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Seph posted:The foster program certainly has its flaws, don't get me wrong, but I'd almost certainly say it's better than a homeless mother who isn't looking out for their child. The state should absolutely take every possible measure to help parents get their kids to school, but at some point responsibility has to fall onto the parent. If they are unable or unwilling to get their child to school I think they are unfit to be a parent in general. Are you loving serious? I was homeless as a kid, at one point I was in a foster home. You know where I was better off? With my parents. We may have have been in a loving station wagon in 1982, traveling from town to town while my step dad looked for work, but my brother and I weren't shut in foster homes with overworked people and seriously damaged kids.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:56
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Seph posted:The foster program certainly has its flaws, don't get me wrong, but I'd almost certainly say it's better than a homeless mother who isn't looking out for their child. The state should absolutely take every possible measure to help parents get their kids to school, but at some point responsibility has to fall onto the parent. If they are unable or unwilling to get their child to school I think they are unfit to be a parent in general. You realize the solution is to give the parent help and support and not dump them into a meat grinder
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Jan 28, 2019 23:56
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Spun Dog posted:The way thing are structured, school don't get paid if students are not in attendance for a certain percentage of the year. Schools don't get paid if a student is absent? What the ever loving loving kind of system is that. It's like a profit motive for stuffing schools as full as possible and not give a gently caress about teaching them. I am not looking forward to interacting with the school system when my children are of age.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:56
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xov posted:What's the general opinion of Kasich 'round these parts? Despite being on the wrong faction, something about him seems almost okay to me.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:57
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xov posted:What's the general opinion of Kasich 'round these parts? kasich is that most dinosaurish of characters, a republican who seems to take the jesus stuff as meaning something. which is to say that he still wants to slash every social program, deregulate every industry, have planned parenthood burned to the ground, and reinstitute apartheid, but he wants to be polite about it and genuinely expects that christian charities will pick up all the slack. there is a wonderful story of him storming out of a Koch seminar after saying "look, when I face St. Peter, i don't think he's going to be asking me about my tax reforms" that was 1. very clearly him setting up for his presidential run 2. just adorable, in its "oh, how cute, he thinks this is still a thing"ness.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:57
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Neo_Crimson posted:HEB! As a Wyatt Family distant cousin, I appreciated this reference.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:57
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VitalSigns posted:That was the incredible thing about that speech no one had even bothered to find out why her kids were absent until they took their homeless overworked mother downtown and charged her with a crime and threatened her with prison. Tbh the threat of prison isn't even the real threat, the threat of her kids going into the foster system is the threat. Prison would be a break from working two jobs and living on the street. California minimum security wouldn't even be that unpleasant compared to living on the streets.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:57
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https://twitter.com/jeffcarlson/status/1089950465909870592 One aspect of the shutdown that didn't get much play: access control issues. Had the shutdown gone on for another week this would have been a pervasive or universal problem. Edit: Just think of the social engineering opportunities!
