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however this plays out, i hope it culminates in the destruction of israel and saudi arabia
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Dec 22, 2018 00:51
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Yeah if it turns out that Turkey doesn't invade then it looks a lot better but who fuckin knows
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Dec 22, 2018 00:51
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THS posted:however this plays out, i hope it culminates in the destruction of israel and saudi arabia Inshallah.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:52
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THS posted:however this plays out, i hope it culminates in the destruction of israel and saudi arabia 
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Dec 22, 2018 00:54
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steinrokkan posted:The Turkish army isn't going to suffer any major losses. The Turkish army's ancient hardware and dumbshit loyalist officer corp will absolutely cause turkey to be humiliated if they try to invade northern syria
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Dec 22, 2018 00:55
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Venom Snake posted:The Turkish army's ancient hardware and dumbshit loyalist officer corp will absolutely cause turkey to be humilated if they try to invade northern syria i wonder how neatly this situation would parallel the saudi war in yemen
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Dec 22, 2018 00:56
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Venom Snake posted:The Turkish army's ancient hardware and dumbshit loyalist officer corp will absolutely cause turkey to be humiliated if they try to invade northern syria Ancient hardware? They have better equipment than most of the NATO members, lol
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Dec 22, 2018 00:58
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steinrokkan posted:The Turkish army isn't going to suffer any major losses. Yeah I don't think so either I'm just pointing out that even if things go way worse for Turkey than Afrin did, it's still really really bad for the people northeast Syria.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:59
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steinrokkan posted:Ancient hardware? They have better equipment than most of the NATO members, lol those statements aren't mutually exclusive, and even with completely modern well serviced equipment it's still going to be a bunch of rookie dumbshits fighting an experienced and entrenched insurgency
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Dec 22, 2018 01:01
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The Turkish military mostly has export models shipped to them from Germany and the United States, so they're no better armed than Saudi Arabia.reignonyourparade posted:Yeah I don't think so either I'm just pointing out that even if things go way worse for Turkey than Afrin did, it's still really really bad for the people northeast Syria. It's easy to forget that Afrin was still really difficult for the Turks and their allies to take, in spite of the expectation that it would be a cake walk. And Afrin was cut off from most sources of arms and supplies from outside the country.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:03
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That's a dumb as poo poo view. The regular amry of Turkey is not some racist idea of oriental ineffectualness. It's a fighting force that's demonstrated its strength through many an exercise,
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Dec 22, 2018 01:04
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's easy to forget that Afrin was still really difficult for the Turks and their allies to take, in spite of the expectation that it would be a cake walk. And Afrin was cut off from most sources of arms and supplies from outside the country. Afrin was not difficult to take at all. The Turks suffered virtually no losses, and they sacrificed pure speed for achieving strategic positions and attacking with minimal losses...
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Dec 22, 2018 01:06
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steinrokkan posted:That's a dumb as poo poo view. The regular amry of Turkey is not some racist idea of oriental ineffectualness. It's a fighting force that's demonstrated its strength through many an exercise, Dont think anyone is arguing that the turkish armed forces are led into battle by decadent hashish smoking pashas dumbass
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Dec 22, 2018 01:06
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Fuligin posted:Dont think anyone is arguing that the turkish armed forces are led into battle by decadent hashish smoking pashas dumbass Apparently yes, since there are people who seem to think the Turkish army is a joke armed with WWII level arms.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:07
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steinrokkan posted:Afrin was not difficult to take at all. The Turks suffered virtually no losses, and they sacrificed pure speed for achieving strategic positions and attacking with minimal losses... The Turks suffered "virtually no losses" because their allies ate all the bullets.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:08
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US politicians are taking the Syria and Afghanistan withdrawals incredibly normally https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1075901731949694976 https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1076128583419088896
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Dec 22, 2018 01:11
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Turks suffered "virtually no losses" because their allies ate all the bullets. I think you are mistaking Afrin for al Bab. In the case of Afrin they genuinely owned the Kurds hard.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:11
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steinrokkan posted:Apparently yes, since there are people who seem to think the Turkish army is a joke armed with WWII level arms. Do you think E's choice to post-pone the invasion until further notice is because he's Very Confident about what would happen if they did launch a full scale invasion
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Dec 22, 2018 01:12
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Do you think mobilizing thousands of people is easy?
