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Graphic
Sep 4, 2018

It's like Lenin said
https://twitter.com/existentialcoms/status/1042215250282471424

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Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


https://twitter.com/JacobAWohl/status/1085953475207286784?s=19

Dreddout
Oct 1, 2015

You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

Coldwar mindset

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

theres just no way to be sure

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

cortez...she could be an agent for the spanish crown

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009




Soiled Meat
love teaching Americans about their foreign propaganda arms, Radio Free Asia and Voice of America

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

BULBASAUR posted:

love teaching Americans about their foreign propaganda arms, Radio Free Asia and Voice of America

It's still (?) technically illegal for the US government to propagandize to its own people through any media arm, so we're never exposed to RFA or VoA.

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It's still (?) technically illegal for the US government to propagandize to its own people through any media arm, so we're never exposed to RFA or VoA.

No no, it's only legal for the FBI to propogandize to it's own people.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It's still (?) technically illegal for the US government to propagandize to its own people through any media arm, so we're never exposed to RFA or VoA.

quote:

Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012

The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012[35] was introduced by U.S. Congressman Mac Thornberry on May 10, 2012 in the House of Representatives. U.S. Congressman Adam Smith (politician) was a Co-Sponsor.[35] The bill purpose is "to authorize the domestic dissemination of information and material about the United States intended primarily for foreign audiences"[35] The act was added to the 2013 NDAA bill as section of 1078 to amend certain passages of Smith-Mundt Act of 1948

The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012 passed Congress as part of the NDAA 2013 on December 28, 2012.[36] Amendments made to the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948 and Foreign Relations Authorization Act of 1987 allow for materials produced by the State Department and the Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG) to be released within US borders.[37][38][39] U.S. Congressmen Adam Smith stated with the respect to the bill's purpose that al-Qaeda was infiltrating the Internet in order to promote anti-American sentiments and that with passage of the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012 the US government would be able disseminate public diplomacy information by the State department to counter that in the Arabic language abroad

quote:

The Countering Foreign Propaganda and Disinformation Act is a bipartisan bill which was introduced by the United States Congress on 10 May 2016. The bill was initially entitled the Countering Information Warfare Act.

The bipartisan legislation was written in March 2016 by U.S. Senators Rob Portman (R, OH) and Chris Murphy (D, CT). It was additionally introduced in the United States House of Representatives in a bipartisan fashion; co-sponsors included Congressmen Adam Kinzinger (R, IL) and Ted Lieu (D, CA).

In both the House and Senate the bill was included in the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 2017. It passed the House in this fashion in a conference report vote on 2 December 2016. The Senate then passed the measure in a conference report on December 8 by a tally of 92–7.

The Washington Post and the International Business Times reported that after the 2016 U.S. presidential election, worries grew that propaganda spread and organized by the Russian government swayed the outcome of the election, and representatives in the U.S. Congress took action to safeguard the National security of the United States by advancing legislation to monitor incoming propaganda from external threats.[1][6] On November 30, 2016, legislators approved a measure within the National Defense Authorization Act to ask the U.S. State Department to take action against foreign propaganda through an interagency panel.[1][6] The legislation authorized funding of $160 million over a two-year-period.[1][7] Portman urged more U.S. government action to counter disinformation and propaganda.[1] Murphy said that after the election it was apparent the U.S. needed additional tactics to fight Russian disinformation.[1] Senator Ron Wyden, a member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, told The Washington Post: "There is definitely bipartisan concern about the Russian government engaging in covert influence activities of this nature."[1]

In the version of the bill incorporated into the 2017 National Defense Authorization Act, the U.S. Congress would ask the United States Secretary of State to collaborate with the United States Secretary of Defense and other relevant Federal agencies to create a Global Engagement Center (GEC) to fight against propaganda from foreign governments, and publicize the nature of ongoing foreign propaganda and disinformation operations against the U.S. and other countries.[10] The bill said this inter-agency effort should: "counter foreign propaganda and disinformation directed against United States national security interests and proactively advance fact-based narratives that support United States allies and interests."[7] As of March 2018, none of the GEC's 23 analysts speaks Russian.[11]

