|
Grape posted:The Black Panthers are anti-imperialist. Agreed. -- Honestly, why would anyone support Assad over re-united superpower?
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 20:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 18:36 |
|
|
Whenever someone says the word anti imperialist its time to block em and continue status quo. This bs argument is like the traveling fair it goes from one thread to another never progressing to more than arguing who is more anti imperialist.
WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jan 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 20:54
|
|
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Ottomana
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:06
|
|
|
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rebellions_in_Ottoman_Turkey
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:15
|
|
|
It's funny, your reading comprehension failed you in a short wikipedia entry consisting of only three paragraphs. quote:The term is preferred in particular by historians and writers who hold a positive view of Ottoman rule to underline the positive impact of Ottoman rule on the conquered regions. They compare it favourably with instability experienced before the Ottoman conquest and with the period after World War I, when only Asia Minor and Eastern Thrace remained under Turkish rule.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:18
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:The party itself hasn't been banned yet (though calls to ban it are becoming more vocal), but a bunch of members and some leaders have been arrested. A military dictatorship still would have probably been worse though, given that the word Kurds was banned last time they had a military dictatorship, and they used to depopulate and destroy entire villages back then. If we discount the regime withdrawing from Rojava, and the PKK taking over the area, I think Ras al-Ayn was the real start point. That's where Turkey first came at the PYD militarily, and utilized jihadist groups while doing it. For the next year, Turkey and the PKK talked poo poo about each other while continuing the peace process, but it all felt scripted. Then Kobane came along and Turkey refused to allow PKK fighters to cross the border to defend the city. Some police were killed and a bunch of riots happened in response, which reopened the front inside Turkey. Things settled down for a bit, but public sentiment at that point between the Turkish government and PKK supporters was such that all it needed was a match. The HDP election, and then the hostility after the Ankara bombings, provided it. ISIS kept strategically bombing PKK aligned gatherings, and the PKK and TAK hit back with attacks inside Turkey since they viewed Turkey and ISIS as one and the same. CTRL-F Turkey on this page. With that being the situation, and with the context of the recent coup attempt, Euphrates Shield kicked off on the 24th.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:22
|
|
|
Jamal al-Badawi, big player in the USS Cole bombing, killed in airstrike. Good riddance. https://www.npr.org/2019/01/06/682658506/militant-suspected-of-uss-cole-bombing-is-killed-in-u-s-airstrike-trump-says pro starcraft loser fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jan 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:28
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:It's funny, your reading comprehension failed you in a short wikipedia entry consisting of only three paragraphs. "lol look at what a loving mess Africa has become! Europe should never have left."
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:42
|
|
|
And these things come from embracing that you are a multi ethnic power, not the hypernationalist ethnostate which is what modern Turkey has been promoting since its founding and which is at the core of the Turkey-kurd conflict.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:44
|
|
|
HorrificExistence posted:The Ottoman empire was the greatest force for anti-imperialism in the 19th century. Why wouldn't you go to bat for it? You wanna keep supporting colonial successor states? My great grandfather would disagree.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:47
|
|
|
Zudgemud posted:And these things come from embracing that you are a multi ethnic power, not the hypernationalist ethnostate which is what modern Turkey has been promoting since its founding and which is at the core of the Turkey-kurd conflict. Don't get it twisted, the Ottoman Empire didn't embrace diversity anymore than most pre-modern states did. It was a dynastic holding that wasn't looking through ethnic lenses in the first place because "aristocrats < everyone else". And this kind of whitewashy talk dovetails directly into modern Turkish nationalism.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:48
|
|
|
 Just a couple of guys really interested in historical regional peace.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:52
|
|
|
pro starcraft loser posted:Jamal al-Badawi, big player in the USS Cole bombing, killed in airstrike. Wait, I thought people in this very thread were suggesting that Turkey should just stop going after the PKK/YPG, and instead take the high road by forgiving and attempting to make amends with Kurds. So why is the USA not doing the same with Al Qaeda, and instead conducting what amounts to a revenge killing for a crime committed two loving decades ago? "But enraged_camel, they are terrorists!" Well, you see, it can be argued that the USS Cole was bombed because it was being used to oppress the Middle East. Who doesn't want to fight for their freedom, right?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:57
|
|
|
The YPG/PYD is not a terrorist organization. The HDP is not. The PKK is an insurgent group but like Hezbollah and the IRGC its kinda a stretch to lump them in with Al-Nusra, Ahrar Al-Sham, TIP, Zinki and especially ISIS. It’s especially hilarious that Turkey does, considering they low key supported Al-Nusra and allowed ISIS passage through their territory. loving Zinki, the Salafi shitheads that beheaded a 12 year old are in their TFSA. It’s also not offside to say that open support and sympathy exists in the country for groups like Al-Nusra and the Turkistan Islamic Party, and the AKP is sympathetic to them as well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 21:59