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Dec 22, 2018 01:13
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Atrocious Joe posted:US politicians are taking the Syria and Afghanistan withdrawals incredibly normally https://twitter.com/GovHowardDean/status/1075928025638813696
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Dec 22, 2018 01:14
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The dean scream
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Dec 22, 2018 01:19
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steinrokkan posted:I think you are mistaking Afrin for al Bab. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:45
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You don’t know what you’re talking about. lol let me tell you about the hardship encountered by Turkish forces vacatïng Afrin
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Dec 22, 2018 02:06
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steinrokkan posted:America loving started something, you should be held responsible for carrying it out through. You people don't just get to leave and pretend nothing ever happened, you need to deal with the consequences. In an ideal world 100% of the US GDP would be spend on unfucking your past evils, but even in this reality you can't just pretend that withdrawing from everywhere at once is a solution. Remember how that worked for Obama in Iraq? wow if you're this pissed now, you're gonna go ripshit up a wall when you find out how we got all the states west of the mississippi river the usa is a nation of lying genocidal devils and ww2 was the exception to a 250 year rule. god bless.
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Dec 22, 2018 02:15
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steinrokkan posted:lol let me tell you about the hardship encountered by Turkish forces vacatïng Afrin Afrin is a district half the size of Rhode Island, and it still took the Turks & the FSA a whole 2 months to take it. "Easy" was the Iraqi army retaking Kirkuk in less than a day.
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Dec 22, 2018 02:19
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Fuligin posted:The idea is that trump may have inadverdently ju-jitsu'd erdogan by recalling are troops before the turks are prepared for anything like an offensive. Considering that the lira is tanking, the officer ranks have been purged, and the last showings of the turkish armed forces were not exactly brilliant, rojava may not be as dooooomed as our histrionic foreign policy apparatus believes, especially if they can come to an understanding with assad. Or maybe not, I dunno. there are specifically two groups in the world who have proven able to stand up to organized armies fielding well-supplied tank columns and without air support --the houthis --ISIS pre-US intervention the turks aren't just paying mercs like the saudis are, and the kurds themselves are currently occupying ISIS-held majority-arab land. Olive Branch was a slaughter where we hosed the Kurds by denying them US air support (which is the greater part of our aid, the fixation about Boots On The Ground is mostly posturing) just like they're hosed now, and what happens in a couple months will be no different.
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Dec 22, 2018 02:24
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Willie Tomg posted:wow if you're this pissed now, you're gonna go ripshit up a wall when you find out how we got all the states west of the mississippi river Given that the united states was a major financial backer of the nazi party through the 1920s and 1930s, american corporations assisted the nazis during the holocaust, most of the fighting america partook in during wwii was not against the nazis, the united states assisted nazis in escaping europe after the war, the united states installed nazis in prominent positions in nato and the west german government, and the united states covertly funded nazi left behind operations throughout europe for decades, i would say that ww2 was probably not an exception either
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Dec 22, 2018 02:27
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But hell, that's just my opinion. And we all know what people say about opinions!
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Dec 22, 2018 02:30
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Afrin is a district half the size of Rhode Island, and it still took the Turks & the FSA a whole 2 months to take it. "Easy" was the Iraqi army retaking Kirkuk in less than a day. extraordinarily different circumstances, combatants, tactics used by everyone involved and also the US was bombing the gently caress out of kirkuk. the kurds will have zero air force. none. it's gonna go one way. i don't like indefnite, missionless military commitments in every corner of the world any more than you do, but you cannot sugar-coat this. Algund Eenboom posted:Given that the united states was a major financial backer of the nazi party through the 1920s and 1930s, american corporations assisted the nazis during the holocaust, most of the fighting america partook in during wwii was not against the nazis, the united states assisted nazis in escaping europe after the war, the united states installed nazis in prominent positions in nato and the west german government, and the united states covertly funded nazi left behind operations throughout europe for decades, i would say that ww2 was probably not an exception either yea but we wound up settling on stabbing the bad guys in the back by the time the plates stopped spinning and the soviets won too quick for us to stab them in the back too. that was pretty good, morally, by our standards.