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1085712809764122625?s=19

big business man
Sep 30, 2012

https://twitter.com/BlackSocialists/status/1085954525519904769

checkmate

THS
Sep 15, 2017

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It's still (?) technically illegal for the US government to propagandize to its own people through any media arm, so we're never exposed to RFA or VoA.

oh its legal now

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

lol what the gently caress is this

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

actually the Soviet Union was good

big business man
Sep 30, 2012

make sure y'all donate to their gofundme or whatever. costs a lotta resources to make dumbass tweets and solicit noam chomskys endorsement via email

Graphic
Sep 4, 2018

It's like Lenin said

gradenko_2000 posted:

actually the Soviet Union was good

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991


https://twitter.com/BlackSocialists/status/1085515195848507394

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

countdown until the bsa guy handcuffs himself to twitter headquarters loomer-style

Kurnugia
Sep 2, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

R. Guyovich posted:

countdown until the bsa guy handcuffs himself to twitter headquarters loomer-style

ins'Allah

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003

lol

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Remember when AOC met with them for some reason

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Remember when AOC met with them for some reason

You shouldn't post in here either

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
its bad enough that libs feel safe to post in the socdem thread. please dont post in the Lenin Lover thread thanks and god bless.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/BlackSocialists/status/1086276792229359623

big business man
Sep 30, 2012


lmao


yes im sure that lenin would agree that the ussr wasnt actually existing socialism

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

It's trite how often these sorts of socdems and anarchists keep bringing up the USSR and China, or the USSR and North Korea, when Cuba is an unambiguous success of actually existing socialism.

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It's trite how often these sorts of socdems and anarchists keep bringing up the USSR and China, or the USSR and North Korea, when Cuba is an unambiguous success of actually existing socialism.

with Cuba they often bring up LGBT rights violations despite the fact that many first-world countries were worse about them at the time those violations occurred, and that after a massive campaign to educate the population they overturned that status quo exponentially faster than the US did and have been one of the world leaders in recognizing those rights for decades now.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Vietnam is pretty cool too imo

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It's trite how often these sorts of socdems and anarchists keep bringing up the USSR and China, or the USSR and North Korea, when Cuba is an unambiguous success of actually existing socialism.

there's many people within both those tendencies who do support cuba tho

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


gradenko_2000 posted:

Vietnam is pretty cool too imo

doi moi was even more extensive and capitalist than chinese liberalization.

THS
Sep 15, 2017

“interesting” back and forth between bhaskar sunkara and hamilton nolan in Jacobin. hamilton nolan got succcccccc real fast

Let’s Talk Bernie 2020

this is a pretty good cross section of what are probably the two most visible sections of the social democratic left in the US that have a wide platform

regardless of how i feel about electoralism in general, and regardless of the Issues i have with jacobin, sunkara makes cogent points about the qualitative difference between having a capitalist who wants to put in more wonky regulations and Sanders who, at least rhetorically, is a socialist and is opposed on some fundamental level to capital

anyway hamilton nolan is cancelled. it’s especially disappointing because he used to write some pretty forceful and uncompromising stuff back in the gawker days. there’s a number of “progressive” journalists adjacent to the socialist movement who seem to have moved right in the last couple years, either for careerist reasons, or demoralization, or they have just lost the plot

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Presidential elections are how Americans process politics, and regardless of how you feel about electoralism, if you don't play the game you're never going to reach the vast majority of people. Compromising your support for left wing candidates isn't some kind of strategic calculus, it's just delaying the spread of class consciousness for 4 more years.

Victory Position
Mar 16, 2004

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It's trite how often these sorts of socdems and anarchists keep bringing up the USSR and China, or the USSR and North Korea, when Cuba is an unambiguous success of actually existing socialism.

