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Discendo Vox posted:Every time information is provided refuting one argument, you move to a different one that was already addressed. The constant shifting of rhetorical focus from y'all is getting really old. Isn't it interesting how you never do any sort of helpful posting and are only ever interested in policing the dialogue?
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:18 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 16:55 |
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EDIT: Nevermind, don't want to post about posters against the moderators' warning. Why is Donald Trump's motivation relevant to the discussion? He could be doing whatever he's doing for his own selfish, stupid reasons (and he probably is) while still doing the right thing. The right thing can be done for the wrong reasons, that doesn't make it the wrong thing to do. This issue should be viewed in the context of Venezuela and Venezuela alone, and from that point of view, the US is doing the correct thing by helping to remove Maduro, and Maduro's allies are doing the wrong thing by continuing to support someone who has stolen immeasurably, both money and lives, from his nation. PT6A fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jan 27, 2019 |
# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:22 |
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Presenting Nipples posted:Can someone explain why Donald J. Trump, Elliot Abrams, & Mike Pompeo are so concerned about the plight of the Venezuelan people? Overwhelming concern for the starving masses of venezuela Indignation at government corruption in venezuela Love of democracy
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:26 |
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As an aside from the current conversation, one of the reasons that some of the PSUV defenders ITT are held in low regard is that they heavily give off the impression they only start paying attention to Venezuela whenever there is some major push in western media or it comes up on their tweeter feed. This makes them come off as incredibly uninformed, even to someone like me who's only been following Venezuela from a distance, let alone the actual Venezuelans ITT. That makes their mostly well justified principles against US intervention appear as if they are molding their perception of the present and past state of the country. This makes it very difficult for me personally, and maybe others, to trust any unsourced statements they make about the current conditions in Venezuela and their causes. AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jan 27, 2019 |
# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:27 |
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To be clear, Americans have every bit as much a right to comment on the actions of their own government as "actual Venezuelans"* *Venezuelans who support the coup
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:39 |
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I didn't mean to imply they didn't, just that their info on Venezuela itself may be incomplete.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:43 |
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CLAP packages are distributed in my area every 6 to 8 months. 6 kilos of lentils and 3 of rice are not going to last for half a year.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:49 |
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Presenting Nipples posted:Nah you are the expert clearly. What do you perceive to be motivating the trump admin’s actions in Venezuela? What actions are you talking about?
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:54 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Proposal 497 of the Popular Will party platform outlines an intention to privatize the state oil company. The above text you quote does *not* mention privatizing PDVSA, though. It *does* say they seek to increase private participation in the (oil) industry, which probably does mean seeking investment to reverse all the damage done by the systematic looting of PDVSA by the government and increase output. I point out this was normal practice under Chavez. PDVSA regularly partnered with foreign oil firms, even after 2008 when Exxon and Conoco left the Orinoco projects. https://www.rigzone.com/news/oil_gas/a/57494/pdvsa_aims_for_57b_investment_in_former_exxon_venture/
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:55 |
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:As an aside from the current conversation, one of the reasons that some of the PSUV defenders ITT are held in low regard is that they heavily give off the impression they only start paying attention to Venezuela whenever there is some major push in western media or it comes up on their tweeter feed. It also makes it harder to not see them as a specific group when you see them spout their usual lines, then run back to C-SPAM to giggle at whatever replies they got.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:56 |
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I'm looking for information to read on the last elections in Venezuela. Can someone point me to sources to read about their legitimacy or lack of, and what went down? Thanks
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:57 |
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Venezuela crisis: Former UN rapporteur says US sanctions are killing citizens quote:Mr De Zayas, a former secretary of the UN Human Rights Council (HRC) and an expert in international law, spoke to The Independent following the presentation of his Venezuela report to the HRC in September. He said that since its presentation the report has been ignored by the UN and has not sparked the public debate he believes it deserves. This part is also good too: quote:Eugenia Russian , president of FUNDALATIN, one of the oldest human rights NGOs in Venezuela, founded in 1978 before the Chavez and Maduro governments and with special consultative status at the UN, spoke to The Independent on the significance of the sanctions. CAPS LOCK BROKEN fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jan 27, 2019 |