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:Wait, I thought people in this very thread were suggesting that Turkey should just stop going after the PKK/YPG, and instead take the high road by forgiving and attempting to make amends with Kurds. Yes I am well aware of the Turkish affinity for Al-Qaeda offshoots, thank you. They seem to have embraced your methods of ethnic and sectarian cleansing. They learnt from the best. Frond fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jan 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:01
|
|
|
The solution to all the chaos in the Middle East would be to take one of these kids and make them Caliph then conquer the entire thing in their name. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:01
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:So why is the USA not doing X Because the US is really stupid, impulsive and bloodthirsty. What the US does is great for getting caught in foreverwars, don't emulate the US. I would diss you for bringing up Al Qaeda at all in this context but sadly someone already beat me to it. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jan 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:06
|
|
|
While I condemn the group over Esenboga and Orly ASALA had the right idea when sending messages to the Turkish state.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:08
|
|
|
Frond posted:The YPG/PYD is not a terrorist organization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Protection_Units quote:According to U.S. Special Forces Commander General Raymond A. Thomas at the Aspen Security Forum in July 2017, the SDF is a PR-friendly name for the YPG, which Thomas personally suggested because the YPG is considered an arm of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), which is designated as a terrorist group by the U.S. government.[9][10] American Defense Secretary Ashton Carter confirmed "substantial ties" between the PYD/YPG and the PKK.[11] Testifying to the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee Congress, Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats, the top U.S. intelligence official, explicitly defined the YPG as the terrorist "PKK's militia force in Syria”.[12][13 Try again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:19
|
|
|
I think they're nicer terrorists than the ones Turkey is using
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:22
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:Because the US is really stupid, impulsive and bloodthirsty. What the US does is great for getting caught in foreverwars, don't emulate the US. Nah, sorry. You don't get to have your country push their own interests halfway around the world, and then criticize when other countries fight for their own interests on their own soil and around their own borders. "But I don't agree with the US" is just a loving cop out. Must be nice, reaping the benefits of decades of US imperialism while at the same time disconnecting yourself from its moral hazards.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:23
|
|
|
Grape posted:
I should go make a wikipedia article called "The turkish Peace"to reflect this great development in turkish politics so people on far away forums can quote a 3 paragraph wiki page
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:25
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:Nah, sorry. You don't get to have your country push their own interests halfway around the world, and then criticize when other countries fight for their own interests on their own soil and around their own borders. "But I don't agree with the US" is just a loving cop out. Must be nice, reaping the benefits of decades of US imperialism while at the same time disconnecting yourself from its moral hazards. Do you think the Turkish people will suffer at all when their pet militias torture more of Rojava's Kurds?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:25
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:Nah, sorry. You don't get to have your country push their own interests halfway around the world, and then criticize when other countries fight for their own interests on their own soil and around their own borders. Actually we do. Everyone has the right to say that both their own country and other countries are doing bad things.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:26
|
|
|
I think it's called democracy. You should try it sometime.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:27
|
|
|
Grape posted:Don't get it twisted, the Ottoman Empire didn't embrace diversity anymore than most pre-modern states did. It was a dynastic holding that wasn't looking through ethnic lenses in the first place because "aristocrats < everyone else". True, embracing is the wrong word to describe what I meant. I was trying to convey the fact that conformation to an ethnicity was not really an issue and focal point for the rulers and that were one of the things that made it successful at ruling such a vast and diverse empire for so long.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:28
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Actually we do. Everyone has the right to say that both their own country and other countries are doing bad things. Like I said, must be nice, having your own cake and eating it too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:32
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:Nah, sorry. You don't get to have your country push their own interests halfway around the world, and then criticize when other countries fight for their own interests on their own soil and around their own borders. "But I don't agree with the US" is just a loving cop out. Must be nice, reaping the benefits of decades of US imperialism while at the same time disconnecting yourself from its moral hazards. This is probably a good time to mention my inlaws are residents of a tiny extremely defenseless country that is half militarily occupied by Turkey. But by all means keep trotting out "NO SKIN IN GAME" as your sole non-argument. They have their crazy racist outbursts sometimes, but the funny thing is I've probably encountered less intense gently caress U ZERO SUM GAME bloodthirst from them, some of them literal refugee victims from Turkish ethnic cleansing in the 70's, who lost friends to it, than from you. A guy who I'm pretty sure doesn't even live in Turkey most of the time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:34
