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Captain No-mates posted:Reality doesn't matter, the media narrative would blame Corbyn. You're right why bother trying to do anything at all
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Jan 9, 2019 10:39
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Barry Foster posted:You're right why bother trying to do anything at all It's not a reason for not opposing May's poo poo deal but if there's no deal then it's pretty unavoidable it will be spun as Corbyn's fault. Who knows how much it would matter though
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Jan 9, 2019 11:08
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Nigel Farage is the single most idiotic duck to ever masturbate its way into politics.
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Jan 9, 2019 11:13
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On the other hand, the people who would primarily blame Labour for No Deal are hardly going to change their opinions regardless of what he does, as the career of noted far-left terrorist Ed Miliband should attest, so I don't get why Labour even needs to be so craven on Brexit Even if they somehow came up with and forced the govt to enact A Perfect Brexit whilst singing Die Wacht am Rhein it's not like gammons will thank them
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Jan 9, 2019 11:27
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The options as is are May’s Brexit or No Deal and the polling showed they’ll get a kicking for voting with May. They probably should have polled what happens if Labour votes it down, but then they wouldn’t be able to make disingenuous articles I guess.
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Jan 9, 2019 11:31
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Do the amedments say that parliament will withdraw A40 to avoid no deal? Because otherwise it is a vote to maybe have a vote.
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Jan 9, 2019 11:36
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no but, seeing as otherwise they wouldn't have a vote, having a vote seems like a positive step e: not that's a bad question, cancelling a50 is possibly the only way of avoiding no deal and it's not a step that anyone will be able to take lightly as it's basically calling the whole thing off just because they have a vote doesn't necessarily mean that the good result will happen XMNN has issued a correction as of 11:48 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 11:40
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genericnick posted:Do the amedments say that parliament will withdraw A40 to avoid no deal? Because otherwise it is a vote to maybe have a vote. They can't do something that specific because of 'parliamentary sovereignty' which includes the idea that Parliament cannot be bound by a previous decision. Even if you passed an amendment like that (which the Speaker would probably reject on those grounds) a later vote saying 'nah' will always take precedence That leaves you with indirect things like this one, where instead of saying 'no you can't do a thing' you say 'here are more procedural hoops and votes you will need to win to do thing'. It makes No Deal less likely to happen by accident but there's nothing stopping a panicking Tory Party rescinding the amendment the minute they have a majority for collecting taxes in a future No Deal hellworld E: or just voting for No Deal, which the amendment allows as a condition to ignore it Obliterati has issued a correction as of 11:46 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 11:41
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John Bercow has just done something that is apparently "constitutional fireworks". It's such an important principle that I have no idea why it's bad, but apparently if another amendment passes, May will have to come back to the commons with a new plan three days after her existing one gets voted down. "fireworks" https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1082953242127028224?s=19 tarbrush has issued a correction as of 11:59 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 11:57
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supposedly the amendment wasn't allowed but since we don't have an actual constitution what Bercow says goes and he's done it despite the fact its not supposed to be done
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Jan 9, 2019 12:01
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Moridin920 posted:For a while now I have legit thought that you could more or less pick Paradox forums posters at random and come up with a better set of world leaders. day one post brexit crash out the U.K. no-CB invades Georgia
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Jan 9, 2019 12:12
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Will it be adequate?
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Jan 9, 2019 12:17
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Avirosb posted:Will it be adequate? Almsot certainly. Although they're now briefing that no decision has been made.
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Jan 9, 2019 12:21
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Jel Shaker posted:day one post brexit crash out the U.K. no-CB invades
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Jan 9, 2019 12:21
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Jose posted:supposedly the amendment wasn't allowed but since we don't have an actual constitution what Bercow says goes and he's done it despite the fact its not supposed to be done lol at may running roughshod over parliamentary/constitutional conventions coming back to bite her in the arse she's such a short sighted moron
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Jan 9, 2019 12:24
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didn’t say which Georgia
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Jan 9, 2019 12:27
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The fun thing about an unwritten constitution is that this day was always going to come, where the insistence that there are secret arcane rules you have to follow gives way to this amateur hour Game of Thrones re-enactment. It's all made up and the conventions don't matter
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Jan 9, 2019 12:27
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Obliterati posted:The fun thing about an unwritten constitution is that this day was always going to come, where the insistence that there are secret arcane rules you have to follow gives way to this amateur hour Game of Thrones re-enactment. It's all made up and the conventions don't matter The US has a written constitution, but it's the same over here. They probably should have written more.