# ? Jan 27, 2019 21:58 |
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mila kunis posted:I'm looking for information to read on the last elections in Venezuela. Can someone point me to sources to read about their legitimacy or lack of, and what went down? Thanks https://www.reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/ak1wtu/hello_im_dr_alan_macleod_i_have_studied_venezuela/ef0s31f/ quote:The 2013 Elections Rodatose fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jan 27, 2019 |
# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:03 |
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mila kunis posted:I'm looking for information to read on the last elections in Venezuela. Can someone point me to sources to read about their legitimacy or lack of, and what went down? Thanks Click on ? under Chuck Boone's post and go back a few pages.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:06 |
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Chuck Boone posted:This thread's been up since 2015, and I hung out a lot in the one that was here before it. So I've been here for at least four years. I'd ask then why you keep coming back, but I seriously doubt there's any better place on the internet to have these discussions. There's no escaping the partisan animosity.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:08 |
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Rodatose posted:here's some ama That's just awful and filled with inaccuracies. We've talked about these talking points before and I'm getting sick of repeating myself. Here's a better article by the BBC CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:This part is also good too: So what about this part? quote:The Maduro government is responsible for “the worst human rights crisis in the country’s history,” according to Amnesty. Worse than Chicago or nah? fnox fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jan 27, 2019 |
# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:09 |
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fishmech posted:What actions are you talking about? Their actions in venezuela, which has been documented in this thread over and over again and I’m not going to repeat to you.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:09 |
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Presenting Nipples posted:Their actions in venezuela, which has been documented in this thread over and over again and I’m not going to repeat to you. What actions in Venezuela? You're upset about refining their oil, or what? You don't like how GM stopped producing cars in Venezuela? You don't like that disputes over port facilities in Venezuela eventually led to Conoco taking over numerous US Citgo franchised gas stations in exchange for agreements to forgive/reduce certain Citgo/PDVSA debts? You don't like that reporters visit?
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:14 |
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Rodatose posted:here's some ama Re this part quote:This Latin America-wide slump has been used by the right to come to power, often illegally, for example in coups in Brazil and Honduras and a constitutional coup in Paraguay. The right is ascendant and one by one the empire has struck back, picking off leftist governments. I knew about Honduras and the coup against Dilma/jailing of Lula in Brazil, what happened in Paraguay?
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:20 |
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fishmech posted:What actions in Venezuela? You're upset about refining their oil, or what? You don't like how GM stopped producing cars in Venezuela? You don't like that disputes over port facilities in Venezuela eventually led to Conoco taking over numerous US Citgo franchised gas stations in exchange for agreements to forgive/reduce certain Citgo/PDVSA debts? You don't like that reporters visit? I’m glad we established that you can’t read and don’t want to address why the US would want regime change in Venezuela. You’d rather spin around in circles of endless pedantry.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:22 |
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fnox posted:That's just awful and filled with inaccuracies. We've talked about these talking points before and I'm getting sick of repeating myself. That article does not actually address any of these "talking points" and actually falls into what the AMA describes as EU sources having a heavy slant that does not include the election verification results. Most importantly your article doesn't address independent election verification results under "international response" section, only covering the reaction from various country figureheads to imply that nobody can really know what happened with the election to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the elections
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:25 |
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Presenting Nipples posted:I’m glad we established that you can’t read and don’t want to address why the US would want regime change in Venezuela. You’d rather spin around in circles of endless pedantry. Please state what actions you're talking about. You should be able to do that if they exist. Also reminder that "regime change" is a meaningless buzzword so please talk about things that actually happened in Venezuela. Reminder: Maduro illegally abrogated the Bolivarian Constitution.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:26 |
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gently caress it, it's a cult. Not worth it. I don't even know what that bird is.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:27 |
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Rodatose posted:That article does not actually address any of these "talking points" and actually falls into what the AMA describes as EU sources having a heavy slant that does not include the election verification results. Most importantly your article doesn't address independent election verification results under "international response" section, only covering the reaction from various country figureheads to imply that nobody can really know what happened with the election to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the elections Yeah I'm not sure how a BBC article that doesn't mention the groups/nations that did election verification at all, even if only to dismiss them with reasons for doing so - give me something, anything - is better than that AMA response.The two even agree in some places. So if the AMA is full of inaccuracies then what does that make the supposed superior BBC article? This is insane.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:30 |