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Dec 22, 2018 02:33
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I'm not sure if steinrokkan is right or wrong here but the fact that his ideological allies are Hillary and Lindsey Graham is lol.
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Dec 22, 2018 02:34
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Willie Tomg posted:extraordinarily different circumstances, combatants, tactics used by everyone involved and also the US was bombing the gently caress out of kirkuk. The Kurds had zero air force in Afrin too. You're also confusing Kirkuk with Mosul. Nobody is sugarcoating anything. The point is that invading Rojava is a massively difficult undertaking for the Turks, especially after how much trouble they had fighting ISIS and the YPG in Afrin. Pretending that Afrin was some kind of cakewalk and that the Turkish military is some unstoppable juggernaut is pure revisionist histrionics from people who don't know what they're talking about.
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Dec 22, 2018 02:43
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Under the most conservative estimates the SDF lost 3 times as many as the TFSA in Afrin. And that was the most fortified part of Rojava.
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Dec 22, 2018 03:18
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anyone who thinks they know what will happen is lying none of you are free from bullshit
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Dec 22, 2018 03:19
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https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1076301085055291392
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Dec 22, 2018 03:21
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THS posted:anyone who thinks they know what will happen is lying Maybe MIT is still talking to Öcalan
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Dec 22, 2018 03:26
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Kurds had zero air force in Afrin too. You're also confusing Kirkuk with Mosul. I actually had it confused with one of the iraqi campaigns toward the end whose retaking went... smoother, than Mosul if not "smooth" but yeah spaceout aside US airpower was a factor throughout as well as the winning fights in Kobani and Afrin. The situation in Kirkuk in 2014 had as much to do with ISIS' offensive succeeding beyond the most delierious predictions and suddenly needing to digest a nation of several million confused suddenly-former Iraqis. Then the US steps in with airstrikes in syria and iraq and... they stop moving forward. Yeah they fought like mad but whether the opponent is turkey, the fsa, or isis (but i repeat myself W E W L A D) armor and air power have been the keys. Olive Branch took a minute, but it still went through, and though I don't doubt for a second the panopoly of kurdish groups will make a fight of it the "SDF" will not, and thats a very very important distinction considering the makeup of Rojava right now. e; fever is loving with me but i think i made a point in there, somewhere. Willie Tomg has issued a correction as of 03:33 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 03:29
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the vietcong had little to no air support and they beat the united states. check and mate bitxch
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Dec 22, 2018 03:35
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Flavahbeast posted:what if hes right tho what if...trumps right 
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Dec 22, 2018 04:06
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THS posted:the vietcong had little to no air support and they beat the united states. check and mate bitxch the vietcong were getting a river of supplies from china and the soviet states, weren't fighting on a mostly flat scrubland, and also had Literally Some antiair weapons, which is not the case in iraq/syria
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Dec 22, 2018 04:14
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Willie Tomg posted:e; fever is loving with me but i think i made a point in there, somewhere. Your fever is definitely loving with you. What I mean about Kirkuk is what happened a year ago after Barzani's independence referendum in Iraqi Kurdistan. The Iraqi Army and Shia militias moved to retake Kirkuk since it's an Arab-majority city and the Peshmerga immediately fled without much of a fight. That's easy. Afrin was not easy no matter how much somebody may want to spin it otherwise, and the YPG in Afrin was much more poorly armed and supplied than Rojava. The difficulty facing the Turks in trying to invade Rojava means they'll need a much longer time to build up their forces and prepare the militias they'll need to go in on the ground and actually take territory. That's time they don't have now that everyone and their dog knows the United States intends to withdraw soonish. If Trump had coordinated with Erdogan on a consistent Rojava policy then they could've been ready for an offensive from day 1, but now they're scrambling.
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Dec 22, 2018 04:52
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