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OEMs can’t update their phones because they are dependent on chip makers. 1) google releases an android release, with some kernel. 2) chip vendor forks that, makes it work on their chip with their proprietary drivers. 3) phone vendor forks that, adds drivers for their phone hardware. chip vendors don’t give a poo poo about last year’s chips. those are already sold. they are working on shipping next year’s chips with next year’s android. they don’t have a relationship with the end users. updating does not benefit them in any way, it just costs them money. so stage 2 never gets updated for any chipset that’s already on the market, and that’s why android phones never get kernel updates.
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Jan 16, 2019 05:45
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The Management posted:OEMs can’t update their phones because they are dependent on chip makers. this is what delusional apple brownshirts actually believe Lutha Mahtin fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Jan 17, 2019 |
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Jan 17, 2019 08:04
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I mean , I believe it based on observation. This observation is skewed by the “it still works fine so I just keep using <6 year old phone>” and “I turned off/don’t want updates that poo poo breaks/slows down/changes things” groups .
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Jan 17, 2019 11:52
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Lutha Mahtin posted:this is what delusional apple brownshirts actually believe lol. if you have some evidence otherwise, we'd love to see it
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Jan 17, 2019 14:15
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we would?
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Jan 17, 2019 16:07
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Lutha Mahtin posted:this is what delusional apple brownshirts actually believe 
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Jan 17, 2019 16:39
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are the different android versions (e.g. "marshmallow", "nougat", etc) not different kernel versions? b/c my nexus 5x went from 6.0 to 8.0 (8.1? can't remember)
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Jan 17, 2019 18:12
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Lutha Mahtin posted:this is what delusional apple brownshirts actually believe you know you can actually, like, go look at the source code for android and see exactly how its update mechanism works, right?
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Jan 17, 2019 18:38
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Lutha Mahtin posted:this is what delusional apple brownshirts actually believe oh word?
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Jan 17, 2019 18:51
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:are the different android versions (e.g. "marshmallow", "nougat", etc) not different kernel versions? b/c my nexus 5x went from 6.0 to 8.0 (8.1? can't remember) no, they're just cutesie names for various versions that don't really correspond to anything. e.g. 4.0 was ice cream sandwich, 4.1-4.3 were all jelly bean and 4.4 was kit kat. each of these had multiple api levels. they do generally update the kernel with each release, but as noted above, phones getting a update don't get the kernel update and instead everything is backported to the older kernel. donut and eclair had the same kernel. to get a new kernel you have to buy a new phone. (nexuses May be different here)
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Jan 17, 2019 19:28
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android oems are no longer beholden to chip makers to be able to release os updates, at least.
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Jan 17, 2019 19:36
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its kinda funny that binary drivers on an open source kernel is creating more e-waste than a fully closed source ecosystem
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Jan 17, 2019 22:10
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Not really? Open source software (and, to a lesser extent, hardware) is incredibly wasteful because it's predominantly made by incompetent amateurs with no budget, scope or timeline
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Jan 17, 2019 22:22
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if it were worth anything it wouldn't be free
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Jan 17, 2019 23:48
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Sagebrush posted:Not really? Open source software (and, to a lesser extent, hardware) is incredibly wasteful because it's predominantly made by incompetent amateurs with no budget, scope or timeline sagebrush please stop signing your posts with my identity, it's really causing a lot of confusion.
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Jan 18, 2019 02:01
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Sagebrush posted:Not really? Open source software (and, to a lesser extent, hardware) is incredibly wasteful because it's predominantly made by incompetent amateurs with no budget, scope or timeline like google
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Jan 18, 2019 02:01
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what open source software does google make these days?
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Jan 18, 2019 02:04
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android is still open sores it's just even more unusable without the closed source parts
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Jan 18, 2019 02:56
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Endless Mike posted:didn't know android maker htc was an apple brownshirt I mean: wouldn't you be? I'd imagine butchers don't eat a lot of sausage?
