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I'll be pro-active and ask the israeli branch of physicians for human rights.
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Dec 25, 2018 17:08
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God, Oren Hazan is the smarmiest, slimiest piece of poo poo I've ever had the displeasure of listening to. gently caress him and everyone he represents. Edit: It's been more than an hour and I am still mad. What the gently caress is wrong with a person who sees that wretched piece of human slime talk with his smug self-satisfied grin, hears his loving petty insult flinging and shitstrirring and decides "yes, this is who I want to represent me, this is my sort of guy"? What sort of brain-rotting substance do they spike in the drinks of Liku primary voters? gently caress. AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Dec 26, 2018 |
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Dec 26, 2018 18:04
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Naftali Bennett and Ayalet Shaked resigned from Jewish Home the other day to form their own secular settler party, The New Right. Jewish Home is going to merge with Yachad (Shas offshoot that didn't qualify for parliament last time.) Supposedly New Right is going to immediately partner with Jewish Home again after the election, so is that really going to convince the secular Likud voters they're trying to attract? This has Netanyahu a little spooked and trying to lower the electoral bar again, because every Knesset vote will count, and Jewish Home will struggle to get seats otherwise. Meanwhile, the Benny Gantz/Bogie Ya'alon party, Hosen Yisrael, is the latest centrist party to launch and jump in front of the others. One report had Livni wanting to defect to here and being rejected, but what is clear is that Labor in whatever form is not polling well and poised to lose seats to other centrist parties. Orly Levy-Abekasis's new centrist party, Gesher, is also polling well enough to grab a few seats. The right led before this latest drama. Even then, with the coalition math, it's going to be extremely difficult for anyone to form a government. Of course, this could all be thrown into chaos if/when a Netanyahu indictment comes down, with Netanyahu threatening the independent AG to not bring charges before the election.
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Dec 31, 2018 05:18
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/30/world/middleeast/gaza-medic-israel-shooting.html This seems like a pretty fair and plausible take. quote:The bullet that killed her, The Times found, was fired by an Israeli sniper into a crowd that included white-coated medics in plain view. A detailed reconstruction, stitched together from hundreds of crowd-sourced videos and photographs, shows that neither the medics nor anyone around them posed any apparent threat of violence to Israeli personnel. Though Israel later admitted her killing was unintentional, the shooting appears to have been reckless at best, and possibly a war crime, for which no one has yet been punished. quote:An Israeli soldier looking across at where Ms. Najjar stands now might see a man waving a Palestinian flag aloft, a few straggling protesters ambling around, and a cluster of medics helping a protester on the ground recover from tear gas. No one in the area is doing anything menacing. The tear gas is doing what it is meant to: making the use of lethal force unnecessary. quote:Three medics down, all from one bullet. It seemed improbable. quote:A senior Israeli commander told The Times in August that 60 to 70 other Gaza protesters had been killed unintentionally, around half the total killed at that point.
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Dec 31, 2018 05:23
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Kim Jong Il posted:Supposedly New Right is going to immediately partner with Jewish Home again after the election, Source for this? It's hard to believe, after all the criticism Bennet's stunt generated from within Jewish Home. They would definitely advance the same pro-settler policies, that's the point, but there would be no reason for them to merge back in to any meaningful extent.
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Dec 31, 2018 10:41
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quote:The large number of accidental killings, and Israel’s failure to adjust the rules of engagement in response, raise the question of whether they were a bug or a feature of its policy. hmmm what a headscratcher
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Dec 31, 2018 10:47
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:God, Oren Hazan is the smarmiest, slimiest piece of poo poo I've ever had the displeasure of listening to. gently caress him and everyone he represents. 1. This. It serves to filter out people who have a brain / conscience to begin with. 2. I pointed this out before - he came to my hometown before the municipal election, and called it a toilet. And his target audience laughed and clapped along. Ideology is one hell of a drug. But you know what else is one hell of a drug? The kind of drugs he actually sold.
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Dec 31, 2018 11:14
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aquifers (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 31, 2018 11:54
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avshalemon posted:aquifers deep and still I quiver with expectation for your ghostly touch o light upon the nations carry me unto blissful climax upon thy masculine shoulders, my ariel. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 31, 2018 14:58
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Just read an article about aquifers actually - it was how trade sanctions had prevented Gazan hospitals from providing enough antibiotics to treat injections and now dozens to hundreds of the injured from the protests had illnesses no antibiotic could touch; specifically that sewage and waste containing these superbugs were entering the aquifer that both Israel and Egypt also used, which seems like an entirely avoidable issue! Also hilarious to see that the best link KJI can find to defend the IDF paints them as too incompetent to not "accidentally" shoot unarmed people dressed as medics instead of unarmed people wearing yellow shirts more than 120 foot away
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Dec 31, 2018 16:30
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Illuyankas posted:Just read an article about aquifers actually - it was how trade sanctions had prevented Gazan hospitals from providing enough antibiotics to treat injections and now dozens to hundreds of the injured from the protests had illnesses no antibiotic could touch; specifically that sewage and waste containing these superbugs were entering the aquifer that both Israel and Egypt also used, which seems like an entirely avoidable issue! Circumretit vis atque injuria quemque, atque, unde exorta est, ad eum plerumque revertit. --Lucretius, De Rerum Natura
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Dec 31, 2018 17:14
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emanresu tnuocca posted:deep and still My god it's spreading.
