|
RoboChrist 9000 posted:At some point over the last decade, and I honestly don't know enough 4chan history to guess when, things shifted and the racism and Nazism became what people actually believed, rather than what they pretended to believe to get cheap rises out of people. Gamergate was the tipping point. I used to hang out online with a sort of 4chan-adjacent subcommunity of about 40-60 people (long story), and before Gamergate that crowd was surprisingly varied, quite international, a few women, some gay people, etc. Nobody talked politics. When Gamergate happened, multiple people who'd seemed perfectly reasonable and sane just went totally off the deep end and dragged a lot of others with them. That same community today is just frothing right-wing insanity.
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 13:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 21:49 |
|
|
RoboChrist 9000 posted:Even among Nazis you usually have only a minority that's into the REALLY bizarre mysticism. Look at Himmler and his romantic, idealistic, mysticism compared to the other more 'sane' Nazis, for example. Well, they had both esoteric mysticism and pseudo-scientific beliefs intermixing. Some would scoff at the idea of Aryan Supermen with magic powers from Thule, but they'd claim that Aryans were genetic superior and actually the founders of most civilizations until jews destroyed them, that's just scientific proof. Hungry posted:Gamergate was the tipping point. I used to hang out online with a sort of 4chan-adjacent subcommunity of about 40-60 people (long story), and before Gamergate that crowd was surprisingly varied, quite international, a few women, some gay people, etc. Nobody talked politics. When Gamergate happened, multiple people who'd seemed perfectly reasonable and sane just went totally off the deep end and dragged a lot of others with them. That same community today is just frothing right-wing insanity. Yea I've been saying to for years all this poo poo is Gamergates fault. Everyone just dismissed them as trolls, but they put a fear of the Other in a lot of white young mens head by attacking the only thing many of them had in life, video games. Living in a surburban wasteland your only options for things to do is either school sports or the church, or if you're lucky there are teenage parties, but if you're not part of that, then you're going to be fairly isolated. There's few jobs to have, and really nothing so they retreated into video games. The scum that already existed saw an opening and showed up and said "hey women are non whites and gays are trying to take away your video games and replace them with walking simulators about lesbian sisters!" and that caused them to radicalize. Everything else was not for them, and then they believed that the one thing that was for them was now going to be taken away, they're all suddenly MAGA! SIEG HEIL! JUDEN RAUS!!! Though combined with the "ironic" racism and nazim that 4chan used to do, mostly just to get a rise out of people, it really made things worse.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 20:26
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/unburntwitch/status/826314407877554181?lang=en
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 20:26
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:all this poo poo is Gamergates fault. I wonder if Gamergate's success motivated WoW goldseller Steve Bannon (or if Bannon helped propel Gamergate for that matter).
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 20:55
|
|
|
I would really say it's less gamer gate making people go Nazi, and more a shitload of people finally sorting out whether they were going to put up with all the existing nazi fucks. And in that way it also made clear to the Nazis which people would be their super special nazi pals instead of just being people who'd go "lol Hitler". Plus the whole "you can't be an ironic racist indefinitely without being an unironic racist" part.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 21:34
|
|
|
Empire State posted:I wonder if Gamergate's success motivated WoW goldseller Steve Bannon (or if Bannon helped propel Gamergate for that matter). quote:Yiannopoulos devoted much of Bretibart's tech coverage to cultural issues, particularly Gamergate, a long-running online argument over gaming culture that peaked in 2014. And that helped fuel an online alt-right movement sparked by Breitbart News.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 21:35
|
|
|
Empire State posted:I wonder if Gamergate's success motivated WoW goldseller Steve Bannon (or if Bannon helped propel Gamergate for that matter). Bannon has been plotting fascism basically forever and was buds with Andrew Breitbart. It's conceivable he looked for ways to further radicalize those shitheads though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 21:37
|
|
|
fishmech posted:I would really say it's less gamer gate making people go Nazi, and more a shitload of people finally sorting out whether they were going to put up with all the existing nazi fucks. And in that way it also made clear to the Nazis which people would be their super special nazi pals instead of just being people who'd go "lol Hitler". I think many of these people without gamergate would have continued to not participate in politics. They were more concerned about if the next sonic game would be good and such. Some would probably have become chuds, but the networks that were developed during GamerGate would not exist which would be able to radicalize people. Though you're 100% correct that if your an ironic racist, you're just a racist.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 01:49
