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our only hope for the funny shutdown option is if the freedom caucus is actually able to scuttle the CR in the house, Trump will cave like always if he's the last check needed.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:49
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I am riding a plane by myself for the first time Christmas Eve night so I hope that they handle the infant, as even if it is open, I don't want to deal with unhappy TSA.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:49
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I hate Trump and I want to hate everything he does but like, pulling US troops out of various middle east forever wars is kind of a good thing, isn't it?
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Dec 20, 2018 16:50
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sexpig by night posted:our only hope for the funny shutdown option is if the freedom caucus is actually able to scuttle the CR in the house, Trump will cave like always if he's the last check needed. they can't, but they might be able to scuttle any veto override
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Dec 20, 2018 16:50
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Hellblazer187 posted:I hate Trump and I want to hate everything he does but like, pulling US troops out of various middle east forever wars is kind of a good thing, isn't it? On principle, hell yes. In practice, still yes but extract yourself very very carefully and try not to leave your allies out in the cold to be slaughtered whilst leaving. You know, like the US has always done.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:51
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Hellblazer187 posted:I hate Trump and I want to hate everything he does but like, pulling US troops out of various middle east forever wars is kind of a good thing, isn't it? In theory but the way he’s going to do it will just make everything worse. Make no mistake. There is no plan. Trump announced this new military policy on Twitter and the Pentagon is scrambling around trying to figure out what to do. No one and nothing is prepared.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:51
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Hellblazer187 posted:I hate Trump and I want to hate everything he does but like, pulling US troops out of various middle east forever wars is kind of a good thing, isn't it? yeah but you can be in favor of withdrawing all troops from syria and still want a plan a little more detailed and a little more consultation with allies than firing off a tweet ordering immediate withdrawal after a phone call with turkey
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Dec 20, 2018 16:51
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Hellblazer187 posted:I hate Trump and I want to hate everything he does but like, pulling US troops out of various middle east forever wars is kind of a good thing, isn't it? yes it's the one time where his sponge brain is actually useful
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Dec 20, 2018 16:51
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Hellblazer187 posted:I hate Trump and I want to hate everything he does but like, pulling US troops out of various middle east forever wars is kind of a good thing, isn't it? You'd think so, but it turns out loving around over there for 17 years without any resolution hasn't convinced some people. Imagine loving something up for 17 years and still pleading for more time. Just imagine that.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:51
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Hellblazer187 posted:I hate Trump and I want to hate everything he does but like, pulling US troops out of various middle east forever wars is kind of a good thing, isn't it? A broken clock is right twice a day kind of thing. Pulling out of Syria may be the right thing to do but Trump is invariably doing it for the wrong reasons, such as handing control over to Russia entirely.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:52
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I picked a helluva weekend to book a flight.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:52
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Popete posted:A broken clock is right twice a day kind of thing. Pulling out of Syria may be the right thing to do but Trump is invariably doing it for the wrong reasons, such as handing control over to Russia entirely. at the end of the day either russia controls syria or we do, this half-and-half thing just means that a brutal civil war goes on indefinitely
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Dec 20, 2018 16:52
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Old tweet for every occasion: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/149132685707718657?s=19
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Dec 20, 2018 16:52
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selec posted:
But enough about my marriage
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Dec 20, 2018 16:52
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sexpig by night posted:when have I denied Turkey is killing Kurds? That's, literally, my entire point. This whole handwringing about how we're just there to prevent terrible things and keep the peace is a smokescreen because we're watching ethnic cleansing happen already. We're not a peacekeeping force, is my point, we're an invading force. I know this might be a bit hard, but when we say "the Kurds" we are generalizing. Kurdish militia groups are numerous and are distinct entities. The US has been working with the SDF, an umbrella group of mostly Kurds and some Syrian arabs. The Afrin Kurds were not in the SDF, though I think that was the eventual goal. The SDF taking Manbij a couple years ago was predominantly to link up SDF lands with the Afrin canton, which is what spurred Turkey-backed militias to invade Syria under the guise of "trying to relieve Aleppo," when in reality it was simply to prevent the SDF from linking all the cantons and increasing in size and organization. So when Turkey invaded Afrin, they did so because Afrin was not US-backed and we could not help them (since our cover was "to fight ISIS," and Afrin was not in a position to fight ISIS, being surrounded by Rebels and SAA. So, yes, Turkey has already genocided Kurds, and we didn't/couldn't stop it before. This one we can, and have been. Multiple times Erdogan has threatened to invade Manbij and we've told him that US forces would remain and dared him to attack US forces. They didn't. Now we have Trump pulling our forces out, which removes that deterrence and will allow Turkey to invade. Action leads to consequence. Debate whether or not it is worth it, not whether or not it would happen. Also, get it through your thick whiney skull. The SDF invited/begged for us to come. We are not an invading force in Syria (the one place we aren't), we are guest forces helping to protect an ally. We are a support and logistics force that supplies special forces support and artillery and air support. The SDF leads all attacks against ISIS. Either know what you're talking about or shut up already.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:53
