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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CNspeQYplk This finally got leaked just a few months ago, after having been suppressed from release since the reception of the UK documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0n_Dke18Co https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4gh2IRjKwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtcNfD6SwC4
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Jan 20, 2019 01:33
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Post some sources for this ridiculous speculation because it's open information now that Russia was offering half a billion dollar deals for influence i thought you guys were still freaking out about the facebook ads they spent four thousand dollars on, sorry.
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Jan 20, 2019 01:34
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Didn't they also have a secret pathway into the treasury departments financial crimes unit?
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Jan 20, 2019 01:34
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Your Parents posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CNspeQYplk Your Parents posted:i thought you guys were still freaking out about the facebook ads they spent four thousand dollars on, sorry. Well that sure is compelling, I am convinced now that Russia has not been a threat compared to those dastardly democrats
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Jan 20, 2019 01:35
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What is the actual threat posed by Russia to the United States?
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Jan 20, 2019 01:37
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To keep this linked to the stories being discussed: Israeli lobbying and the overlap between the perception of Isreali interests and American interests within the foreign policy blob actively contributes to America's massive spending on its military and its tendency to invade and blow up other countries. The Israeli lobby almost certainly does inflict more harm on American interests and living standards than anything Russia could accomplish by buying off a single President. It's just that the kind of influence Israel wields wouldn't make for a compelling Tom Clancy novel so of course people are way less concerned about it compared to the more flashy narrative about a President being bought off with corrupt land deals and secret sex tapes, even though in terms of actual material impact on the world it's obvious that the Isreal lobby wields a lot more influence (for the bad) than Putin does in the halls of Washington.
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Jan 20, 2019 01:39
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There has been actual discussion of the US leaving NATO which would be hilariously bad for everyone involved in NATO and also world stability. If Russia was indeed involved in that and in some way influencing the president or whatever then I would say that would be grevious harm,yes
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Jan 20, 2019 01:43
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Helsing posted:What is the actual threat posed by Russia to the United States? as far as i can tell, russian guys will get rich at the expense of american rich guys, maybe, and russia is apparently associated with left wing ideas for reasons no one understands but the democrats, who say left wing ideas are dangerous and that the democrats should be more like the republicans to save america. it's honestly been hard to follow. Telsa Cola posted:There has been actual discussion of the US leaving NATO which would be hilariously bad for everyone involved in NATO and also world stability. If Russia was indeed involved in that and in some way influencing the president or whatever then I would say that would be grevious harm,yes drat it would be terrible if other countries pressured the US to leave international governing bodie- http://time.com/5491285/us-israel-un-unesco/ The U.S. and Israel Have Quit the U.N.'s Cultural Agency UNESCO, Accusing It of Bias https://www.reuters.com/article/us-un-rights-usa/u-s-quits-u-n-human-rights-body-citing-bias-vs-israel-alarming-critics-idUSKBN1JF24X U.S. quits U.N. human rights body, citing bias vs. Israel, alarming critics Your Parents fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jan 20, 2019 |
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Jan 20, 2019 01:44
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Cool that the people who endlessly poo poo up the Russia thread until it got closed have migrated over here. Post news or get out.
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Jan 20, 2019 01:45
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Cool that the people who endlessly poo poo up the Russia thread until it got closed have migrated over here. Fair enough, my mistake. On topic then, how does the federal goverment shut down effect the state of emergency just declared in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, if at all? I imagine it would effect funding though I also imagine it would not get bad enough to warrant federal aid?
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Jan 20, 2019 01:52
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Post news or get out. Doctors are frightened by climate change. Their industry is a big part of the problem by Julia Belluz and Umair Irfan for Vox.
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Jan 20, 2019 01:53
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https://mobile.twitter.com/Ali_Gharib/status/1086430886499893250
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Jan 20, 2019 02:33
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Lightning Knight posted:Doctors are frightened by climate change. Their industry is a big part of the problem by Julia Belluz and Umair Irfan for Vox. I've done some work with Belluz. She's very, very good 90% of the time. Unfortunately the other 10% are absolute turds.
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Jan 20, 2019 03:00
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Literally arrested and brought to trial for "littering".