|
|
|
Empire State posted:Okay, I remember seeing "kekekeke" in the past, so that makes sense. A chud version of "for the lols." I get that it sounds a bit like an Egyptian god, but do some of these crazies attach weird mysticism to it or is that all just goofiness? kekekekekeke was a Korean Starcraft 2 meme, omg zerg rush kekekekekekeke
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 01:56
|
|
|
Lol but also....ughhhhhh
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 05:10
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I think many of these people without gamergate would have continued to not participate in politics. They were more concerned about if the next sonic game would be good and such. Some would probably have become chuds, but the networks that were developed during GamerGate would not exist which would be able to radicalize people. I question how much of them have really come to participate in politics out of line with how they'd otherwise participate as pretty racist conservatives who'd probably start voting in large numbers by age 35? And as pretty racist conservatives, well, the Republican party was hardly pure from the point of going all in with racism several decades back. QAnon shows quite well the level to which already politically engaged enough to vote older people of similar views outside the internet are willing to buy in to adoring praise of nazism after all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 05:28
|
|
|
Probably my favorite funny thing about the whole Q mess is 65 year old boomers invading 8 chan. I could barely navigate the 4 chan boards when I perused them years ago, I can't imagine what it does to the worm-eaten brain of a MAGA oldster https://mobile.twitter.com/infinitechan/status/950118385517408256 zoux fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Dec 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 05:38
|
|
|
ahaha 8chan is verified Jesus Christ gently caress twitter
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 07:53
|
|
|
Catching up on this thread has been a doozy.Mellow Seas posted:Clark’s essay is interesting because it offers explanation for not just things like Q or Satanic Panic but also, more gently, the reactions to mostly-imaginary cultural bogeymen. Christmas provides a lot of examples, from “they don’t let you say Merry Christmas!” to “the libs want to ban Rudolph!” The complaintant is asserting their own virtue more than showing any legitimate concern. So you're saying...conservatives are the real virtue signallers?  TulliusCicero posted:Yes, if I squint real hard and just believe, that looks like a Q! Just their eyes? Have you looked up at a bright clear blue sky lately? Notice those floaters? Another element of the too-online folks radicalising is a sense of belonging. They'll play along to feel like they belong, until the actions become habits and habits become a practice, etc. Another thing driving conservatives and the alt-right into full blown conspiracy theory is that Trump is a goddamn disappointment to them and a conspiracy theory about how Trump is actually succeeding right now and you'll see, soon, any day now, etc. Given how deep they already are in delusion, they'd rather dive back in the pool than climb out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 08:27
|
|
|
Dr. Killjoy posted:ahaha 8chan is verified Jesus Christ gently caress twitter
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 08:48
|
|
|
happyhippy posted:kekekekekeke was a Korean Starcraft 2 meme, omg zerg rush kekekekekekeke You bring soy? ^____^
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 11:40
|
|
|
Dr. Killjoy posted:ahaha 8chan is verified Jesus Christ gently caress twitter Okay, someone's going to have to explain this to me. As far as I ever knew, "verified" means "yes, this person actually is who they claim to be" or "yes, this person represents the organization they claim to". But apparently there's more to it than that?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 17:47
|
|
|
Glazius posted:Okay, someone's going to have to explain this to me. As far as I ever knew, "verified" means "yes, this person actually is who they claim to be" or "yes, this person represents the organization they claim to". But apparently there's more to it than that? There's been a lot of people who applied to be verified and should have been, but didn't get the checkmark while prominent right wing assholes did.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 17:51
|
|
|
If you don't have a blue checkmark you're an unperson.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 17:56
|
|
|
Glazius posted:Okay, someone's going to have to explain this to me. As far as I ever knew, "verified" means "yes, this person actually is who they claim to be" or "yes, this person represents the organization they claim to". But apparently there's more to it than that? Verified people also get access to a different twitter dashboard that has a lot more filtering controls. when they got backlash for verifying a bunch of alt-right people they've stopped new verification and I don't think you can apply anymore
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:00
|
|
|
They also tried using it as a stick and unverified a bunch of nazis such as Richard Spencer last year. You'd think “big deal” but it caused Laura Loomer to melt down at least.