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Dec 31, 2018 17:25
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The IDF refuse to disclose their rules of engagement because they've been conceived by loving nerds who took an interest in deleuze and guatarri and thought they had some good ideas about combat movement.
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Dec 31, 2018 19:32
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I'm pretty sure the standard IDF rules of engagement are available on the Internet.
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Dec 31, 2018 20:25
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Illuyankas posted:Also hilarious to see that the best link KJI can find to defend the IDF paints them as too incompetent to not "accidentally" shoot unarmed people dressed as medics instead of unarmed people wearing yellow shirts more than 120 foot away Best link? It was the front page of the New York Times yesterday. Who else is doing this level of deep dive? And I don't have a record of blindly defending the IDF or anyone. I think it's pretty safe to say that the IDF's boasting about 100% pinpoint accuracy is laughable. What conceivable benefit do they get from shooting a medic? The article clearly blames Israeli policy for the shootings, and makes clear that even claimed accidental shootings can't be accidents if they repeatedly happen. AFancyQuestionMark posted:Source for this? It's hard to believe, after all the criticism Bennet's stunt generated from within Jewish Home. They would definitely advance the same pro-settler policies, that's the point, but there would be no reason for them to merge back in to any meaningful extent. https://www.timesofisrael.com/bennett-shaked-said-to-plan-to-reunite-with-jewish-home-after-elections The reaction was more mixed than criticism.
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Jan 1, 2019 00:53
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Kim Jong Il posted:What conceivable benefit do they get from shooting a medic? Medics save lives; killing Palestinian medics means that more Palestinians will die in agony. Which is exactly what Israel wants to achieve, so the benefit they get is the fulfillment of their primary driving goal.
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Jan 1, 2019 01:40
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Kim Jong Il posted:Best link? It was the front page of the New York Times yesterday. Who else is doing this level of deep dive? And I don't have a record of blindly defending the IDF or anyone. I think it's pretty safe to say that the IDF's boasting about 100% pinpoint accuracy is laughable. What conceivable benefit do they get from shooting a medic? The article clearly blames Israeli policy for the shootings, and makes clear that even claimed accidental shootings can't be accidents if they repeatedly happen. I think most of the thread will disagree on the bolded. As far as the italicized they get to terrorize the palestinian population and punish them for daring to protest. It had the added benefit of getting the domestic population to salivate at the thought that the IDF is doing something to "protect" them from the very real and not imaginary existential threats the Israeli government had ginned up. I think the fact that the army records match up showing the medics were listed as clean shots is pretty good evidence it was intentional. And if that weren't enough the lack of prosecution or even a change of their ROE should be plenty to convince even the most ardent skeptic. Put it in perspective of decades of unapologetic war crimes and the most ardent supporter will need to defend the practice...like I dunno claiming the medics are just acting as human shields.
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Jan 1, 2019 02:01
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Miftan posted:
and valleys; millennia in exile, yet your hands are not foreign here. O ariel! ariel, your home awaits your proud and surging return; Come! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 1, 2019 06:17
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Kim Jong Il posted:What conceivable benefit do they get from shooting a medic?
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Jan 1, 2019 13:25
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Kim Jong Il posted:What conceivable benefit do they get from shooting a medic? Why are you ignoring basic human nature? The benefit may be pleasure at the suffering of another. The fact it's a medic makes it all the better. Someone who helps the enemy is now dying in pain.
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Jan 1, 2019 22:45
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I think it's more just a general act of collective punishment and coercion. "Don't come out and protest or medically attend to protesters or you might get shot."
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Jan 1, 2019 23:15
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think it's more just a general act of collective punishment and coercion. "Don't come out and protest or medically attend to protesters or you might get shot." Not that the other answers aren't true but this is the strategic value of the action and probably what is weighed against the bad press by those with the power to stop it
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Jan 2, 2019 02:13
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Raldikuk posted:I think most of the thread will disagree on the bolded. What matters is evidence, and you haven't posted any for that mischaracterization. quote:As far as the italicized they get to terrorize the palestinian population and punish them for daring to protest. It had the added benefit of getting the domestic population to salivate at the thought that the IDF is doing something to "protect" them from the very real and not imaginary existential threats the Israeli government had ginned up. I think your post really, profoundly misunderstands Israeli psychology and beliefs. Even the cynical, disingenuous actors in Israeli society, like Netanyahu and the Likud party, are motivated by maintaining and expanding power. The actual story for the Israeli public (not the IDF shooters in this incident) is a mix of fear and propaganda. This is a country that has given the peace camp large majorities in the past, and is still 50/50 politically. It's not a country of comic book villains thirsting for innocent blood - neither are the Palestinians, neither are the Americans whose tax dollars kill Yemenis, neither are the Iranians who are the same vis a vis Syrians. Trying to demonize and stereotype large groups of people is massively counterproductive as far as actually helping the Palestinians go.