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Jan 9, 2019 12:30
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XMNN posted:lol at may running roughshod over parliamentary/constitutional conventions coming back to bite her in the arse Consequences happening to those that deserve them is the only mildly bearable bit of this shitshow.
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Jan 9, 2019 12:31
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Is this more or less of a constitutional crisis than the time John Major punched the Queen?
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Jan 9, 2019 12:36
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I feel sure I would have remembered that happening?
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Jan 9, 2019 12:37
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Regarde Aduck posted:Article is written around a dumb yougov poll. Let’s ignore that. Ok yes it will be bad for Corbyn if he doesn’t resist Brexit. I agree. But this article doesn’t seem to give a gently caress that the whole reason this is such a mess is that plenty of Labour voters voted leave. Would it have stopped Leave from passing though? Since that's what is going to destroy the country. Seems like a failure to fall on his sword for the nation may have put him in a worse position than Remaining but not ever getting to be PM. As is he'll maybe be PM of a shattered country.
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Jan 9, 2019 12:37
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namesake posted:Is this more or less of a constitutional crisis than the time John Major punched the Queen? That was just bants
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Jan 9, 2019 12:41
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If I was a Labour voter I know what would have got me out to vote is our leader campaigning alongside the Tories.
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Jan 9, 2019 12:42
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Jel Shaker posted:didn’t say which Georgia There's only one in coring range 
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Jan 9, 2019 12:42
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Jel Shaker posted:day one post brexit crash out the U.K. no-CB invades Georgia due to a bug in the brexit event script, the UK’s entire land area changes to wasteland
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Jan 9, 2019 12:44
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Fans posted:If I was a Labour voter I know what would have got me out to vote is our leader campaigning alongside the Tories. If the issue of Remain vs Leave didn't cross political boundaries it wouldn't have passed. Failing to rise above the petty poo poo of Tory vs Labour when the country's future is on the line is and should be deeply damning.
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Jan 9, 2019 12:46
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Relevant Tangent posted:Would it have stopped Leave from passing though? Since that's what is going to destroy the country. Seems like a failure to fall on his sword for the nation may have put him in a worse position than Remaining but not ever getting to be PM. As is he'll maybe be PM of a shattered country. There are no good options for anyone. He seems to prefer being PM of a shattered country, which is not an unreasonable position given that either May's deal or no deal require an enormous amount of further negotiations with the EU, which will actually meaningfully affect what kind of country Britain will be for years. As a remainder, I wish more than anything that the right choice was for him to loudly back remain/people's vote, but it's not. The whole of Parliament is caught in a prisoners dilemma, where doing what's in the national interested involves dousing yourself in petrol and destroying any future personal electoral prospects. He deserves 1/650th of the blame for not being willing to do it, but it's hard to hold that against him when part of the reason that tory remainers wont nuke the government is that they seem like they'd pick no deal over a Labour government
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Jan 9, 2019 12:47
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Relevant Tangent posted:If the issue of Remain vs Leave didn't cross political boundaries it wouldn't have passed. Failing to rise above the petty poo poo of Tory vs Labour when the country's future is on the line is and should be deeply damning. Being angry people did it doesn’t change their vote. I don’t see how Corbyn campaigning on the same stage as Cameron helps. For many Labour voters sharing a platform with a Tory is an incredible betrayal
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Jan 9, 2019 12:51
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tarbrush posted:I feel sure I would have remembered that happening? There's grainy footage of the event. Punch tape is real. Barry Foster posted:That was just bants Ah maybe so.
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Jan 9, 2019 12:54
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Fans posted:Being angry people did it doesn’t change their vote. I don’t see how Corbyn campaigning on the same stage as Cameron helps. For many Labour voters sharing a platform with a Tory is an incredible betrayal Tories are both for and against brexit though, right? There's no way to avoid agreeing with somebody?
