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M_Sinistrari posted:What other stories are there? I'm a total pushover on hearing cut content stories. A couple that I've heard: Sith Inquisitors supposedly could become double agents for the Jedi at one point in development, if you took the right choices on Taris, justified as your character never having had a choice in becoming a Sith. Smugglers supposedly had a path where you could figure out the real identity of Pollarn early on, and intentionally work for the Empire under the Republic's thumb up until the Empire decided you outlived your usefulness in act three.
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Jan 18, 2019 17:25
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The Agent, Knight, and Warrior are the most involved stories because they were the first ones written so the devs had more time. Trooper was last and it shows. I was in the first beta the public was invited to and I don’t remember an option for the Knight to betray. Originally if you ended as Dark Side you got the General title instead of Master but it got changed to just Master after people complained.
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Jan 18, 2019 17:36
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DrunkenGarbageCan posted:The Agent, Knight, and Warrior are the most involved stories because they were the first ones written so the devs had more time. Trooper was last and it shows. There's that thing Miyamoto said one time, "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever." If you're going to make storytelling the focus of the game it seems like -and hear me out here- you shouldn't let the storytelling aspect get rushed or shortchanged? Imagine the game we could have had if all the stories were as good as the Agent and Warrior's.
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Jan 18, 2019 19:45
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Chickenwalker posted:There's that thing Miyamoto said one time, "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever." Also, I frankly doubt whether better class storylines would've made that much of a difference. Unless my memory's really failing me, the reasons for TOR's userbase very rapidly dwindling a few months after launch were mainly that it: - was, in practical terms, yet another a WoW clone - lacked severely in the quality-of-life department (remember that quick-travel points were not all connected, that you were constantly struggling to collect enough planetary commendations to keep up with your levelling, that matchmaking was a highly manual affair, that you couldn't change the interface, etc. etc.) - did not have much of an endgame I suspect that most players would've burned out on the game regardless of the quality of the class storylines, because who really wanted to go through all that hassle more than once?
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Jan 18, 2019 20:12
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Sombrerotron posted:That's well and all, but try selling that to the corporate execs who've decided the game should be out just before Christmas. Yeah, it was never the storyline aspects that killed SWTOR. It was the MMO side, which was a WoW clone circa 2007, which is very bad for a game from 2012.
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Jan 18, 2019 22:55
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I played a knight in the beta for a long time, but they kept resetting and wiping our characters so I never got past like level 35. I never got to see how the story ended until the game went live. That was kind of a problem across the board at launch... the constant character wipes meant high-level content got almost no testing. It definitely took them a while to get their poo poo straight, but it's come a long way.
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Jan 18, 2019 23:22
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Warmachine posted:Yeah, it was never the storyline aspects that killed SWTOR. It was the MMO side, which was a WoW clone circa 2007, which is very bad for a game from 2012. Yeah basically every WoW clone had this issue. MMO development takes so long Blizzard has made sweeping quality of life improvements by the time they come out and people don't want to go back to the old way.
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Jan 18, 2019 23:30
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Nerd Of Prey posted:That was kind of a problem across the board at launch... the constant character wipes meant high-level content got almost no testing. It definitely took them a while to get their poo poo straight, but it's come a long way. I'm looking at you Vitiate at the end of the Knight storyline who could easily wipe a group of 4 that Bioware forced you to do with a comp that a) was a Tank when Tank comps were complete garbage b) the vast majority of people never used after getting Kira on Coruscant c) could only be geared through endgame crafted gear. But yes the story didn't hurt ToR the story probably saved it from being a complete loss lest we forget not getting Sprint until you're 20's, not getting a mount til your 30's, Quick Travel having an hour CD, and Fleet Pass having a 24 hour CD. People who dislike Hoth today imagine doing it with no mount or Quick Travel.