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Jan 20, 2019 03:40
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Helsing posted:What is the actual threat posed by Russia to the United States? Aside from over four thousand nuclear weapons? Like, yeah, the chances of global thermonuclear war breaking out are probably close to zero. But Russia is still an expansive, antagonistic state that has invaded two of its direct neighbors within the past decade and a half, shot down an airliner filled with several hundred people, undertaken significant military operations in Syria that have killed a huge number of civilians and directly contributed to the massive refugee crisis straining Europe, and used a goddamn nerve agent in an assassination attempt on foreign soil. There are no reasons not to be concerned about Russia's geopolitical aspirations and what they're willing to do to achieve them, and the stance that 'lol they paid for facebook ads' is a significant minimization of their intelligence operations and interference in the 2016 election. e: some news if you really want it: https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/1086714926809432064 Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jan 20, 2019 |
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Jan 20, 2019 03:48
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Who needs government? Clearly, charitable organizations like strip clubs will help the needy.
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Jan 20, 2019 04:45
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What are the odds this talking point was written directly by a Russian propaganda organ? I'd take a bet at 2:1
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Jan 20, 2019 06:05
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They're not wrong
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Jan 20, 2019 07:02
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Literally arrested and brought to trial for "littering". Per this article, the Dept of the Interior had recently changed its access permit rules to specifically prohibit leaving food, water or other debris in the wildlife refuge. The defendants, knowing this, decided not to get an access permit and leave caches of food and water in the reserve anyway, on the basis that they thought worst the government could do was ban, "debar", or fine them. When in court, they offered a defense that the law should not apply to them, because they were following a higher moral principle. I can't really see that flying with a judge. Unless one of them has a serious prior record or tells the judge that they have every intention to keep going back if released, I'd be surprised if they get more than probation, since the guideline sentence is 0-6 months.
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Jan 20, 2019 07:06
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Dead Reckoning posted:Per this article, the Dept of the Interior had recently changed its access permit rules to specifically prohibit leaving food, water or other debris in the wildlife refuge. The defendants, knowing this, decided not to get an access permit and leave caches of food and water in the reserve anyway, on the basis that they thought worst the government could do was ban, "debar", or fine them. When in court, they offered a defense that the law should not apply to them, because they were following a higher moral principle. I can't really see that flying with a judge. That verdict is full of pontification about pack-it-in-pack-it-out, which is a genuine concern in wilderness reserves, and one I am sympathetic to. That this is being prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law, while the government completely ignores chuds driving ATVs through and chopping down trees in Joshua Tree is pretty disgusting, though. Edit: Actually, let's quote from the actual article: quote:Trump administration prosecutors are seeking to present the actions of No More Deaths volunteers on trial this week as straightforward violations of straightforward regulations. You are literally taking the position of Trump administration prosecutors. Is this really something you wanted to do? Lead out in cuffs fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jan 20, 2019 |
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Jan 20, 2019 07:43
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Previa_fun posted:They're not wrong No puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet.
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Jan 20, 2019 07:51
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Lead out in cuffs posted:That verdict is full of pontification about pack-it-in-pack-it-out, which is a genuine concern in wilderness reserves, and one I am sympathetic to. My point is this: if the government changes their rules specifically to tell you to stop doing a thing, and you then go ahead and do the thing again because you think they can't touch you, that will absolutely get you hauled into court regardless of who is in the White House. (Unless you are a billionaire.) The defendants' arguments likely annoyed the judge (they don't like it when you tell them that you don't have to follow the law because you answer to a higher authority, and also didn't think there would be any consequences for your actions) and aren't any sort of recognized legal defense, which makes an easy job for the prosecutor. This case doesn't seem exceptional. I would feel differently if the defendants hadn't admitted to knowing that DoI had changed the rules to specifically prohibit their behavior. It isn't even principled civil disobedience, because the defendants testified that they thought the worst that would happen was a fine or being banned from the reserve. Irrespective of the Trump admin's larger push to criminalize migrants, I think prohibiting people from caching food and water on government land for any reason is a reasonable and justifiable action by DoI. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 20, 2019 08:58
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Dead Reckoning posted:To be clear, I think the sentencing guideline for willfully destroying national park resources should be between "public flogging" and "the death penalty", and the Trump administration's decision to leave the parks open and unguarded is a disgusting dereliction of their stewardship responsibilities. How dare they believe mitigating circumstances of "saved lives" would count!
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Jan 20, 2019 15:37
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HootTheOwl posted:How dare they believe mitigating circumstances of "saved lives" would count! Wrong type of lives!