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Jan 2, 2019 02:24
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Zionist Union is loving dead. It's partly a personality conflict, partly that former Kulanu member Avi Gabbay saw Livni as being too tied to the left, and wants to run on a joint list with Gantz and Ya'alon. Yachimovich is now the opposition leader, but in 2019 the Labor party disassociated with a former Likud member because they don't want to be seen as too left.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:04
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Kim Jong Il posted:What matters is evidence, and you haven't posted any for that mischaracterization. You're talking out of your rear end. There's a significant (not a majority, but still) part of the Jewish Israeli population that thirsts for blood. e especially the 18 year olds in the army. Maybe that's changed substantially over the last 6 years, but I doubt it.
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Jan 2, 2019 09:55
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Kim Jong Il posted:What matters is evidence, and you haven't posted any for that mischaracterization. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754814&userid=40745
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Jan 2, 2019 10:00
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I'd never encourage anyone to read all that, but here's a sampler from the latest page of it: Kim Jong Il posted:How is building a tunnel for abducting soldiers not a provocation? And keep in mind they did not respond to the tunnel by turning the dial to 10. Hamas was privy to the tit for tat escalation that followed. That doesn't justify what happened to civilians afterwards, but there was more than enough cause to retaliate against Hamas. Kim Jong Il posted:You heard Paine, if it's not banned by the ceasefire, it's not a provocation. Kim Jong Il posted:Going after civilians is wrong, going after military targets can be justified if you do a cost benefit analysis on the civilian casualties, and think about the long term escalatory effects of retaliation. Kim Jong Il posted:How exactly do you expect Israel to interpret a tunnel after the Shalit kidnapping? It was a naked provocation given Hamas's precedent for kidnapping.
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Jan 2, 2019 12:55
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What I'm more interested in at this moment is why KJI continues posting in this thread. At this point it's like trying to drain a river with a bucket, my dude.
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Jan 2, 2019 13:36
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Miftan posted:There's a significant (not a majority, but still) part of the Jewish Israeli population that thirsts for blood. That sure is an oddly specific phrasing.
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Jan 2, 2019 13:41
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:That sure is an oddly specific phrasing. Miftan's speaking from his time in the IDF, IIRC.
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Jan 2, 2019 13:45
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Yeah, and also there's a lot of non Jewish Israelis who are Arabs and so don't thirst for their own blood.
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Jan 2, 2019 14:01
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Ultramega posted:What I'm more interested in at this moment is why KJI continues posting in this thread. At this point it's like trying to drain a river with a bucket, my dude. Aren't there literally people paid to do PR work for Israel by posting? I doubt SA would be a target, though, and of course there are also just good old fashioned brainwormed ideologues willing to carry water for just about any awful thing you can think of. I don't know which explanation I would find more discomfiting with regards to KJI's perseveration..
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Jan 2, 2019 14:19
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People seriously need to stop engaging with KJI. I’ve seen recently where he will respond to stuff posted days ago just to argue with people.
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Jan 2, 2019 14:58
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Mr. Lobe posted:Aren't there literally people paid to do PR work for Israel by posting? I doubt SA would be a target, though, and of course there are also just good old fashioned brainwormed ideologues willing to carry water for just about any awful thing you can think of. Hasbara, right? I remember it used to be a meme in this thread to accuse everyone else of being a Hasbara shill and then mods said doing so would get you probed.
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Jan 2, 2019 15:15
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Kim Jong Il posted:It's not a country of comic book villains thirsting for innocent blood
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Jan 2, 2019 15:16
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I think KJI is a healthy part of the thread's ecosphere, because he'll latch onto any disingenuous pro-Israel point, and watching people with actual knowledge and experience taking them down is good practice for coming across it in the wild. I also abhor both-sides-ism, but this thread was my first foray into a non-mainstream take on the I/P conflict, and having someone who represents the mainstream view sure helped me understand how hosed up it is. I like to imagine he's doing as much to help lurkers come to their own conclusions as anyone posting reputable sources in the thread.
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Jan 2, 2019 15:46
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Lmao a guy on reddit is trying to tell me how the occupied territories constitute a jewish apartheid because jews aren't allowed to live there. I'm having a loving stroke.
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Jan 2, 2019 17:18
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Ultramega posted:the occupied territories... jews aren't allowed to live there. Someone should tell that to the settlers, then.
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Jan 2, 2019 17:21
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I don't want to contaminate this thread too much but wow holy gently caress this dude kept bringing up how palestinian cities like halhul or ramallah are effectively apartheid cities concerning jews which is really loving funny considering the situation in Hebron.
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Jan 2, 2019 17:58
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It's just basic false equivalence; projecting the crimes of the oppressor onto the victims. The point is basically that occupied territories are occupied by Israel, which means that any problem you can have with whatever happens there is Israel's responsibility, and therefore he should blame Israel for that. As long as Palestine will not be fully independent and sovereign, nothing can meaningfully be blamed on Palestine.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:35
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