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Jan 19, 2019 00:02
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DrunkenGarbageCan posted:I'm looking at you Vitiate at the end of the Knight storyline who could easily wipe a group of 4 that Bioware forced you to do with a comp that a) was a Tank when Tank comps were complete garbage b) the vast majority of people never used after getting Kira on Coruscant c) could only be geared through endgame crafted gear. You could gear T7 with commendations back in the day, I think most of the planets offered some droid-specific companion equipment. At minimum they gave you mods and armorings for customizable droid gear, which wasn't particularly endgame. Doing the emperor fight one week after launch is probably my favorite rose tinted glasses memory from the game. It was late enough that I knew to gear my little buddy up somewhat beforehand with some of the coms I got on Corellia, but before any of the Emperor's bullshit oneshots and the like had been nerfed so he was difficult. It was a legit good climax, which TOR wasn't exactly good at delivering. I'm not saying that suddenly forcing you to use your otherwise useless ranged tank companion for the hardest solo fight in the game without prior warning back when companion gear really mattered was in some way good design or anything. It did make the fight memorable, though. For better or worse.
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Jan 19, 2019 00:54
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Xerophyte posted:You could gear T7 with commendations back in the day, I think most of the planets offered some droid-specific companion equipment. At minimum they gave you mods and armorings for customizable droid gear, which wasn't particularly endgame. Yeah, a lot of quests offered one piece of equipment for each different companion as the choice of rewards. You could keep using T7 the whole game, but funny how most Knights used Kira or Doc.
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Jan 19, 2019 00:58
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Right. You COULD gear T7 if you selectively used your quest rewards to gear him up, but boy oh boy did people not use him. Similar thing happened to me with Agent where you lost Kaliyo on Corellia, and I needed a tank because I relied on backstab. Never touched Scorpio before that, but luckily you got her on Belsavis so her gear wasn't TOO outdated
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Jan 19, 2019 05:18
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Chickenwalker posted:If you're going to make storytelling the focus of the game it seems like -and hear me out here- you shouldn't let the storytelling aspect get rushed or shortchanged? swtor was a boondoggle that went massively over budget as it was. even being pushed out when it was, it cost something like a quarter billion dollars to develop, not including post-release expenses. there are practical limits on how much even EA can spend.
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Jan 19, 2019 15:23
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Are you guys forgetting that you could pick up a full set of high-level gear for T7 during the quest? ...by doing a hidden objective nobody knew about? ...involving a needlessly difficult puzzle? ...which was frequently broken?
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Jan 20, 2019 03:10
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Cease to Hope posted:swtor was a boondoggle that went massively over budget as it was. even being pushed out when it was, it cost something like a quarter billion dollars to develop, not including post-release expenses. there are practical limits on how much even EA can spend. huge open worlds with nothing in them - $125 million on rails ship combat nobody has ever played - $125 million fully thought out, not rushed scripts - $2 somebody who is good at game development please help me, my story-driven mmo with choices that matter™ is dying
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Jan 20, 2019 04:34
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Nerd Of Prey posted:Are you guys forgetting that you could pick up a full set of high-level gear for T7 during the quest? You couldn't in the beginning, they added that later
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Jan 20, 2019 05:03
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i liked class quests better when they were somewhat difficult
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Jan 20, 2019 06:22
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Chickenwalker posted:huge open worlds with nothing in them - $125 million i mean, yeah, swtor probably would have been a better game if they had limited the scope before spending all that time and money
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Jan 20, 2019 12:27
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Cease to Hope posted:i mean, yeah, swtor probably would have been a better game if they had limited the scope before spending all that time and money Moreover, as mentioned before, TOR was and still is fundamentally a WoW-clone. Limiting the scope would not have changed that. In fact, it probably would've made things worse because it'd either mean players would zip through all the content even faster, or it would suffer as an MMO (as it arguably did with the last two expansions) and call into question why it exists in the first place. Without offering something that a single player game couldn't, TOR probably would've been abandoned entirely by now. And huge open worlds populated by clusters of various enemies are part and parcel of the genre anyway - even without the MMO part - so there's no escaping that, really. In light of all this, to suggest that spending more time on writing could've somehow made all the difference seems entirely non-sensical to me. The best writing in the world won't save a game that may rightly be considered tedious, unnecessarily cumbersome, and over all too soon.
