.
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Dec 12, 2018 17:04
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queue times would be fixed if more ppl played the game. I wonder what the active user count trend for the year looks like
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Dec 12, 2018 17:06
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I'd really like to see the HL numbers in particular, because the queues there have been bad for months.
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Dec 12, 2018 17:08
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The only healer I can think of that comes close to being only a healer is Morales, and even with her you have the grenade minigame.
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Dec 12, 2018 17:38
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Dedicated healer meaning their main function is healing, as opposed to killing. Tbh, I wish more healers were along the lines of Tyrande and Kharazim and that they didn't have to choose between more heals or more damage. I mean, in Overwatch, my favorite healers are Moira and Brig (though they just nerfed her a bit and I don't know how she is yet.) It's not that I would want healers to do assassin numbers, but it would be nice if they could be more consistently further up the damage charts. I get the "balance" they are going for, but the problem is that this sort of balance is being designed with the conceit of organized team play.
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Dec 12, 2018 17:47
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Stitches update seems nice but I barely played old stitches so I can't compare
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Dec 12, 2018 21:08
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I got a healing quest as my first move in the new board game event thing. So, in other words, I'm never getting anything out of this board game event thing.
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Dec 12, 2018 21:20
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wow it is depressing watching people miss with sylvanas' ultimate now, over and over. why did they dumpster her :/
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Dec 12, 2018 21:42
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Elysium posted:I got a healing quest as my first move in the new board game event thing. Just do your quests in VS AI :p
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Dec 12, 2018 21:46
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Relin posted:wow it is depressing watching people miss with sylvanas' ultimate now, over and over. why did they dumpster her :/ They deserve it for not taking a massive AoE silence that also does a bunch of damage.
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Dec 12, 2018 22:17
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Relin posted:wow it is depressing watching people miss with sylvanas' ultimate now, over and over. why did they dumpster her :/ God drat she sucks rear end now
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Dec 12, 2018 22:21
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Elysium posted:I got a healing quest as my first move in the new board game event thing. how selfish of you
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Dec 12, 2018 22:36
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bamhand posted:They deserve it for not taking a massive AoE silence that also does a bunch of damage.
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Dec 13, 2018 01:28
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Orthodox Rabbit posted:remove everyone but jimmy raynor so this game can finally be good Jimmy only, no talents, Final Destination
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Dec 13, 2018 03:10
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Tanking is fun, but healing is not. That's why League and Dota supports are way more proactive.
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Dec 13, 2018 05:08
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Hmm down a talent tier. But need maybe 2 minions. Do we team fight without tank? Or wait 2 seconds? Better fight then whine about "laning during objective"
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Dec 13, 2018 05:18
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moush posted:Tanking is fun, but healing is not. That's why League and Dota supports are way more proactive. Honestly this is sort of how I feel as well. I do think that tanking is actually a meaningfully different enough thing from just being another DPS that I think it's worth including, but I also agree with Moola that on a general design level I think that supports in the vein of Zarya, Medivh, and Abathur are better than the "stuff your hitpoints back inside you" type of support which is prevalent throughout many team-based games.
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Dec 13, 2018 06:14
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Medivh isn't even vaguely a Support. 
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Dec 13, 2018 06:56
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how is he less support than zarya?
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Dec 13, 2018 07:27
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ninjewtsu posted:how is he less support than zarya?
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Dec 13, 2018 08:19
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Shockeh posted:Medivh isn't even vaguely a Support. Medivh's protective shields, teleport gates, and ability to freely and safely scout for his team are quintessentially "support" abilities in my mind, not to mention most of the value of his two ults lie in temporarily giving your team a numbers advantage. That most people want to play Medivh as some sort of roundabout Master's Touch assassin doesn't really do much to change the fact that most of his value lies in doing things to protect and save his teammates or facilitating advantageous engagements for them. Medivh is the support that Jeff Kaplan wanted Symmetra to be and could never get her to that point.
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Dec 13, 2018 08:22
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Sure, I get he has abilities that could be used to Support; But only in that they're things you can cast on allies that teammates can benefit from (And I'm aware it's possible to take this down to lowest common and point out that there's little difference there between a 'regular' Support and him in that regard). All that said, he's much more useful/stronger using them 'selfishly' and only occasionally using them to clutch save someone. He's actually well placed in Specialist as a Hero that brings something that nobody else can - Ridiculous enemy team vision and an utterly safe engagement option that means he can drop onto the backline in any given engagement almost entirely safely. The only things he's scared of are extended period CC's, and unexpected displacements that prevent you completing the portal transition animation. (I'm well aware I have Opinions on Medivh, but he's my most played hero by a significant margin so I feel like they're at least somewhat justified.)
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Dec 13, 2018 08:29
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Another random thought on QM MM - two days in a row I've had the play 3 games as a Specialist Hero quest. I like playing Specialists so don't mind, but if they really want to improve the balance of what people are queuing as, they could start by taking away the Specialist & Assassin versions of those quests. Currently 7 minutes in queue as Xul.
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Dec 13, 2018 09:20
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Shockeh posted:Medivh isn't even vaguely a Support. Yes he is. Shockeh posted:Because Zarya doesn't out-DPS Assassins for fun? Yes she does.
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Dec 13, 2018 12:58
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The fact that over half of Medivh's kit can be used by/on his allies as well as for his own benefit simply by itself makes him more of a support than pretty much any of the assassins in the game and most of the tanks and bruisers to boot. All the high-level Medivh play I've watched features plenty of coordinated use of portals/leyline/polybomb as well as more than just occasional clutch force of wills. It's cool that Medivh can contribute in fights too, that doesn't really do much to change the fact that Medivh is unquestionably a support by any metric that matters beyond "stuffing hitpoints back into people" as well as my opinion that I think games should have more supports like Medivh and fewer in the vein of being primarily focused on hitpoint restoration.
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Dec 13, 2018 13:24
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Kai Tave posted:The fact that over half of Medivh's kit can be used by/on his allies as well as for his own benefit simply by itself makes him more of a support than pretty much any of the assassins in the game and most of the tanks and bruisers to boot. All the high-level Medivh play I've watched features plenty of coordinated use of portals/leyline/polybomb as well as more than just occasional clutch force of wills. It's cool that Medivh can contribute in fights too, that doesn't really do much to change the fact that Medivh is unquestionably a support by any metric that matters beyond "stuffing hitpoints back into people" as well as my opinion that I think games should have more supports like Medivh and fewer in the vein of being primarily focused on hitpoint restoration. Those did exist but Blizzard has slowly been reworking them.
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Dec 13, 2018 13:28
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kaesarsosei posted:Another random thought on QM MM - two days in a row I've had the play 3 games as a Specialist Hero quest. I like playing Specialists so don't mind, but if they really want to improve the balance of what people are queuing as, they could start by taking away the Specialist & Assassin versions of those quests. Currently 7 minutes in queue as Xul. This is really dumb IMO (Blizzard, not you). Giving people assassin quests and then punishing them in queue for it.
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Dec 13, 2018 15:45
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Kai Tave posted:Medivh is unquestionably a support by any metric that matters beyond "stuffing hitpoints back into people" as well as my opinion that I think games should have more supports like Medivh and fewer in the vein of being primarily focused on hitpoint restoration. It makes sense why they wouldn't categorize him as a support, though. He literally supports the team, but the "support" role effectively means "healer," which he is not, and it would be bad to give the impression that he can fill the same niche that someone like Whitemane fills. I think in League of Legends, the "support" role is more similar to Medivh's design, where there are some healers, but a lot of the support characters provide mobility or shielding or crowd control utility rather than healing.
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Dec 13, 2018 16:46
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