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Jan 28, 2019 23:58
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VitalSigns posted:gently caress you Obviously the goal is to try to reduce homelessness and separating a child from their parents should be an absolute last resort. But we have to acknowledge this problem is happening now and requires an immediate solution rather than waiting for the homelessness problem to be fixed which will take years and years (and realistically might not ever be completely solved). A kid who is repeatedly missing school for years is statistically a lost cause. And please don't do what this thread is great at and spin my post like I'm advocating to round up all homeless mothers and send them to jail immediately. All I'm saying is at some point, once all other options are exhausted, there needs to be a punishment for denying your child the fundamental right of an education.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:58
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Popete posted:The video is a lot less damning than the tweet implies. She says they dropped the charges against the woman once she got her kids back in school. What the gently caress? The video is horrifying.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:58
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VH4Ever posted:Still stupid as hell. Especially when we're talking about the penalty for that being locking up parents. Or even threatening to lock up parents. The schools can't handle a 3 day absence without the loving DA stepping in? Gee, at my school, it had a whole office full of redundant paper pushers, those people can't just send some letters asking what's up, or make a phone call? Before the goddamn DA gets involved? You gotta wonder about the kind of person who hears "we are considering taking their children from them" and wonders if that's not a threatening enough opener to the parent.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:58
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Seph posted:The foster program certainly has its flaws, don't get me wrong, but I'd almost certainly say it's better than a homeless mother who isn't looking out for their child. The state should absolutely take every possible measure to help parents get their kids to school, but at some point responsibility has to fall onto the parent. If they are unable or unwilling to get their child to school I think they are unfit to be a parent in general. Thank you for sharing your unbelievably ill-informed, useless, and completely wrong assumptions
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Jan 28, 2019 23:59
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Seph posted:Obviously the goal is to try to reduce homelessness and separating a child from their parents should be an absolute last resort. But we have to acknowledge this problem is happening now and requires an immediate solution rather than waiting for the homelessness problem to be fixed which will take years and years (and realistically might not ever be completely solved). A kid who is repeatedly missing school for years is statistically a lost cause. Separating a child from their parents ought to be a last resort but since we're not doing anything else, let's separate a child from their parents as a first resort.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:00
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Uncleanly Cleric posted:Are you loving serious? It sounds like you had parents who were looking out for you and trying to provide the best they could. That's not what I'm talking about. This is a situation where the mother couldn't even get their kids to go to school.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:01
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Seph posted:Obviously the goal is to try to reduce homelessness and separating a child from their parents should be an absolute last resort. But we have to acknowledge this problem is happening now and requires an immediate solution rather than waiting for the homelessness problem to be fixed which will take years and years (and realistically might not ever be completely solved). A kid who is repeatedly missing school for years is statistically a lost cause. Other options were not exhausted, though. This was literally an example of using the police to round people up and then dealing with the fallout on a case by case basis. No one was even aware of this woman's issue until she was in custody.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:01
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Whatever you do, just don't reveal details of our plans. Bolton: https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1090006346026704896?s=19
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Jan 29, 2019 00:01
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Radish posted:Weird how it's a carrot and stick for parents of truant kids with real physical jail but financial criminals just learn their lesson without punishment.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:01
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Seph posted:Obviously the goal is to try to reduce homelessness and separating a child from their parents should be an absolute last resort. But we have to acknowledge this problem is happening now and requires an immediate solution rather than waiting for the homelessness problem to be fixed which will take years and years (and realistically might not ever be completely solved). A kid who is repeatedly missing school for years is statistically a lost cause. Hey dipshit read the links about fostercare long term outcomes and get back to us about this brilliant position you're defending.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:02
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Tim Whatley posted:Whatever you do, just don't reveal details of our plans.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:02
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Seph posted:And please don't do what this thread is great at and spin my post like I'm advocating to round up all homeless mothers and send them to jail immediately. Seph posted:If they are unable or unwilling to get their child to school I think they are unfit to be a parent in general. So, see... this is the part I have a problem with. She was homeless, and working two jobs presumably to feed those kids. So therefore, because the best she could do wasn't up to snuff for the state, and you, we should threaten to destroy her family and incarcerate her for doing her best. You know, instead of working to get her help without charging her for a crime!
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Jan 29, 2019 00:02
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Wow imagine watching that Harris video and agreeing with it and then defending it for pages
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Jan 29, 2019 00:03
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Seph posted:It sounds like you had parents who were looking out for you and trying to provide the best they could. That's not what I'm talking about. This is a situation where the mother couldn't even get their kids to go to school. You think my brother or I were in school that year?