Vietnam: ??? ???????, A Primer on Asian Socialism

THS
Sep 15, 2017

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Presidential elections are how Americans process politics, and regardless of how you feel about electoralism, if you don't play the game you're never going to reach the vast majority of people. Compromising your support for left wing candidates isn't some kind of strategic calculus, it's just delaying the spread of class consciousness for 4 more years.

i agree with that. and it’s why sunkara’s position that there’s no one else on the national stage even plausibly left of polite democratic party capitalism except sanders rings true

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003
the real failure of sanders is that he has refused to use his popularity to create an independent and organized mass movement. whether you think hes a socialist or social dem or liberal or whatever, the support he has could easily translate into at the very least a 10% popular vote running as an independent or 3rd party candidate and probably even more. that kind of base could form the foundations of a new mass socialist or labor party that could bring together the different left political tendencies into a specifically anti-capitalist national political party. obviously that would not overnight solve all the issues facing socialists in american politics, but it would objectively advance the political consciousness of the working class and advance militant labor struggles throughout the country in a really momentous way.

the complete failure of sanders or a lot of his supporters in the social democratic left milieu to advance this idea means that now we are left with the most widely read socialist publication debating which democrat should be supported or endorsed by socialists. the very issue of whether even a self described socialist running as a democrat like sanders should even be supported or endorsed by socialists should really be the debate that is being held, but because of his and other socialists' failure to raise the need for a broad based working class party, the sanders movement and a lot of the jacobin left have basically served as sheepdogs for the democrats since trumps election. because of this we are now in a situation where some "socialists" are supporting not even vaguely anti-capitalist candidates, like warren or gabbard.

Victory Position
Mar 16, 2004

You'd think that Our Revolution would have hit the ground running after 2016, but it seems that they were on a treadmill the whole time. I'm guessing they were in training for the marathon that is 2020? If so, that's awfully narrow of them, given that if folks are open to socialist ideas,

I'm gesturing with my hands, and boy do I look exasperated

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003
sorry for continued serious effort posts, but sunkara and ackerman and the wing of DSA that supports them have really acted as a brake on the socialist movement over the last 2 years imo. they continue to advance the idea of using the dem ballot line to build the rudiments of a "party within a party" but they dont really have the organization or clear politics on how this would be accomplished. candidates like AOC dont have any accountability to a larger movement or an organization so theres no way to hold them to this kind of long term plan, theres no agreement about it within the broader DSA membership base so its not like all the members are acting in a unified way on this point, and it also ignores that for a real labor or socialist party to be built it has to be built from the ground with serious support in the working class, not by some kind of electoral trick where you sneak enough socialists into office while hiding that theyre socialists.

the result of this is again, that basically theyve been sheepdogs for the democrats and so many folks who came out of 2016 on the path to developing revolutionary politics have basically been taught to get back into the democrats and play this long con that will never end. if anyone hasnt read it, I'd suggest reading ackerman's article "A new party of a new type" because it basically lays out what a lot of the DSA brass have in mind in terms of the future and I really that it's disingenuous to the extreme. to really make their strategy of just using the dem ballot line work (if it even can which Im skeptical of) theyd have to be clear, consistent, and uncompromising in their criticism of the democratic party, even while running candidates within it. instead, the DSA candidates that have run as dems have basically painted themselves as "real" democrats in the vein of FDR with no criticism of the party or its class nature.

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/07/electoral-rules-third-party-ballot-line-ocasio-cortez-dsa

Graphic
Sep 4, 2018

It's like Lenin said
I'll endorse Bernie Sanders when he endorses Vladimir Lenin.

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Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


apropos to nothing posted:

the real failure of sanders is that he has refused to use his popularity to create an independent and organized mass movement. whether you think hes a socialist or social dem or liberal or whatever, the support he has could easily translate into at the very least a 10% popular vote running as an independent or 3rd party candidate and probably even more. that kind of base could form the foundations of a new mass socialist or labor party that could bring together the different left political tendencies into a specifically anti-capitalist national political party. obviously that would not overnight solve all the issues facing socialists in american politics, but it would objectively advance the political consciousness of the working class and advance militant labor struggles throughout the country in a really momentous way.

the complete failure of sanders or a lot of his supporters in the social democratic left milieu to advance this idea means that now we are left with the most widely read socialist publication debating which democrat should be supported or endorsed by socialists. the very issue of whether even a self described socialist running as a democrat like sanders should even be supported or endorsed by socialists should really be the debate that is being held, but because of his and other socialists' failure to raise the need for a broad based working class party, the sanders movement and a lot of the jacobin left have basically served as sheepdogs for the democrats since trumps election. because of this we are now in a situation where some "socialists" are supporting not even vaguely anti-capitalist candidates, like warren or gabbard.

Lol

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