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:Like I said, must be nice, having your own cake and eating it too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:35
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:Nah, sorry. You don't get to have your country push their own interests halfway around the world, and then criticize when other countries fight for their own interests on their own soil and around their own borders. "But I don't agree with the US" is just a loving cop out. Must be nice, reaping the benefits of decades of US imperialism while at the same time disconnecting yourself from its moral hazards. He's still not American.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:35
|
|
|
Grape posted:This is probably a good time to mention my inlaws are residents of a tiny extremely defenseless country that is half militarily occupied by Turkey. But by all means keep trotting out "NO SKIN IN GAME" as your sole non-argument. I still can't get over that Turkey made a big turkish flag on the Cypriot border.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:36
|
|
|
Zudgemud posted:He's still not American. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:36
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:I still can't get over that Turkey made a big turkish flag on the Cypriot border. The most petty occupation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:37
|
|
|
Must be nice openly supporting authoritarian nationalists that violently oppress people and then have the temerity to critize others for recognizing their own countries' crimes. Just because you are an unrepentant nationalist toady willingly and enthusiastically complict in supporting your goverment's oppression, doesn't mean everyone else is too. AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jan 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:40
|
|
|
Grape posted:This is probably a good time to mention my inlaws are residents of a tiny extremely defenseless country that is half militarily occupied by Turkey. Cool story. quote:They have their crazy racist outbursts sometimes, but the funny thing is I've probably encountered less intense gently caress U ZERO SUM GAME bloodthirst from them, some of them literal refugee victims from Turkish ethnic cleansing in the 70's, who lost friends to it, than from you. The ethnic cleansing went both ways. You may want to read up on the island's history, and the history of Turkish-Greek relations before that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:42
|
|
|
Saying America is bad is imperialism
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:47
|
|
|
Though to be true, Sweden, just like all of western Europe, has been benefiting from US imperialism,   etc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:47
|
|
|
My wife has said that if Turkey invaded the south half of Cyprus she would take the first plane ticket home to probably die with her family. Anyway I'm just an American who has no idea what the reality on the ground is in the western asia region from my cushy unaffected life. Guess I should just not question renewed Turkish nationalist vigor and tendencies to spill over their borders and make violence. Grape fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jan 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:48
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:The ethnic cleansing went both ways. You may want to read up on the island's history, and the history of Turkish-Greek relations before that. Don't try to Cyprusplain to me thanks. Point is like I said, feel free to continue ranting and raving about plush western euros and americans who just don't like get it man. If you'd like I could demonstrate how to talk about local feelings in severely controversial conflicts without wholesale buying every stupid narrative one side rambles on about. Like how to be critical of it and stuff. Want me to show you? It's a lot easier than you seem to think! MiddleOne posted:I still can't get over that Turkey made a big turkish flag on the Cypriot border. I'd buy that it was a pride thing for the Turkish-Cypriots, except that it was very clearly made to be as visible as possible from the Greek side of Nicosia, including the main highway into the city from the south. Like you round a bend and BAM welcome to the capital, also neener neener gently caress u lol. To be fair I'm not sure if it was made by Turkey or the Turkish Cypriots, the distinction is super important. And areas of authority in the north is very hard sometimes to distinguish (though if it's malign it's probably Turkey). Marxist-Jezzinist posted:The most petty occupation. The pettiest thing of all is, as I've said before in here, the utter contempt held for the Turkish Cypriots by Turkey. Under Erdogan it's basically become "gently caress U UNGRATEFUL LITTLE BITCHES FOR ACTING LIKE A NATION WITH OPINIONS AND NOT AN OUTPOST OF HICKS". I swear there's some old Kurosawa movie or something where a village was saved from bandits by a swordsman, but decades later that swordsman rules the village with an iron abusive fist and constantly brings up that time he saved them (along with his sword) any time a complaint is made. That's North Cyprus and Turkey. Turkish Cypriots seem like cool people, and I've actually found it extremely rare among the Greeks for outright hate for them to exist, and I'm probably among some of the more "angry about 1974" parts of the population. They're the saddest part of the whole thing. Grape fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jan 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 22:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 18:36 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/NicholasDanfort/status/1081544785733869569 https://twitter.com/NicholasDanfort/status/1081556885554237440 [LET'S PLAY] Turkish Republic of Northern Syria
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2019 23:22
|
|