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Jan 9, 2019 12:58
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SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:Tories are both for and against brexit though, right? There's no way to avoid agreeing with somebody? The MPs are sort of split, their voter base is strongly leave. Brexit really cleaved through the Tory parliamentary party and the Labour voter base.
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Jan 9, 2019 13:00
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Fans posted:Being angry people did it doesn’t change their vote. I don’t see how Corbyn campaigning on the same stage as Cameron helps. For many Labour voters sharing a platform with a Tory is an incredible betrayal For our American posters, openly and extensively teaming up with the Tories in the Scottish Indyref is much of why the Labour party there is third place in a good week, so there really was precedent for avoiding doing that again
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Jan 9, 2019 13:05
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Obliterati posted:For our American posters, openly and extensively teaming up with the Tories in the Scottish Indyref is much of why the Labour party there is third place in a good week, so there really was precedent for avoiding doing that again I don't think we would have the same reaction about Democrats teaming up with Republicans, but I wish we would. 
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Jan 9, 2019 13:11
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Obliterati posted:For our American posters, openly and extensively teaming up with the Tories in the Scottish Indyref is much of why the Labour party there is third place in a good week, so there really was precedent for avoiding doing that again Presumably the sacrifice of Labour's chances was worth keeping the UK united and such. I dig that Corbyn thinks he comes out ahead politically if No Deal somehow happens it just seems like stopping the deaths of thousands/millions would have been worth it. The Tories being stupid short-sighted shits was a given and they still managed to get a Remain campaign together.
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Jan 9, 2019 13:13
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prefect posted:The US has a written constitution, but it's the same over here. They probably should have written more. It's also loving old
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Jan 9, 2019 13:13
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Relevant Tangent posted:Presumably the sacrifice of Labour's chances was worth keeping the UK united and such. I dig that Corbyn thinks he comes out ahead politically if No Deal somehow happens it just seems like stopping the deaths of thousands/millions would have been worth it. The Tories being stupid short-sighted shits was a given and they still managed to get a Remain campaign together. But the question is who is this Leave voter who just needed to see Corbyn and Cameron on stage together to change their mind? It wouldn’t make Labour or Conservative voters happy to see it, who is it even for?
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Jan 9, 2019 13:20
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Relevant Tangent posted:Presumably the sacrifice of Labour's chances was worth keeping the UK united and such. Welcome to the classic conundrum of the Labour Party, socialism or the Empire E: literally sharing platforms with the Tories caused Yes-No to go from 25-75 to 45-55 in eighteen months as the left abandoned Labour
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Jan 9, 2019 13:20
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Relevant Tangent posted:Presumably the sacrifice of Labour's chances was worth keeping the UK united and such. I dig that Corbyn thinks he comes out ahead politically if No Deal somehow happens it just seems like stopping the deaths of thousands/millions would have been worth it. The Tories being stupid short-sighted shits was a given and they still managed to get a Remain campaign together. Well over 120,000 people have been killed by combined Lib Dem and Tory austerity. The disaster is already happening, Brexit is a symptom of it, not a cause.
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Jan 9, 2019 13:22
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Relevant Tangent posted:Presumably the sacrifice of Labour's chances was worth keeping the UK united and such. I dig that Corbyn thinks he comes out ahead politically if No Deal somehow happens it just seems like stopping the deaths of thousands/millions would have been worth it. The Tories being stupid short-sighted shits was a given and they still managed to get a Remain campaign together. Corbyn (and labour generally) campaigned extensively for remain, although separately from the torjes after the vote though, a major party can't really go "yeah, right gently caress off" to the electorate no matter how much you or I or they might have wanted to. Not only is it sort of bad from a democratic point of view it would have achieved nothing because they did not have the power to stop it the best they could have done is try to mitigate the damage by defeating the government on winnable marginal things that would at least curb their excesses, keep them accountable to parliament and (hopefully) stop no deal whilst paying lip service to doing the good Brexit ... coincidentally that's exactly what they did
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Jan 9, 2019 13:29
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