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Jan 29, 2019 00:03
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Seph posted:It sounds like you had parents who were looking out for you and trying to provide the best they could. That's not what I'm talking about. This is a situation where the mother couldn't even get their kids to go to school. Did you watch the video, the problem was that no one had helped her sign up for government assistance, not that no one had threatened her and her kids enough
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Jan 29, 2019 00:03
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VH4Ever posted:Still stupid as hell. Especially when we're talking about the penalty for that being locking up parents. Or even threatening to lock up parents. The schools can't handle a 3 day absence without the loving DA stepping in? Gee, at my school, it had a whole office full of redundant paper pushers, those people can't just send some letters asking what's up, or make a phone call? Before the goddamn DA gets involved? the escalation in California the last I looked was, after 3 unexcused absences to notify the parent about the problem, a 4th after the notice is yet another notice and requires a meeting with school officials about the problem, and a fifth is the last straw where the parent(s) and officials meet again to start discussing counseling and other social programs to solve the truancy the DA's involvement only happens after continued problems beyond the 5th skipped day iirc
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Jan 29, 2019 00:03
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Seph posted:Obviously the goal is to try to reduce homelessness and separating a child from their parents should be an absolute last resort. But we have to acknowledge this problem is happening now and requires an immediate solution rather than waiting for the homelessness problem to be fixed which will take years and years (and realistically might not ever be completely solved). A kid who is repeatedly missing school for years is statistically a lost cause. doubling down isn't going to save you. You're adding a ton of qualifiers that show you know this was wrong, but you can't admit that you support that monstrous outcome. In this specific case, your solution is the problem, not the mother. There may be cases where a crime is committed by a parent by refusing them an education, but that's not what this was. I repeat: 
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Jan 29, 2019 00:03
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Thank you for sharing your unbelievably ill-informed, useless, and completely wrong assumptions So what sort of fundamental obligations does a parent have to their child? I'd argue food, shelter (could be a car, or some sort of encampment, not necessarily a house) and education. If they're failing to provide all three then they're not fit to be a parent IMO. Do you disagree with any of that?
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Jan 29, 2019 00:04
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Tim Whatley posted:Whatever you do, just don't reveal details of our plans. There's some speculation that its a fakeout / intimidation move from Trump / Bolton because its way too obvious that it was meant to be seen
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Jan 29, 2019 00:05
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Jackard posted:Wow imagine watching that Harris video and agreeing with it It kind of brings to light why there's been such a concerted effort on social media since her announcement to make sure discussing her past was pre-poisoned. It's similar to the freak out when it came out that Beto's voting records and connections painted him way more conservative than his "how do you do fellow kids" persona would lead you to believe.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:06
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Uncleanly Cleric posted:So, see... this is the part I have a problem with. She was homeless, and working two jobs presumably to feed those kids. So therefore, because the best she could do wasn't up to snuff for the state, and you, we should threaten to destroy her family and incarcerate her for doing her best. You know, instead of working to get her help without charging her for a crime! Yeah, it's worth considering that a very possible outcome of this approach was the woman sees the situation as hopeless and flees the jurisdiction with the kids.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:06
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exploded mummy posted:the escalation in California the last I looked was, after 3 unexcused absences to notify the parent about the problem, a 4th after the notice is yet another notice and requires a meeting with school officials about the problem, and a fifth is the last straw where the parent(s) and officials meet again to start discussing counseling and other social programs to solve the truancy in disclosure I did double check and that's based off the law when Harris was AG and DA, so I have jo idea what the law was like when she tried to gently caress over the mother
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Jan 29, 2019 00:07
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Seph posted:It sounds like you had parents who were looking out for you and trying to provide the best they could. That's not what I'm talking about. This is a situation where the mother couldn't even get their kids to go to school. Uncleanly Cleric posted:You think my brother or I were in school that year? Seph, your a loving moron with terrible opinions. Seph posted:So what sort of fundamental obligations does a parent have to their child? I'd argue food, shelter (could be a car, or some sort of encampment, not necessarily a house) and education. If they're failing to provide all three then they're not fit to be a parent IMO. Do you disagree with any of that? Is missing 6 days of education the equivalent of not providing an education in your mind?
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Jan 29, 2019 00:07
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Seph posted:So what sort of fundamental obligations does a parent have to their child? I'd argue food, shelter (could be a car, or some sort of encampment, not necessarily a house) and education. If they're failing to provide all three then they're not fit to be a parent IMO. Do you disagree with any of that? Again, what makes you think those needs are going to be seen to any better by foster care?