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DaveWoo posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/kasie/status/1075776077425823745 The absolute moron is gonna loving do it, keep going, keep loving that chicken.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:53
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Hellblazer187 posted:I hate Trump and I want to hate everything he does but like, pulling US troops out of various middle east forever wars is kind of a good thing, isn't it? Key thing to remember is that we are just pulling out all at once, while our allies in the region are still heavily relying on our support to not get killed to a man by Turkey. Yknow, Turkey, the one we literally just signed a 2 billion dollar arms deal with. We aren't pulling out because the region is stable enough for us to do so, we are leaving so we don't get hit with the weapons we just sold to the enemy. Yknow, like arms dealing.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:53
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Honestly the situation in the US is probably closer to a military coup than it’s been since like the Civil War. It’s still ridiculously unlikely but relatively speaking it just seems less of a paranoid fever dream every day.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:54
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I think people are being a bit too... overzealous with the usage of the word "genocide" when describing the Turkish-Kurdish conflict.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:54
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Nazzadan posted:But enough about my marriage I was really tempted to make a joke that pointed out that I manged to get married, then divorced, complete a BA, got married again, and go from being on foodstamps to owning a home and having a solid career just since 9/11, and yet we still can't as a nation get our loving heads straight enough to just get the gently caress over ourselves and do the needful and get the gently caress out. edit: Also released an album and several EPs, and am on my 2nd dog. Just since 9/11! It's been an amazing almost-the-entire-childhood-of-someone-who-will-go-on-to-die-as-member-of-our-military-in-the-Forever-War for me! selec fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 16:54
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Trump's insane obsession with DEALS DEALS DEALS actually can help in some foriegn policy things. If he's genuinely willing to fight his own party he can probably spin 'actually we won the war is over goodbye' into a message his base will accept for Afghanistan/Iraq too (though he'll wait for 2020 for that, Syria is testing things out). But like we saw with North Korea, his dumb brain actually making him buck foriegn policy blob orthodoxy and talk to The Savage Orientals as if they're a valid nation was actually a good move, the whole 'hermit kingdom' doctrine was stupid and yea we probably should be in talks with BOTH Koreas. I don't think Trump is smart enough for that poo poo, but the reaction from the dems to go "OH MY GOD YOU HAVE BETRAYED YOUR NATION SIR" in response was insane and I'm sure we're gonna see that again over our foreverwars too.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:55
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enraged_camel posted:I think people are being a bit too... overzealous with the usage of the word "genocide" when describing the Turkish-Kurdish conflict. Excuse me?
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Dec 20, 2018 16:55
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enraged_camel posted:I think people are being a bit too... overzealous with the usage of the word "genocide" when describing the Turkish-Kurdish conflict. The Turks aim to murder a group of people based largely on their ethnic identity. How is that not textbook genocide?
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Dec 20, 2018 16:56
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enraged_camel posted:I think people are being a bit too... overzealous with the usage of the word "genocide" when describing the Turkish-Kurdish conflict. I don't.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:56
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Griffen posted:Also, get it through your thick whiney skull. The SDF invited/begged for us to come. We are not an invading force in Syria (the one place we aren't), we are guest forces helping to protect an ally. We are a support and logistics force that supplies special forces support and artillery and air support. The SDF leads all attacks against ISIS. Either know what you're talking about or shut up already. "The Diems have repeatedly asked for our continued assistance!" "The swamp Shia are begging us!" "Ahmed Chalabi says..."
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Dec 20, 2018 16:56
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i'm still catching up this morning but https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075726666574544896?s=19 i thought we were withdrawing because we beat ISIS?
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Dec 20, 2018 16:56
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sexpig by night posted:But like we saw with North Korea, his dumb brain actually making him buck foriegn policy blob orthodoxy and talk to The Savage Orientals as if they're a valid nation was actually a good move, the whole 'hermit kingdom' doctrine was stupid and yea we probably should be in talks with BOTH Koreas. I don't think Trump is smart enough for that poo poo, but the reaction from the dems to go "OH MY GOD YOU HAVE BETRAYED YOUR NATION SIR" in response was insane and I'm sure we're gonna see that again over our foreverwars too. How is handing a propaganda victory and legitimizing the Kim regime in return for nothing a "good move"?