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Jan 20, 2019 15:47
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Previa_fun posted:They're not wrong
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Jan 20, 2019 16:17
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mystes posted:It's sort of true in that every day people seem to think the next day will be the reckoning when Trump will be arrested, which is really similar to qanon conspiracy theory stuff. Nobody thinks this, there is no parallel, and peddling that kind of false equivalency means you're making GBS threads up the discourse (regardless of intent). Like, seriously, I don't mean this as a personal dig at any individual poster (yourself included) but https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312
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Jan 20, 2019 16:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Nobody thinks this, there is no parallel, and peddling that kind of false equivalency means you're making GBS threads up the discourse (regardless of intent). Please don't lie. If you go to literally any forum for political discussion from D&D to Twitter to Facebook to any other social media, there are people who write fanfiction about how any day now trump and all the cabinet will be arrested and jailed. Robert Reich and Keith Olbermann both go nuts over this stuff on a weekly basis.
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Jan 20, 2019 16:35
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people think there's a reasonable chance Trump will be charged with crimes after he leaves office (one way or another) this, you see, is just like believing there's a massive conspiracy of pedophiles that includes every hollywood celebrity and every democrat, all of whom are secretly already under detention thanks to Trump, but will be rounded up in nationwide police raids someday very soon anyways, bad news for people who have been hoping that buzzfeed got that article completely wrong: https://twitter.com/CNNSotu/status/1086996907992514561
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Jan 20, 2019 16:35
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eke out posted:people think there's a reasonable chance Trump will be charged with crimes after he leaves office (one way or another) There's a reasonable chance he gets impeached and charged before then, honestly, but there's also an active conspiracy about how his entire presidency and cabinet are illegitimate and that somehow they will all be magically removed and replaced by Hillary and crew to save America. There's a spectrum. Anyway, total lunar eclipse tonight folks. Beautiful stuff. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 20, 2019 17:06
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Your Parents posted:Please don't lie. If you go to literally any forum for political discussion from D&D to Twitter to Facebook to any other social media, there are people who write fanfiction about how any day now trump and all the cabinet will be arrested and jailed. Robert Reich and Keith Olbermann both go nuts over this stuff on a weekly basis. Oh STFU with this bullshit. Robert Reich doesn't, at least not on facebook -- he calls for impeachment and eventual prosecution. I know this because I actually read him, which I guess you haven't? I'm sure you can find some idiots somewhere on the internet trying to Meulleratize the Eschaton but it doesn't happen on this forum that I've seen. If you've seen it post a link, but don't confound "Donald Trump will be arrested eventually" with "Donald Trump will be perp-walked tomorrow." The first is realistically fairly probable if we ever return to sane government; the second is conspiracy bullshit (and doesn't exist in a meaningful or mainstream way). If I'm a liar post the link that shows it. Your Parents posted:there's also an active conspiracy about how his entire presidency and cabinet are illegitimate and that somehow they will all be magically removed and replaced by Hillary and crew to save America. If there is, I haven't seen it. As far as I've seen this is just false equivalency threadshitting.. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jan 20, 2019 |
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Jan 20, 2019 17:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Meulleratize the Eschaton I just want to say that I appreciate this phrase, it's a good one.
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Jan 20, 2019 18:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Nobody thinks this, there is no parallel, and peddling that kind of false equivalency means you're making GBS threads up the discourse (regardless of intent).
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Jan 20, 2019 18:47
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"Is the Muller investigation Qanon for liberals" is a topic better debated in USPOL, where you can do so to your heart's content. MEET THE TEAM BEHIND CNN BRASIL: A BUSINESSMAN ACCUSED OF EXPLOITING SLAVE LABOR AND AN EXECUTIVE FROM A FOX NEWS-STYLE OUTLET for the Intercept by Piero Locatelli and Andrew Fishman. Discendo Vox posted:I've done some work with Belluz. She's very, very good 90% of the time. Unfortunately the other 10% are absolute turds. Are you saying that article is bad?
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Jan 20, 2019 18:55
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HootTheOwl posted:How dare they believe mitigating circumstances of "saved lives" would count! "Necessary to save lives" is a pretty classic exigent circumstance, but it generally requires an imminent risk of harm, such as a person dying of thirst right in front of you. It doesn't apply to more remote or theoretical harms, where the legal system defaults back to the idea that harms are better mitigated by the legislative process or through the courts.