zoux fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Dec 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:13
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Yea I've been saying to for years all this poo poo is Gamergates fault. Everyone just dismissed them as trolls, but they put a fear of the Other in a lot of white young mens head by attacking the only thing many of them had in life, video games. I think in some sense that “thank you for pulling average Americans further to the right” line you see on Facebook is correct - what polarized a lot of young men was seeing their dumb fun politicized by other people for the purpose of profit and self-promotion. For example take Pewdiepie’s various “scandals” in which a funny man who makes silly internet videos and seems to be a genuinely decent and ethical person (especially compared to everyone else on YouTube) keeps getting outed as a secret Nazi. Everything he posts is picked over with a fine toothed comb by the likes of the Wall Street Journal, in pursuit of sensationalist clickbait headlines. Someone who doesn’t watch Pewdiepie will see headlines like these and develop the opinion that he’s a racist scumbag. Someone who does watch Pewdiepie will see these headlines and think whoever wrote them must have been smoking crack. They are attacking someone you enjoy and trying to demonetize and deplatform him for imaginary antisemitism. To me I just see this as a symptom of a sad media climate where the only way to make money on click-based advertising is to be as objectionable as possible, in order to get clicks and shares from “both sides”. But someone else might see this as a legitimate culture war between gamers and politically correct social justice warriors, based on the same evidence.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:15
|
|
|
bad day posted:I think in some sense that “thank you for pulling average Americans further to the right” line you see on Facebook is correct - what polarized a lot of young men was seeing their dumb fun politicized by other people for the purpose of profit and self-promotion. Lol what
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:16
|
|
|
Pewds is for sure a crypto Nazi https://www.vox.com/2018/12/13/18136253/pewdiepie-vs-tseries-links-to-white-supremacist-alt-right-redpill
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
bad day posted:I think in some sense that “thank you for pulling average Americans further to the right” line you see on Facebook is correct - what polarized a lot of young men was seeing their dumb fun politicized by other people for the purpose of profit and self-promotion. You forgot the fact that Pew is a racist loving nazi.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:21
|
|
|
I’m just a casual observer but it seems to me what “sells” on social media is sensationalist, often inaccurate headlines. This is why you see twenty different “star wars movie news” articles every time someone from the cast breathes. People go to the article to get the news, to complain about the news, to complain about the inaccuracy of the article, etc. Clickbait mills pay attention to what stories are successful and attempt to emulate and feed them back to us. It’s the only way to make money off “journalism” other than a subscription model, anymore. This isn’t some grand conspiracy it’s just economic reality now. And certain buttons cause controversy and make more money. I noticed years ago posts on expat sites about relationships between locals and foreigners always had 30x the views of other articles. Hyperbole is successful. Calling other people monsters is successful. And I just think this has led to the kind of us-vs-them mentality in young people. Observationally - I work around high school kids sometimes - and the ones who tell Kekistani or Stalinist meme jokes are always very unserious shitposting types, not literal Nazis. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:You forgot the fact that Pew is a racist loving nazi. Clearly you don’t watch Pewdiepie, then. bad day fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Dec 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:32
|
|
|
bad day posted:
I did before it was obvious he was a loving racist shitbag that enables nazis if he isn't one himself, like what 4-6 years ago?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:39
|
|
|
bad day posted:Clearly you don’t watch Pewdiepie, then. Seems like your trying to wash away what he did. He is a loving nazi and the only reason he back pedaled was because it was costing him a poo poo ton of money. He got rich so he thought it was immune. Fascists hide until they get enough power ether through money or influence.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:43
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/hello__caitlin/status/1077082478882353152?s=19
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:46
|
|
|
If you watch the guy, he makes ten minute shows about memes and occasionally plays anime games now. There’s nothing objectionable to be found there. This same person at Vox keeps writing the same article about him. I’m not defending him - he is a millionaire who cares - but someone who reads these articles and doesn’t subscribe to his YouTube is going away with the impression he is a Nazi, and the people who do watch his videos are going away with the impression media outlets use hyperbole and outright lies to attack anyone they disagree with. And this is what I’m talking about, the two worlds existing simultaneously. I think this is the problem. It’s just difficult to describe, so I used Pewdiepie as an example. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:47
|
|
|
bad day posted:If you watch the guy, he makes ten minute shows about memes and occasionally plays anime games now. There’s nothing objectionable to be found there. No, its extremely easy to describe. You (and millions of his followers) care more about Bideo James and Anime than the fact he enables nazis, promotes them, and is one of them himself. Pretty loving simple.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 18:49