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mila kunis posted:Re this part In 2008 a liberation theology leftist guy got elected president. in 2012 the opposition, which controlled the senate, passed a rushed impeachment process against the president in a way that gave them less than 24 hours to prepare for the proceedings. impeachment was ovewhelmingly approved in senate and an opposition leader gained the presidency
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:31 |
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Rodatose posted:here's some ama Anyone who brings up the Jimmy Carter quote about the Venezuelan election process being great without bringing up that the Carter Center denounced 2017 Venezuelan elections and its Latin America and Caribbean director said the last vestiges of democracy there were gone, is clearly just trying to con you.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 22:59 |
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fnox posted:gently caress it, it's a cult. Not worth it. Northern Crested Caracara.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 23:04 |
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fnox posted:gently caress it, it's a cult. Not worth it. You don't recognize a bird that's native to where you supposedly come from? How interesting. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 23:11 |
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fishmech posted:Please state what actions you're talking about. You should be able to do that if they exist. Also reminder that "regime change" is a meaningless buzzword so please talk about things that actually happened in Venezuela. Yeah, that thing the US has stated as an explicit goal in Venezuela and in dozens of other countries they dont like the local governments is a meaningless buzzword and doesn't really exist. Nailed it in one buck.
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 23:18 |
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This is a nice front page, I think. Det_no fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 27, 2019 |
# ? Jan 27, 2019 23:21 |
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https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1089650383075622913 i don't think this is it, chief
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 23:27 |
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These supposed "Venezuelans" have been undone by their poor command of wild regional ornithology. psyop confirmed!
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# ? Jan 27, 2019 23:27 |
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People saying some people appearing in videos are fake Venezuelans because they're white, because as we all know there are no white people in Latin America
Pochoclo fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jan 27, 2019 |
# ? Jan 27, 2019 23:53 |
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Maduro was at the Paramacay base in Carabobo state earlier today to look at some soldiers. These events are relatively common, but this one's taken on more meaning given the events of the last few days. The message of this was obviously to show that Maduro is still in command, that everything is fine, and that the army still loves him. Paramacay is home to the 41st Armoured Brigade. Here's Maduro inspecting the troops: https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro/status/1089561835152596992 Maduro led the soldiers around a walk of the base: https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro/status/1089563440673361920 At some point they all decided to start jogging: https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro/status/1089564309489897472 Here he is giving a speech to the troops: https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro/status/1089565196841074689 After visiting Paramacay Maduro went to Puerto Cabello: https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro/status/1089630361313832960 https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro/status/1089633250555936768 And here he is locking arms with the bros: https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro/status/1089645866389065728 Berke Negri posted:https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1089650383075622913 Did I hear that right? "Jard Kushner's leading it?" https://twitter.com/infinite_scream/status/1089667389233479680 Squalid posted:I'd ask then why you keep coming back, but I seriously doubt there's any better place on the internet to have these discussions. There's no escaping the partisan animosity. I used to lurk the hell out of the Libyan civil war thread. I learned a lot from it. I'm hoping people are learning from this thread as well.
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# ? Jan 28, 2019 01:19 |
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I appreciate all your posts Chuck Boone you do a great job.
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# ? Jan 28, 2019 01:22 |
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Is there any way to get Chuck boone appointed idiot king of the thread? should I make a QQCS thread?
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# ? Jan 28, 2019 01:27 |
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Please god yes, some sort of internal management by the competent would be nice.
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# ? Jan 28, 2019 01:50 |
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Wouldnt blame him for not wanting to deal with that poo poo though.
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# ? Jan 28, 2019 01:58 |
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For whatever is worth I am very grateful for your posts Chuck Boone.
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# ? Jan 28, 2019 02:02 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 16:55 |
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Would like to cosign for Chuck Boone. The current status of this thread is only slightly embarrassing, and that would help significantly.
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# ? Jan 28, 2019 02:02 |