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Jan 20, 2019 14:16
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Sombrerotron posted:I believe that at best, the game might've launched with a better quality-of-life standard - and even then, I expect the improvements would've been largely limited to, say, letting you customise the interface and offering you a properly functional group finder. It seems clear to me that traversing every world, for example, was made into an arduous task because the game simply didn't have enough content yet to keep most people occupied long enough otherwise. If you recall, unless you wanted to constantly do FPs or something, you were pretty much required to do all sidequests as well if you wanted to keep up with the game's levelling curve. The game's changed tremendously over the years, but that's only because so much content has been added and because hardly anyone would still be willing to sink as much time into it just to get to the end of the original single player content as they would at launch (and even then, large numbers of players most likely didn't bother). I think a lot of the pre-launch/launch problems can be attributed to an insistence that SWTOR could compete with "WoW At Launch" instead of what WoW had actually evolved into by late 2012. Most suggestions of bringing the game up-to-date with the latest and greatest MMO improvements (like, an LFG tool, or a more generous leveling curve) were met with "WoW didn't need that at launch, so we don't either." Obviously scope was already a problem, so on the one hand I understand the hesitation to add more to an already huge project, but their reasoning and logic was faulty. Thankfully, they scrambled at launch to quickly build an LFG tool (and other various QoL features) and got it into one of the first few post-release patches, if I recall correctly.
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Jan 20, 2019 19:46
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not using an LFG tool was ok in like 2001 when i was a literal child and had no responsibilities besides school or maybe burning the clock at an after school job
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Jan 20, 2019 22:17
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If I just wanted to plow through the story with minimal effort, what class should I boost to 65?
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Jan 21, 2019 07:05
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HotBobaloo posted:If I just wanted to plow through the story with minimal effort, what class should I boost to 65? I've always found the arsenal mercenary to be pretty brainless or if you want a class that actually makes sense with the story arc, vengeance juggernaut is pretty hard to mess up (I forget what the jedi knight equivalent is, vigilance guardian I think?)
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Jan 21, 2019 07:13
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HotBobaloo posted:If I just wanted to plow through the story with minimal effort, what class should I boost to 65? The story is simple enough that any class can blow through it, your companion is going to do most of the work anyways. That said, a 65 boosted character (the token you get for free) is locked out of - - original class story - Companion conversations - Shadow of Revan - Ziost - Knights of the Fallen Empire (A 60 boosted starts here). The boosted characters are not worth it because not only are you locked out of this content, but it means you can't get any titles you would get in them - do your Warrior can never be a Darth. There is a level 70 boost (Master's Datacron) that doesn't lock you out, but if your thought process is "I'll get a level 70 that will cruise through the story content because it's so much lower level than me", don't forget about level sync where you are reduced to the level of the planet.
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Jan 21, 2019 13:51
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For the pre-KotFE stuff, something with stealth. For after that, stealth never works anyway.
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Jan 21, 2019 14:14
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Guardian/Jugg with Preparation/Seething Hatred...Combat Focus/Enrage -> Force Leap -> Force Sweep/Smash -> done and all CD's reset.
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Jan 21, 2019 16:30
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Aphrodite posted:For the pre-KotFE stuff, something with stealth. For after that, stealth never works anyway. Playing a scoundrel my first time through has spoiled me. The lack of a stealth on Trooper makes some stuff take forever.
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Jan 21, 2019 17:09
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Quasipox posted:Playing a scoundrel my first time through has spoiled me. The lack of a stealth on Trooper makes some stuff take forever. That's when you just ghetto stealth, run through a group of mobs to your objective point, at which point you either lose aggro, kill those that follow, or just die and revive.