|
|
|
Heck Yes! Loam! posted:No, its extremely easy to describe. You (and millions of his followers) care more about Bideo James and Anime than the fact he enables nazis, promotes them, and is one of them himself. Pretty loving simple. I think the difference bad day is describing/the two worlds explanation is that some folks have very low/no tolerance for Nazi imagery and links to straight up nazis like the person PDP linked to in his recommendation video, and on the other hand you have two groups: PDP fans who don’t give a poo poo at all or not enough about the Nazi imagery to make a stink, and actual Nazis. They both see something or someone they live under attack, and team up to defend PDP. But the Nazi imagery and links are there and minimizing or denying them is pure dipshittery. Stand for what you stand for and just be honest “I am less bothered by Nazi imagery and links than I am by the notion people are writing less-than-hagiographic articles about PDP.” We also gotta admit that the possibility, however minute, exists that PDP would be chased off the internet entirely by this kind of furor (he won’t, duh) but the possibility raises the stakes to his fans which drives them to tolerate even more Nazi poo poo from him, and the reactions to it. selec fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Dec 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 19:04
|
|
|
bad day posted:If you watch the guy, he makes ten minute shows about memes and occasionally plays anime games now. There’s nothing objectionable to be found there.  If you watch this guy, he just plays with his dog and hangs out with his girlfriend in the mountains. There’s nothing objectionable to be found there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 19:05
|
|
|
Watching people jump through hoops to defend a guy who paid Indians to hold a sign that said "gas the jews" as "not a Nazi" sure is something. Next, they'll be saying firing the ovens doesn't count as murder because the fire did the work.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 19:10
|
|
|
selec posted:I think the difference bad day is describing/the two worlds explanation is that some folks have very low/no tolerance for Nazi imagery and links to straight up nazis like the person PDP linked to in his recommendation video, and on the other hand you have two groups: PDP fans who don’t give a poo poo at all or not enough about the Nazi imagery to make a stink, and actual Nazis. They both see something or someone they live under attack, and team up to defend PDP. https://twitter.com/fmri_guy/status/963613417662746624?lang=en
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 19:29
|
|
|
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...urity-concerns/
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 19:31
|
|
|
I mean, I agree, but there are a lot of PDP fans who see the Nazi stuff as “just jokes” who probably view themselves as liberals, who vote democratic, and what do you say to them? How do you walk them through it, were you inclined to? It’s an interesting proposition, because essentially you’re seeking to make them uncomfortable, but not so uncomfortable so suddenly that they turn away and ignore you. You need to make them feel the way about seeing the Nazi stuff that we feel, where it’s instant revulsion and disgust. At least that’s how I feel about it; just very contemptuous and turned off instantly. But if we care to try and peel kids off from this, we need to understand we’re peeling them off from what they see as a warm, fun inviting community with a super fun dude at the top of it. What’s the alternative you have to offer? If there’s not some place you can dump them to that feeds the same needs but also nips nazi stuff in the bud, it’s gonna be a much more difficult effort. I think it has to be a two track effort of trying to destroy PDP as a public figure as well as discover what the This in Do This Instead looks like; the social belonging aspect can’t be overlooked. selec fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Dec 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 19:36
|
|
|
bad day posted:Observationally - I work around high school kids sometimes - and the ones who tell Kekistani or Stalinist meme jokes are always very unserious shitposting types, not literal Nazis. While I agree that those kids are probably not serious, they're def at risk of getting "red pilled" and taking it seriously. I feel that ironic racism should be called out and be considered not okay, but also called out as "ironic racsim". Basically if racism is metaphorically intentionally lighting someone on fire to cause them harm, then "ironic racism" should be considered metaphorically being a dumbass and carelessly playing with fire and should be treated as such.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 19:38
|
|
|
Digamma-F-Wau posted:While I agree that those kids are probably not serious, they're def at risk of getting "red pilled" and taking it seriously. I feel that ironic racism should be called out and be considered not okay, but also called out as "ironic racsim". Basically if racism is metaphorically intentionally lighting someone on fire to cause them harm, then "ironic racism" should be considered metaphorically being a dumbass and carelessly playing with fire and should be treated as such. Is Vonnegut not taught in schools anymore or something? THis was basic poo poo back in my high school days.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 19:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 21:49 |
|
|
selec posted:...view themselves as liberals, who vote democratic... Getting mixed signals about these ironic Nazis. Also bad day, in your first post about this were you trying to say that gamergaters have actual legitimate grievances (and not just 'hey, game journalism sucks, must be women's/minorities fault!')?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 19:44
|
|