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Jan 18, 2019 03:06
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i like that the android phone is pooped out of the android in that infographic
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Jan 18, 2019 03:16
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Endless Mike posted:didn't know android maker htc was an apple brownshirt updates are stored in the balls
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Jan 18, 2019 05:48
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Sagebrush posted:Not really? Open source software (and, to a lesser extent, hardware) is incredibly wasteful because it's predominantly made by incompetent amateurs with no budget, scope or timeline in this it is totally different from proprietary software, which is predominantly made by incompetent professionals with impossibly optimistic budget, scope, and timeline
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Jan 18, 2019 09:27
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timeline: move fast, break things
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Jan 18, 2019 09:35
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Endless Mike posted:didn't know android maker htc was an apple brownshirt lol according to this three different companies (at least) are required to make an update for an android phone no wonder they never get updates
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Jan 18, 2019 22:28
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My Linux Rig posted:lol according to this three different companies (at least) are required to make an update for an android phone i like the terminal state buried 30% of the way down after step 5: chipset manufacturer says "lol no thx" and no updates for anyone
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Jan 18, 2019 22:36
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Android updates haven't worked that way in a while now
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Jan 19, 2019 05:09
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Celexi posted:Android updates haven't worked that way in a while now Androids don't generally get updates
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Jan 19, 2019 05:30
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Celexi posted:Android updates haven't worked [...] in a while now
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Jan 19, 2019 06:31
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Celexi posted:[Haven't] Android updates [...]
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Jan 19, 2019 23:23
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[Tell] Me When My Android Device Will Get Updated 0 replies
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Jan 20, 2019 01:46
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so if that huge flowchart isn’t accurate anymore, what’s it like now?
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Jan 20, 2019 01:55
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Helianthus Annuus posted:so if that huge flowchart isn’t accurate anymore, what’s it like now? youve still got the problem with qualcomm not supporting older socs but starting a few versions ago the big oems get involved with the update as google is developing it to shorten their time modifying it and starting with the devices in the last year or so a much better abstraction layer has been implemented so that updates can be done that dont need qualcomms cooperation but there hasnt been enough time with that to see if its improved things involving the oems did speed up updates by about a year so your major phones are generally only about six months out of date now. ofc security updates come more often but then its been shown they also lie about whether they fixed anything so they cant be trusted
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Jan 20, 2019 04:57
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Helianthus Annuus posted:so if that huge flowchart isn’t accurate anymore, what’s it like now? project treble defined stable abi's, so upgrades now don't require driver updates and thus needs no soc vendor involvement. you'll still want to get on android one (i.e. clean install which gets updates pushed by google on schedule) to reliably get the advantage of it
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Jan 20, 2019 13:20
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so they fixed upgrades by ensure that the kernel could never under any circumstances be upgraded?
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Jan 20, 2019 15:58
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infernal machines posted:so they fixed upgrades by ensure that the kernel could never under any circumstances be upgraded? Why on good green earth would any carrier conspire with an osp to give the consumer options?
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Jan 20, 2019 16:05
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infernal machines posted:so they fixed upgrades by ensure that the kernel could never under any circumstances be upgraded? not entirely accurate, but, sure, so? like, rhel fixes the kernel for a full decade at a time, why would you expend any effort or risk any regression by switching around kernels on a device which is hugely unlikely to survive more than a third of that period? it is absolutely the correct choice to just have a cycle of kernels but lock each device onto one which it can be fully validated on, it is *incredibly* rare that new kernels will offer any feature which an end user would notice or appreciate
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Jan 20, 2019 20:01
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okay, so android only gets userland updates, maybe, but it doesn't matter because the phones are disposable anyway. yeah, that scans
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Jan 20, 2019 20:51
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infernal machines posted:okay, so android only gets userland updates, maybe, but it doesn't matter because the phones are disposable anyway. it doesn't matter because kernel (feature level) updates give you absolutely nothing of value to an actual phone user or app developer and, yeah, if redhat can keep a kernel running for 10 years so can google, and 10 years is a sufficient lifetime for a phone for the foreseeable future. it is a good plan (which is however not the actual plan, google has a whole towering set of abstractions which are meant to make it possible to indeed swap kernels freely as well, which i doubt will ever get used but makes treble so complicated that i doubt it'll actually stick in the long run)
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Jan 20, 2019 22:30
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by coincidence one of the android blogs just had an article looking into whether updates are coming any quicker the answer? yes except they didnt count the 2 of 3 oems who have yet to release the relevant update against the average so its faster for samsung and huawei and lg are still at least half a year behind current
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Jan 21, 2019 02:24
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LastInLine posted:by coincidence one of the android blogs just had an article looking into whether updates are coming any quicker the answer? yes except they didnt count the 2 of 3 oems who have yet to release the relevant update against the average so its faster for samsung and huawei and lg are still at least half a year behind current wait so it faster for samsung and huawei, or just samsung?
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Jan 21, 2019 21:44
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