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Jan 29, 2019 00:08
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eviltastic posted:Yeah, it's worth considering that a very possible outcome of this approach was the woman sees the situation as hopeless and flees the jurisdiction with the kids. Which, is almost exactly why we ended up homeless for a while. Early 80s Kansas wasn't very friendly to people that couldn't pay the rent if the landlord decided he was done with it.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:08
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Seph posted:On the other hand, maybe parents should be responsible for their kids going to school and this is a good motivator? It's been shown that having deadbeat parents can lead to many issues down the line that end up being society's problem to fix (e.g. crime, teenage pregnancies, high school dropouts). Plus, what she mentioned specifically was for elementary school truancy. If your 8-year-old kid has recurring unexcused absences you're a loving terrible parent. What she showed was gleeful authoritarianism. She got off on threatening children and parents with prison. That's what it is. There are numerous reasons why kids ditch school including overworked parents, a poor education system (including underpaid teachers), problems at home, all issues that are real and can be helped by a presidential candidate. Instead she went for sending a threatening letter to houses warning of prison to kids and their parents. I'm sure the kids who showed up to the next day to school scared shitless that they were about to be thrown in prison were going to focus on learning multiplication instead of just thinking they had to sit in their seats and be there otherwise they and their parents would be sent to prison by Kamala Harris and her fancy letterhead. Flip Yr Wig posted:Yeah, I'm gonna say that bringing up charges on a homeless woman working two jobs is a wanton abuse of prosecutorial power even if you later drop the charges. Clearly you aren't Democratic Presidential candidate 2020 material. Soothing Vapors posted:I did, it's her level of pride in her ghoulish bullshit that really elevates it from bad to grotesque Yes. 1glitch0 fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jan 29, 2019 |
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Jan 29, 2019 00:08
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Seph posted:Take Back the Streets: Get Rid of the Bums. Again: unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares? Hopefully, they will disappear, that is, move from the ranks of the petted and cosseted bum class to the ranks of the productive members of society.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:08
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Also one of the other great tragedies of the fostercare system is that it is disproportionately full of lgbtq kids and it functionally exists at this point to punish them. When I was in group homes, fully half of the kids were queer and a vastly higher than statistically average amount were trans.Uncleanly Cleric posted:You think my brother or I were in school that year? Look getting placed with some alcoholic pedophile who is friends with several cops would've been vastly better than having to live with parents who loved you even though they were struggling to provide a permanent roof at the time
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Jan 29, 2019 00:08
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Seph posted:So what sort of fundamental obligations does a parent have to their child? I'd argue food, shelter (could be a car, or some sort of encampment, not necessarily a house) and education. If they're failing to provide all three then they're not fit to be a parent IMO. Do you disagree with any of that?
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Jan 29, 2019 00:08
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Our justice system is such a mess with punishment being the goal instead of rehabilitation that it will not solve any issue for the better. Having it focus on you if you are poor is only going to have negative results. Throwing someone into that for the crime of having truant kids is monstrous since it's about signalling how badass you are on "criminals" not actually helping families.
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Jan 29, 2019 00:08
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https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1089848173395349509 per my quick scan this looks to be the closest thing I've seen Kristol weigh in on Venezuela in the past week this must be a very conflicting, trying time for him
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Jan 29, 2019 00:09
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Seph posted:The foster program certainly has its flaws, don't get me wrong, but I'd almost certainly say it's better than a homeless mother who isn't looking out for their child. The state should absolutely take every possible measure to help parents get their kids to school, but at some point responsibility has to fall onto the parent. If they are unable or unwilling to get their child to school I think they are unfit to be a parent in general. Right, the state should punish parents that force their children to stay home from school so they can help them make meth or something. That's generally not the common thing that is going on. It's usually parents struggling to keep their family together and afloat in a rigged system that helps contribute to their problems.
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