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Dec 20, 2018 16:57
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sexpig by night posted:Trump's insane obsession with DEALS DEALS DEALS actually can help in some foriegn policy things. The trouble is that he's not obsessed with "deals" as the rest of the world understands the word, he's obsessed with his personal bizarro concept which he coincidentally also calls "deals".
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Dec 20, 2018 16:57
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pseudanonymous posted:How is handing a propaganda victory and legitimizing the Kim regime in return for nothing a "good move"? Art of the Deal baby
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Dec 20, 2018 16:57
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I’m going to laugh so hard if he shuts down the government after the GOP Senate just passed a clean CR
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Dec 20, 2018 16:58
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eke out posted:i'm still catching up this morning but "I am building by far the most powerful military in the world." It some straight up cartoon villain poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:58
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Griffen posted:I know this might be a bit hard, but when we say "the Kurds" we are generalizing. Kurdish militia groups are numerous and are distinct entities. The US has been working with the SDF, an umbrella group of mostly Kurds and some Syrian arabs. The Afrin Kurds were not in the SDF, though I think that was the eventual goal. The SDF taking Manbij a couple years ago was predominantly to link up SDF lands with the Afrin canton, which is what spurred Turkey-backed militias to invade Syria under the guise of "trying to relieve Aleppo," when in reality it was simply to prevent the SDF from linking all the cantons and increasing in size and organization. So when Turkey invaded Afrin, they did so because Afrin was not US-backed and we could not help them (since our cover was "to fight ISIS," and Afrin was not in a position to fight ISIS, being surrounded by Rebels and SAA. So, yes, Turkey has already genocided Kurds, and we didn't/couldn't stop it before. This one we can, and have been. Multiple times Erdogan has threatened to invade Manbij and we've told him that US forces would remain and dared him to attack US forces. They didn't. Now we have Trump pulling our forces out, which removes that deterrence and will allow Turkey to invade. Action leads to consequence. Debate whether or not it is worth it, not whether or not it would happen. hey dipshit you get your argument is literally 'ok well yea obviously ethnic cleansing happens but as long as we protect the militias that advance our interests its fine' right? It's loving genocide man, if we're a 'peacekeeping' force I think 'prevent genocide' should be number 1 on the job list, but you're exactly right that it's not. We're there to advance US interests, not actually help anyone.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:58
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I wonder what Warmbier's chud family felt when Trump said he was in love with Kim Jong Un.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:59
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eke out posted:i'm still catching up this morning but "I AM building by far the most powerful military in the world." My fear-scented man, we've already got that one covered.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:59
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eke out posted:i'm still catching up this morning but That sure sounds like he's taunting ISIS to do something in that last line. 
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Dec 20, 2018 16:59
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Art of the Deal baby Oh no, those propaganda victories, oh drat, with the thousands of propaganda-related casualties. Y'all got the worms bad. It's super weird how insistent you are on the hegemon.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:59
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pseudanonymous posted:How is handing a propaganda victory and legitimizing the Kim regime in return for nothing a "good move"? what part of "delegitimizing" the Kim regime has gotten anyone anything they run the country. this is not in dispute. this has not been in dispute for the entirety of the time you, personally, have been alive. there comes a point where playing the I'm Not Listening game stops working
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Dec 20, 2018 17:00
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Donnie I'm going to need you to point out at what point we didn't have the most powerful military in the world e: f;b
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Dec 20, 2018 17:00
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Gnumonic posted:It's horrifying to me that a substantial portion of this thread seems to believe that a genocide or massacre of the Kurds is perfectly OK because we know a priori and with certainty that any US military action (even the presence of advisers who exist solely to deter a massacre) would have worse consequences. It's possible to believe that 1) US interventionism over the past 30-40 years has generally had negative consequences, 2) that we're more or less responsible for how bad things are now, and that 3) immediately abandoning our allies and allowing them to be murdered is STILL A BAD THING that is in fact worse than the alternatives. We exist, right now, as the closest thing to a modern analog of an Imperial power. We're an Empire. If you look at the long history of empires, you will find that they rarely, if ever, act out of humanitarian motives. It's all about what's the most direct way to get what they want right now. If the US ever EVER acts in a military action for a humanitarian reason, let me assure you it's purely by coincidence.
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Dec 20, 2018 17:00
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Griffen posted:Also, get it through your thick whiney skull. The SDF invited/begged for us to come. We are not an invading force in Syria (the one place we aren't), we are guest forces helping to protect an ally. We are a support and logistics force that supplies special forces support and artillery and air support. The SDF leads all attacks against ISIS. Either know what you're talking about or shut up already. Funny how there are native informers and collaborators all over the world that demand the US get involved in another country's internal affairs.
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Dec 20, 2018 17:01
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