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Jan 20, 2019 20:14
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Dead Reckoning posted:"Necessary to save lives" is a pretty classic exigent circumstance, but it generally requires an imminent risk of harm, such as a person dying of thirst right in front of you. It doesn't apply to more remote or theoretical harms, where the legal system defaults back to the idea that harms are better mitigated by the legislative process or through the courts. Yes Mr Schindler, the Holocaust is pretty bad, but it's best mitigated through the legislative process or through the courts, not through breaking the law
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Jan 20, 2019 20:23
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VitalSigns posted:Yes Mr Schindler, the Holocaust is pretty bad, but it's best mitigated through the legislative process or through the courts, not through breaking the law Even setting aside the moral issue, his post is still bullshit because it's blatantly border patrol using the legal system for revenge. At absolute worst other litterers might get a ticket.
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Jan 20, 2019 20:25
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fool_of_sound posted:Even setting aside the moral issue, his post is still bullshit because it's blatantly border patrol using the legal system for revenge. At absolute worst other litterers might get a ticket. Unless they EXPECT a ticket. Then it calls for an execution.
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Jan 20, 2019 20:34
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Look it is absurd to suggest that russia controls anyone in the us govt, someone on the internet says so. I didn't even suggest that we had traitors in the Senate or even get to the obvious "Maybe they'll just vote however Trump wants them to if an impeachment gets under way." Just suggested they made a vote to lift sanctions that makes them look like Russian toadies. Which it does. Since then we've entered into a gray zone where the Buzzfeed article may in whole or in part be false. https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...m=.108f2b7ae586
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Jan 20, 2019 21:44
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Lightning Knight posted:Are you saying that article is bad? I'd need to do more digging into the methods of the sourced report than I have time for atm, but it's got the hallmarks of "a recent study said" promo paraphrase reporting, which is a very bad sign. If you see a story which almost entirely consists of repeating assertions by one or more articles from a short period of time in a single journal, that usually means the reporter his making use of press and promo office sourcing. In this case, the source is NEJM, which alternates between being the best and the worst source on medical research because of its scale and internal politics (see also Nature and Science), and it's citing two pieces that appear to basically be editorials. The article also directly quotes Solomon, who it neglects to mention was also the editor for the cited review piece. What has happened is the NEJM office is running promo on the editorial, and offered Belluz a set of citations, some lines from Solomon (either interview or canned) and what was basically a free, appealing story requiring no external research. I can be confident about this by noticing and comparing the parallel coverage the articles got in other outlets. Broadly, science reporting on recent, individual studies is at its weakest in this form, because it lacks the time, contextualization and peer criticism that is necessary to the evaluation of research. I'd need to dig more into the review article cited and I can't access it from here, but the derivation of the "tenth of US greenhouse gases" is...shaky. I can't say for certain that the article is a turd, I'm working from context cues and from having read a lot of Belluz's other work, good and bad, in areas in which I am more of an expert. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jan 20, 2019 |
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Jan 20, 2019 21:44
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Helsing posted:To keep this linked to the stories being discussed: Israeli lobbying and the overlap between the perception of Isreali interests and American interests within the foreign policy blob actively contributes to America's massive spending on its military and its tendency to invade and blow up other countries. "actively contributes" to yes, but do you care to operationalize that contribution? The United States' military build up, Post World War 2, started before Israel was founded and arguably was going on for a quarter century or so before the somewhat irrational infatuation with Israel begin in the United States. The United States was spending that massive amount of military money before both the Middle East became the focus of foreign policy and before Israel became the focus of the Middle East. That massive military buildup had a lot of causes, including overlearning the lessons from World War II, as well as the need for a constant, politically expedient way to apply Keynesian stimulus to the economy. Both of which I am sure you are familiar with. quote:The Israeli lobby almost certainly does inflict more harm on American interests and living standards than anything Russia could accomplish by buying off a single President. It's just that the kind of influence Israel wields wouldn't make for a compelling Tom Clancy novel so of course people are way less concerned about it compared to the more flashy narrative about a President being bought off with corrupt land deals and secret sex tapes, even though in terms of actual material impact on the world it's obvious that the Isreal lobby wields a lot more influence (for the bad) than Putin does in the halls of Washington. How would you operationalize the Israeli lobbies material influence on the average standard of living in the United States?
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Jan 21, 2019 06:53
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