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Jan 21, 2019 17:27
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HotBobaloo posted:If I just wanted to plow through the story with minimal effort, what class should I boost to 65? Would strongly recommend either doing the 60 boost or the 70 boost, but not the 65. 65 drops you in the middle of KotFE and KotET, and KotET is literally "Part 2" of a two-part story, so it's not going to be very helpful/fun for you. 60 will let you jump straight into the "Telltale game"-style content that got started with KotFE, but you'll be blocked from Class Story. 70 will let you play all content from the beginning while at max level (you get scaled down, but you'll still be overleveled). I did a 70 boost and it was a lot of fun; you still gain 'levels' via the Command system so you'll get free endgame crates as you play the old content.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:20
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Optionally, you could just buy a Master's Datacron from the CM and play an entire storyline starting at Lvl 70. That way you're just earning Command points the whole time instead of wasting energy grinding XP.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:31
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Pryce posted:Would strongly recommend either doing the 60 boost or the 70 boost, but not the 65. 65 drops you in the middle of KotFE and KotET, and KotET is literally "Part 2" of a two-part story, so it's not going to be very helpful/fun for you. 60 will let you jump straight into the "Telltale game"-style content that got started with KotFE, but you'll be blocked from Class Story. 70 will let you play all content from the beginning while at max level (you get scaled down, but you'll still be overleveled). I did a 70 boost and it was a lot of fun; you still gain 'levels' via the Command system so you'll get free endgame crates as you play the old content. If you want to play through story, do not use a 60/65 boost since it locks you out of the class story, companion story and Shadow of Revan/Ziost. Master's Datacron is what you want to buy if you want a level 70 character for raiding right away while you do the story.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:35
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starting this up again. Just finished the JK class story, knocked out the BH story late last year. Is there a "Star Wars: A New Hope" Throne Room style ending in any of these stories? I was hoping the JK would have it, and it was close, but no epic story, no bombastic John Williams theme. Kinda took the wind out of my sails "you killed the Emperor! very impressive! yadda yadda! Go home."
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Jan 23, 2019 06:27
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The class stories don't have solid endings because, when they were written, the people writing them didn't know that there never would be a class-specific chapter 4 for each class.
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Jan 23, 2019 06:30
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Sith Inquisitor ending is suitably "epic" (I don't really like it as an adjective but it fits), especially with the lightside option.
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Jan 23, 2019 06:56
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SoUncool posted:starting this up again. Just finished the JK class story, knocked out the BH story late last year.
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Jan 23, 2019 14:40
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Truga posted:what where I meant reinstall Jedi Outcast, sorry there is no new game
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Jan 23, 2019 16:04
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Bilirubin posted:I meant reinstall Jedi Outcast, sorry there is no new game There will never be another X-Wing/TIE Fighter. LucasArts is dead forever. 
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Jan 23, 2019 19:01
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Is this worth starting again if I haven't played since launch month? The story sounds nice, but is there really a gameplay loop in endgame or is it only worth it to play for the story?
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Jan 23, 2019 19:08
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Bilirubin posted:I meant reinstall Jedi Outcast, sorry there is no new game yeah i figured as much  i was considering doing the same a few weeks ago before i got suckered back into ff14. i think i'll do it anyway soon, there's a VR mod now, but it doesn't have VR controller support yet and I need to rectify that.
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Jan 23, 2019 19:21
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Panther2103 posted:Is this worth starting again if I haven't played since launch month? There's been a poo poo ton of new content since launch. Not so much in the last few years, and the last 2 major expansions are single player focused, but if you didn't do the class story quests it's worth playing just for them (well, most of them)
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Jan 23, 2019 20:16
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Medullah posted:There's been a poo poo ton of new content since launch. Not so much in the last few years, and the last 2 major expansions are single player focused, but if you didn't do the class story quests it's worth playing just for them (well, most of them)
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Jan 23, 2019 20:42
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